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https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...nuyens-due-to-breaking-contract-with-old-team
"Originally it was thrown out as Van Aert claimed he thought Nuyens had defaulted and he could leave the team without paying the severance fee."
I believe it's been appealed again, but if the contract was broken, then compensation is the normal procedure. If Cian has broken his contract, it's the same thing. The Labour Laws are for people to work where they will, but contract law is second only to the ten commandments.
- Jan 29, 2021
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Cian uijdtbroeks doesn't want to waste is last year at Bora, launching roglic for his epica attacks in the last 500 meters 😂
Armchair Cyclist
Moderator
- Mar 22, 2010
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He didn't say that they are unpopular among all echelons: not popular among all, is what he said.
Jasper Philipsen didn't win every race he entered this year: that doesn't mean he lost all of them, or that he didn't win more than anyone else.
- May 29, 2019
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@Rob5091
Your original claim went in the direction on how Cian will automatically win this case, due to labour law. But that is simply not true. And that is not confirmed in the article you linked and the text you bolded. That text says the court initially sided with van Aert, due to believing Nuyens had defaulted. Basically gone out of business and hence contract to be terminated. But after it was established Nuyens didn't defaulted the court basically backed Nuyens. Now this decision, regarding van Aert, can still end up both ways. We'll see on what the court will decide. And Austrian courts can then again rule differently. We will know in a couple of years from now. Unless both teams reach an agreement in December or if UCI sorts this mess out. The most elegant solution in my opinion is for Visma to pay for Cian one third of what they got for Rogla. And then it's settled. All other options will be worse. Legal fees alone are enough to stop this madness. Lets see if they agree.
Your original claim went in the direction on how Cian will automatically win this case, due to labour law. But that is simply not true. And that is not confirmed in the article you linked and the text you bolded. That text says the court initially sided with van Aert, due to believing Nuyens had defaulted. Basically gone out of business and hence contract to be terminated. But after it was established Nuyens didn't defaulted the court basically backed Nuyens. Now this decision, regarding van Aert, can still end up both ways. We'll see on what the court will decide. And Austrian courts can then again rule differently. We will know in a couple of years from now. Unless both teams reach an agreement in December or if UCI sorts this mess out. The most elegant solution in my opinion is for Visma to pay for Cian one third of what they got for Rogla. And then it's settled. All other options will be worse. Legal fees alone are enough to stop this madness. Lets see if they agree.
- May 19, 2023
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Without an agent and happy to negotiate for himself, his apparent agreed salary was €100,000, far below what a Tour de l’Avenir winner would normally command, especially in this day and age of youth-focused recruitment. So, when Uijtdebroeks started publicly displaying his unhappiness, it wasn’t just teams who took notice, but also the super agent Alex Carera, who has more than 50 professional riders on his books, including Tadej Pogačar.
escapecollective.com
Blank-kitted Uijtdebroeks arrives at Visma camp amid Bora bullying allegations
Allegations and denials of bullying, secret WhatsApp groups and the most intrigue a blank set of training kit has possibly ever had.
escapecollective.com
Last edited:
- Aug 14, 2012
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⁴
Now I'm curious to see what were the numbers given by Trek to Albert Philipsen for a 4 year pro contract when he isn't even a 2nd year junior.
This doesn't make any sense because his contract was signed long before he even won Tour de l'Avenir. No one but himself is at fault for signing a three year contract as a neo-pro, when the norm is two years.
Now I'm curious to see what were the numbers given by Trek to Albert Philipsen for a 4 year pro contract when he isn't even a 2nd year junior.
- May 29, 2019
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Exactly. If it's more or less about (more) money, highly likely. Then Bora is entitled for some of that too. A million is fair. Considering all circumstances involved.
- Aug 14, 2012
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And honestly, what exactly can he sayagainst Bora's support in the Vuelta? The plan was always, from what I remember reading here since long before Romandie, to have a free role in the Vuelta while the team leader would be Vlasov.
This is even corroborated by Cian's own words during the Vuelta first week.
"Bora-Hansgrohe sent Uijtdebroeks into the Vuelta as an apprentice to climber captains Aleksandr Vlasov, Sergio Higuita, and Emanuel Buchmann."
“Everything is new to me. So it’s hard for me to predict how it will go. But I can already say that I get a free role within the team,” Uijtdebroeks said.
“If I could choose myself, I would take it day by day, without too much pressure, but try to go for a GC,” he said ahead of the Vuelta last week.
velo.outsideonline.com
Can't say Bora has done anything wrong during the Vuelta, according to their pre-race plan. Yes, Vlasov might not have helped him but as team leader that was not exactly expected from him. But on the other hand, I don't remember anyone asking Uijtdebroeks to sacrifice his own race in favor of Vlasov, precisely what would be expected of someone who has a free role.
This is even corroborated by Cian's own words during the Vuelta first week.
"Bora-Hansgrohe sent Uijtdebroeks into the Vuelta as an apprentice to climber captains Aleksandr Vlasov, Sergio Higuita, and Emanuel Buchmann."
“Everything is new to me. So it’s hard for me to predict how it will go. But I can already say that I get a free role within the team,” Uijtdebroeks said.
“If I could choose myself, I would take it day by day, without too much pressure, but try to go for a GC,” he said ahead of the Vuelta last week.
Stand aside, Evenepoel: Cian Uijtdebroeks steps up as next Belgian sensation of the Vuelta a España
20-year-old grand tour rookie stunned in the Vuelta's opening summit finish and is promising a lot more to come.
velo.outsideonline.com
Can't say Bora has done anything wrong during the Vuelta, according to their pre-race plan. Yes, Vlasov might not have helped him but as team leader that was not exactly expected from him. But on the other hand, I don't remember anyone asking Uijtdebroeks to sacrifice his own race in favor of Vlasov, precisely what would be expected of someone who has a free role.
- Apr 15, 2014
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No, in any professional environment, such behaviour would be deemed completely unacceptable. Creating a chat group to talk behind a teammate's back is simply disgusting and should not be tolerated by any manager.
- May 29, 2019
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I fully agree with that still it has to be true. That is based on:
Cian Uijtdebroeks trains with Jumbo-Visma as Bora-Hansgrohe deny bullying claims
Contract dispute escalates as UCI say 'applicable rules will be enforced'
www.cyclingnews.com
So i read that as Thijs Zonneveld doesn't know for sure? He is thinking out loud? May have?
As for the team management:
So was management involved or was it reported to the management for bullying to occur? And Eisel is lying?
All in all and unless there was some systematic bulling involved. I don't believe that are grounds for contract termination. If that is what they are aiming at. But lets leave this one to the UCI commission. There such evidence can be presented.
- Feb 20, 2010
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"a bit dodgy" is pretty unheard of in the world of sports agents. Most of them are full on, as dodgy as it can get, cut-throat, scum of the earth stuff. They filter out the ones with any kind of morals or sense of guilt or empathy early.
- Jul 16, 2015
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Was the chat created specifically to talk about Uijtdebroeks behind his back? Or was he just mentioned during a conversation? There's a huge difference.
That's 'if' it even happened at all. There's nuance & layer upon layer of necessary context in such cases. And different viewpoints as well.
Their job is to represent their clients against team owners who would like to sign them for the smallest amount of money they can get away with, or in the case of women's cycling, ride for free or even pay their own way. You don't want to take a knife to a gun fight, as the saying goes.
- May 29, 2019
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I am OK with Bora getting 0 if some sort of systematic bullying was presented and management knew and did nothing about it. But if this is just some sort of smear campaign against Bora. Then i support compensation of 1 million and full 600k in fines. We'll see.
- Sep 12, 2022
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I’ll listen to the podcast tomorrow to properly translate what the journalist said. Maybe it’s being blown out of proportion by sensational media
- May 29, 2019
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Bullying is a sensitive subject and i feel it deserves all the attention. So best to leave this to commissions and evidence, then forums. And after to discuss the outcome.
Regardless of bullying what in my opinion (also) happened is Cian wasn't happy with his salary, got an agent that couldn't negotiate more at Bora, agent went to Visma and got a better offer. The only problem being Bora not willing to let Cian go. Especially not for 100k. And then both Visma and the agent decided to play hard ball. They likely don't even care if they get sued. From this point of view i feel that Bora is at fault here. Put in impossible position. So in my opinion UCI, unless corrupted, won't allow it.
Regardless of bullying what in my opinion (also) happened is Cian wasn't happy with his salary, got an agent that couldn't negotiate more at Bora, agent went to Visma and got a better offer. The only problem being Bora not willing to let Cian go. Especially not for 100k. And then both Visma and the agent decided to play hard ball. They likely don't even care if they get sued. From this point of view i feel that Bora is at fault here. Put in impossible position. So in my opinion UCI, unless corrupted, won't allow it.
ManicJack
BANNED
- Apr 4, 2023
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If it was about money I think he would’ve earned more at INEOS or Lidl-Trek
- May 29, 2019
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What would you like to discuss then? A journalist suggesting something may have happened?
- May 29, 2019
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Would in your opinion INEOS or Lidl-Trek reach an agreement with Bora before or after signing Cian? With after i mean they would just sign him and say he is with us now. The rest can go ...
- Feb 20, 2010
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Mino Raiola and Jorge Mendes, modern day Robin Hoods.
- Sep 12, 2022
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I don’t need to give my opinion, apparently both of them reached an agreement with Bora first. But Cian didn’t want to
- May 29, 2019
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Source? For me to read first what we are talking about. Before giving my opinion.
- Sep 5, 2020
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Cian was probably pain in the butt for mechanics. Complained all the time about his setup and he threw them publicly under the bus for not preparing his bikes right. A first year pro with no result by the way.
So i would bet if there was any Whatsapp chat group created, it was by supporting staff having enough of his ***.
So i would bet if there was any Whatsapp chat group created, it was by supporting staff having enough of his ***.
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