Circ

[Franklin]

90 per cent of TUEs were used for performance-enhancing reason

Such abuse. The one thing that should have come out of the report is basically that TUE should not be allowed. And if that means some riders aren't allowed to ride because of it then that's unfortunate.

But 90% is a joke.

Only 16 riders? The reasoned decision which just went after Armstrong suspended almost as many.

I think European law would make a ban on TUEs extremely hard. Riders do have rights (and I'd say that's a good thing). I'd wonder how you would react if you were "unfortunately" being sent home due to illness/injury which is easily contained by simple medicine.

The answer should be better monitoring and less rubberstamping TUEs. Blanket banning TUEs is ridiculous.

 

[Franklin]

Page 60

"One Doctor.....It was reported that this had been a planned approach by that group's management."

Could Brian Cookson OBE ask Sir David Brailsford in a public forum to deny that the "group" referred to is Team Sky and inform the press that at the time of these actions, one Brian Cookson OBE was on the board of the holding company of Team Sky.

I have been one of the first here who has been hammering on how DB is a liar, but I'm at a loss what you would expect from that except more media circus and more ridiculing by us.

At best there's a small chance it's indeed his team and somehow is being uncovered in the future. At worst it's another team or won't be uncovered and you give DB another platform to do grandstanding.

Considering the latter is a pretty big chance I rather forego all this grandstanding from both sides.

 

[LaFlorecita]

So who could this be?

I dunno, but the last few sentences scream Giant-Alpecin to me however that is of course not a team below WT level

 

[sniper]

So who could this be?

could be Astana's continental team.
Vino being part of mpcc.

 

[sniper]

I wonder what Sniper thinks of Contador being protected?.

it seems telling that this is (at least according to CN) the most spectacular bit of 'news' emerging from the report.

 

[heart_attack_man]

220 pages, and I can't imagine it's going to be worth my time reading it.

List of interviewees seems to provide some insight as to the usefulness of the entire thing.

And the wheel keeps turning.

 

[Pedaaldanser]

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/circ-suggests-that-doping-has-gone-underground-with-micro-dosing-and-tue-abuse

Team Sky, we knew it all along!

One doctor stated that it was impossible to lose the weight that some riders achieve without assistance, and that the TUE is taken advantage of to enable this practice. He stated that riders use corticoids to "lean out" i.e. to lose weight quickly, and keep it off, without losing power. By way of example he explained that to lose 4kg in 4 weeks by using corticoids would provide a 7% power/weight improvement.

He added that when used in large quantities and in conjunction with other substances, they supported performance gains. Another doctor stated that some quite recent big wins on the UCI WorldTour were as a result, in part, of some members of the team all using corticoids to get their weight down to support the individual who won (who also used the same weight-loss technique). It was reported that this had been a planned approach by that group's management.

 

[sniper]

I have been one of the first here who has been hammering on how DB is a liar, but I'm at a loss what you would expect from that except more media circus and more ridiculing by us.

At best there's a small chance it's indeed his team and somehow is being uncovered in the future. At worst it's another team or won't be uncovered and you give DB another platform to do grandstanding.

Considering the latter is a pretty big chance I rather forego all this grandstanding from both sides.

really?
it's pretty clear that it's about Team Sky.
admittedly, he still has enough scope there to deny it's about his team, but seems to me that it could be pretty uncomfortable for Brailsford to be faced with that question publicly.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/circ-suggests-that-doping-has-gone-underground-with-micro-dosing-and-tue-abuse

Team Sky, we knew it all along!

One doctor stated that it was impossible to lose the weight that some riders achieve without assistance, and that the TUE is taken advantage of to enable this practice. He stated that riders use corticoids to "lean out" i.e. to lose weight quickly, and keep it off, without losing power. By way of example he explained that to lose 4kg in 4 weeks by using corticoids would provide a 7% power/weight improvement.

He added that when used in large quantities and in conjunction with other substances, they supported performance gains. Another doctor stated that some quite recent big wins on the UCI WorldTour were as a result, in part, of some members of the team all using corticoids to get their weight down to support the individual who won (who also used the same weight-loss technique). It was reported that this had been a planned approach by that group's management.

I think Ettix Quick Step qualifies too. Have you seen Tom Boonen recently ? He's one scary dude. An anorexic top model dress would fit him.

 

[WildspokeJoe]

I think European law would make a ban on TUEs extremely hard. Riders do have rights (and I'd say that's a good thing). I'd wonder how you would react if you were "unfortunately" being sent home due to illness/injury which is easily contained by simple medicine.

The answer should be better monitoring and less rubberstamping TUEs. Blanket banning TUEs is ridiculous.

90%. That's what's ridiculous. No, that's obscene. 9 out of EVERY 10 TUEs are bogus. The answer I want to know is what is the ONE TUEs that is seen as OK.

You're looking at it as rational, honest person but CLEARLY the system is being abused and is broken. If they really, really, want to get rid of the problem, (I'm not sure anymore) they have to make radical changes and change the culture.

Jonathan Vaughters was not allowed to continue when he had a bee sting during one of his Tour rides. It stunk for JV but I think at the time his DS was like we have to be strict on this and follow the rules. So to your point it was unfortunate but nothing more.

 

[sniper]

I think Ettix Quick Step qualifies too. Have you seen Tom Boonen recently ? He's one scary dude. An anorexic top model dress would fit him.

perhaps, but nowhere near as clear-cut as team sky.
big recent wins
huge team effort.
sounds like Sky 2012.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/circ-suggests-that-doping-has-gone-underground-with-micro-dosing-and-tue-abuse

Team Sky, we knew it all along!

One doctor stated that it was impossible to lose the weight that some riders achieve without assistance, and that the TUE is taken advantage of to enable this practice. He stated that riders use corticoids to "lean out" i.e. to lose weight quickly, and keep it off, without losing power. By way of example he explained that to lose 4kg in 4 weeks by using corticoids would provide a 7% power/weight improvement.

He added that when used in large quantities and in conjunction with other substances, they supported performance gains. Another doctor stated that some quite recent big wins on the UCI WorldTour were as a result, in part, of some members of the team all using corticoids to get their weight down to support the individual who won (who also used the same weight-loss technique). It was reported that this had been a planned approach by that group's management.

Sky didn't win anything big "quite recently" and certainly not on the UCI WorldTour. Just saying.

 

[deValtos]

The answer I want to know is what is the ONE TUEs that is seen as OK.

Team Novo Nordisk make up the other 10%

 

[Carstenbf]

it seems telling that this is (at least according to CN) the most spectacular bit of 'news' emerging from the report.

Indeed. My thoughts exactly.

 

[jens_attacks]

So who could this be?

gianni savio. i love him

androids 4 evaaaa

 

[Franklin]

90%. That's what's ridiculous. No, that's obscene. 9 out of EVERY 10 TUEs are bogus. The answer I want to know is what is the ONE TUEs that is seen as OK.

You're looking at it as rational, honest person but CLEARLY the system is being abused and is broken. If they really, really, want to get rid of the problem, (I'm not sure anymore) they have to make radical changes and change the culture.

Jonathan Vaughters was not allowed to continue when he had a bee sting during one of his Tour rides. It stunk for JV but I think at the time his DS was like we have to be strict on this and follow the rules. So to your point it was unfortunate but nothing more.

Hey, I agree... but a blanket ban is simply not in the cards.

Heck, personally I would love an orwellian solution... and then I realise it's a very good thing I'm not king of the world

 

[Franklin]

really?
it's pretty clear that it's about Team Sky.

Sorry, could be any team. Indeed considering Sky I'd bet they managed to keep out of this hooplah.

I know that any mention of weightloss makes everyony jump up and down and think of Sky, but most teams have extremely thin riders. Sky certainly was one of the first (Rasmussen was a trendsetting guy) and probably most aggressive, but I'm willing to bet every team exploits those Tue's.

And then considering the monetary fist of Sky I'm not as hopeful as you are that someone is spilling any beans.

Again: I am as convinced as anyone about Sky and it's practice. I'm just a bit more realistic on shizzle hitting the fan. It took extreme measures to unveil USPS and they were clearly a lot less careful (loose gun Landis, much tweetage between riders, I think they learnt their lessons).

No, I fear very much that the end of this story is going to be "We wish every team was more as Sky".

 

[sniper]

Sorry, could be any team. Indeed considering Sky I'd bet they managed to keep out of this hooplah.

I know that any mention of weightloss makes everyony jump up and down and think of Sky, but most teams have extremely thin riders. Sky certainly was one of the first (Rasmussen was a trendsetting guy) and probably most aggressive, but I'm willing to bet every team exploits those Tue's.

And then considering the monetary fist of Sky I'm not as hopeful as you are that someone is spilling any beans.

Again: I am as convinced as anyone about Sky and it's practice. I'm just a bit more realistic on shizzle hitting the fan. It took extreme measures to unveil USPS and they were clearly a lot less careful (loose gun Landis, much tweetage between riders, I think they learnt their lessons).

No, I fear very much that the end of this story is going to be "We wish every team was more as Sky".

fair points.
but you'll agree that Sky seems the most obvious.
big recent WT wins (plural), team domination, and the well-documented weight loss.
what other team did you have in mind for which the weight loss is so well documented?

the point is: Sky 2012 seems definitely a (perhaps the most) plausible candidate, so even in the case that it isn't Sky who is implied here, i'd love to see Brailsford being asked about it publicly. Good luck to him trying to explain why it wasn't Sky and how they managed the weight loss if not with corticoids.
It could at least put a nice blush on his face.

 

[Franklin]

No contention that the profile fits Sky like a glove

But I'm not that optimistic that they have been fingered. Let's hope I'm being a sourpuss for no reason.

Other teams?

Garmin
Rabobank
It's successor Belkin
Katyusha
Astana
QS
Etc.

Every team has shed kilo's since 2006. I'd say Rasmussen really was the first to drive it into crazy territories. As teams noticed that it could change a good pro to a GT winner it triggered a deluge of starving riders. I mean, it surprised everyone, it stands to reason it triggered copying. Rasmussen was a huge bloodcharger, but it was his weight that made him stand out. Bloodcharging itself is not a huge advantage among the top(everyone knows the trick).

But this is major speculation from my side.

 

[neineinei]

could be Astana's continental team.
Vino being part of mpcc.

Don't think Vino can be said to be a senior person in MPCC. But maybe CIRC thinks so.

President
Roger LEGEAY

Delegated Vice-President
Iwan Spekenbrink, Argos-Shimano

Vice-President
Yvon Sanquer, Cofidis

Treasurer
Vincent Lavenu, AG2R La Mondiale

Assistant treasurer
Marc Sergeant, Lotto Belisol

Secretary
Philippe Senmartin

Assistant secretary
Serge Beucherie, IAM Cycling

Member
Gianni Savio, Androni Giocattoli

Member
Christophe Brandt, Color Code-Biowanze

http://mpcc.fr/index.php/en/mpcc-uk

edit:

Riders and team staff from Androni Giocattoli-Venezuela recently signed an anti-doping contract that will levy a fine on anyone who violates the Italian Professional Continental squad's zero-tolerance policy.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/new...li-implement-fine-for-anti-doping-infractions

And Francesco Reda got his ban cut by CIRC.

One more edit:

And CIRC criticizes USADA for publishing the reasoned decision on the web, with redactions, in the same report where they write:

It also appears that team organised doping is more likely still to take place at lower levels of competition, where anti-doping efforts are less concentrated. The Commission was told of a team below the UCI WorldTour recently involved in doping. It was claimed that the team manager and sports director brought a nutritionist into the team who advised a
selected group of riders within the team on a doping programme. The instructions were to administer 1000 ml of EPO Zeta every second day after 11pm at night, and alternate in the winter with HGH and Lutrelef, a hormone. Their haematocrit levels were to be tested every third day, and amounts of EPO Zeta reduced to 500 ml as the season approached. The nutritionist owned a gym, through which substances were procured from Eastern
Europe. Other riders were said to have procured substances via a hospital and a pharmacy more locally. It was further explained that the team manager was also a senior person in a prominent anti-doping movement, and had later on introduced strong antidoping clauses in the team contracts, including the imposition of significant fines for anyone caught doping.

 

[coinneach]

Hey, I agree... but a blanket ban is simply not in the cards.

We don't NEED a ban, we need transparency.

No hiding behind "medical confidentiality" anymore.....if you are a proteam rider, all proscription medication should be made public.....if you don't like that, there are plenty others would would gladly sacrifice the lack of privacy for the oppertunity to race clean

 

[Franklin]

Sorry Coineach, your demand for full transparency is ridiculous.

Would you be okay if your family hears of this anti-Herpes medicine you are prescribed? Are you okay with your boss knowing you are being prescribed Cortisones due to an inflammation you suffered because of your tennis-hobby? Your contract partner learns about your anti-depressant prescription just in this critical week of negotiations?

I'd say that these lists need to be confidentially reviewed by an independent medical board. Full transparency is way to invasive.

 

[sniper]

Don't think Vino can be said to be a senior person in MPCC. But maybe CIRC thinks so.

President
Roger LEGEAY

Delegated Vice-President
Iwan Spekenbrink, Argos-Shimano

Vice-President
Yvon Sanquer, Cofidis

Treasurer
Vincent Lavenu, AG2R La Mondiale

Assistant treasurer
Marc Sergeant, Lotto Belisol

Secretary
Philippe Senmartin

Assistant secretary
Serge Beucherie, IAM Cycling

Member
Gianni Savio, Androni Giocattoli

Member
Christophe Brandt, Color Code-Biowanze

http://mpcc.fr/index.php/en/mpcc-uk

edit:



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/new...li-implement-fine-for-anti-doping-infractions

And Francesco Reda got his ban cut by CIRC.

One more edit:

And CIRC criticizes USADA for publishing the reasoned decision on the web, with redactions, in the same report where they write:

excellent...

 

[BeagRigh]

Me thinks Savio has some questions to answer!

Now we just need a journalist with the balls to ask ...

 

[King Boonen]

My initial reaction:

loads of laughter followed by "F**k pro-cycling."


It's not really changed, I'm just glad I can separate all this from the racing, accept it and watch it for the pure enjoyment.

Oh, I've lost any faith I had left in Cookson.