Clean Colombians? (Arkea investigation page 27)

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The Hitch said:
A theory that makes no sense since the speeds he is climbing at show he could win the TDF even if others were doping.
If you read the context of my reply, you will see that it is in response to Anglos claiming to be clean while others are not, it what way does Froome imply that others he is competing againt are not, pehaps you could woulkd like to back up Trevim's original point and show how Froome implies others are not, or where you going futher off topic
 
Grupetto1 said:
"When I was young, I always wanted to watch it, inspired by [Lance] Armstrong and [Santiago] Botero." Wonder how badly Wiggins would get crucified if he said this not Betancur
Betancur is talking about when he was young. Long before he would have known Armstrong doped. He said he was his inspiration. How is that comparable to someone who knew Armstrong doped, defending him, working with him, becoming best friends with him, bullying people who dare speak up against him, while claiming to be fighting for clean cycling:confused:

Some people seem tragically devoid of logic. A rider hailed as some anti doping hero gets legitimately attacked for taking the side of the biggest doping fraud in history, and bitter wiggins fanboys spend the next years digging up any quote that contains the words "Lance" or "Armstrong", and regardless of what is actually being said, trying to force comparisons with what Wiggins did to make it look accidental or normal or whatever.

I still remember del digging up a quote from Pinnoti where he attacks Armstrong for being a doper, editing out a bunch of words and presenting the edited version to make it look like Pinotti was "praising lance just like wiggins":rolleyes:

The fact that so many of the believers, at least on here, are either a) dishonest or b) devoid of logic, (whicever it is) simply reinforces my belief that Sky are doping.

Ps, I didn't bring up wiggins in this thread.
 
The Hitch said:
Betancur is talking about when he was young. Long before he would have known Armstrong doped. He said he was his inspiration. How is that comparable to someone who knew Armstrong doped, defending him, working with him, becoming best friends with him, bullying people who dare speak up against him, while claiming to be fighting for clean cycling:confused:

Some people seem tragically devoid of logic. A rider hailed as some anti doping hero gets legitimately attacked for taking the side of the biggest doping fraud in history, and bitter wiggins fanboys spend the next years digging up any quote that contains the words "Lance" or "Armstrong", and regardless of what is actually being said, trying to force comparisons with what Wiggins did to make it look accidental or normal or whatever.

I still remember del digging up a quote from Pinnoti where he attacks Armstrong for being a doper, editing out a bunch of words and presenting the edited version to make it look like Pinotti was "praising lance just like wiggins":rolleyes:

The fact that so many of the believers, at least on here, are either a) dishonest or b) devoid of logic, (whicever it is) simply reinforces my belief that Sky are doping.

Ps, I didn't bring up wiggins in this thread.
There you go, misrepresenting what i said again, you certainly have panache for that

Mods can you do something about Hitch bringing me up off topic all the time with complete fabrications
 
Grupetto1 said:
"When I was young, I always wanted to watch it, inspired by [Lance] Armstrong and [Santiago] Botero." Wonder how badly Wiggins would get crucified if he said this not Betancur
come on man, now you are nitpicking...i condemn doping, but back then i thought Lance was an inspiration...now because he says it you are going nuts about it.

carlos has dominated cycling ever since he got into a bike...yeah he seems to lack discipline and not too good with what he says but that does not mean he dopes.

this whole thread is like a witch hunt with the new generation of colombian talent...they are not killing anyone except in the terrain that they are good at (climbing), so why not enjoy their talent until something concrete comes out.
 
gmedina said:
so why not enjoy their talent until something concrete comes out.
Is it talent? How do you know? Remember this is a sports federation that actively protected a sports fraud. This is also a sport with national federations that have protected their doped athletes too. Meanwhile, the federation and everyone involved on the money end want desperately to hang onto the idea a vaguely fair game is being played. When it is very likely not the case.

Finally, one of the many, many problems with doping is the consequences of uncontrolled human experimentation aren't known until some time much later.

Is uncontrolled human experimentation what the cool kids are doing these days?
 
Grupetto1 said:
"When I was young, I always wanted to watch it, inspired by [Lance] Armstrong and [Santiago] Botero." Wonder how badly Wiggins would get crucified if he said this not Betancur
Poor Bradley is so misunderstood and set upon.:( I'm quite certain that by utilizing the search feature you could find criticism of Betancur's statement but of course not on the same level as Wiggins since he is much higher profile.
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
no. I know 100% quintana is clean. anyone that knows saldarriaga even slightly and knows his opinion about quintana and doping I suppose would think the same. also quintana's own opinion about doping is strong but he's not anglophone type attention ***** constantly shouting he's clean(garmin) which only adds to his believability to me. betancurt is very close in talent to quintana. maybe even on par. they are different type of riders. but betancurt was always incredible rider. I see nothing suspicious in him.
That's fine that you like NQ. I've noted I do not find him suspect. I've only commented on Betancur, who you keep calling betancurt and find nothing suspicious about (which makes me suspicious that you might be smoking crack)
 
Grupetto1 said:
"When I was young, I always wanted to watch it, inspired by [Lance] Armstrong and [Santiago] Botero." Wonder how badly Wiggins would get crucified if he said this not Betancur
Wiggins wasn't 15 years old in 2005, so you would expect him to get grilled and rightfully so.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Grupetto1 said:
"When I was young, I always wanted to watch it, inspired by [Lance] Armstrong and [Santiago] Botero." Wonder how badly Wiggins would get crucified if he said this not Betancur
to understand thsi you need to understand cycling in colombia. I'm sure as a kid betancurt rarely watched any tour de france and when he saw it, it was lance and botero in the tour. most colombian cyclists only know 2 or 3 riders in europe. contador, armstrong are two of them. and armstrong was a hero when betancurt was young, so what is wrong with that? he was 9 years old when armstrong was dominating the tour. he's supposed to know all this then?
 
Mar 31, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
Is it talent? How do you know? Remember this is a sports federation that actively protected a sports fraud. This is also a sport with national federations that have protected their doped athletes too. Meanwhile, the federation and everyone involved on the money end want desperately to hang onto the idea a vaguely fair game is being played. When it is very likely not the case.

Finally, one of the many, many problems with doping is the consequences of uncontrolled human experimentation aren't known until some time much later.

Is uncontrolled human experimentation what the cool kids are doing these days?
so he's not talented because his national federation is a fraud? what kind of ridiuclous argument is that?
 
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Ripper said:
That's fine that you like NQ. I've noted I do not find him suspect. I've only commented on Betancur, who you keep calling betancurt and find nothing suspicious about (which makes me suspicious that you might be smoking crack)
I"m sure I know much more about colombian doping scene than you will ever do so it's useless for you to try and get your head around this.
 
DirtyWorks said:
Is it talent? How do you know? Remember this is a sports federation that actively protected a sports fraud. This is also a sport with national federations that have protected their doped athletes too. Meanwhile, the federation and everyone involved on the money end want desperately to hang onto the idea a vaguely fair game is being played. When it is very likely not the case.

Finally, one of the many, many problems with doping is the consequences of uncontrolled human experimentation aren't known until some time much later.

Is uncontrolled human experimentation what the cool kids are doing these days?
what money? do you think there is millions and millions of dollars to be made while racing IN Colombia? Man, some teams don't even have enough tt bikes for every team member (remember when when two Colombian teams barely made it to the 2011 USA Pro Challenge)

we can't deny that Colombians have a innate ability to climb (due to many factors). we can't also deny that yes, there is doping in Colombia (just look at the people that race El Clasico or La Vuelta a Colombia). However, I think that his wave of Colombian talent racing in Europe is clean until proven otherwise.

now, why pick on Betancur? why not pick on Costa? yeah, Betancur won the overall in PN, but Costa was right there, less than a wheel behind...and I don't see anyone saying anything about the current world champion.....bunch of hypocrites
 
Oh the good old racism card. . . you seem to be under the impression that people around here think Costa "rode for Abarca now rides for Saroni and Maxtin" is clean.

There is no discussion about it because no one will defend him.

Between Nairo just itt'd faster than Contador, Kreuziger and Peraud, i am guess i am being a racist for saying that is a performance worthy of someone riding for Abarca.
 
Parrulo said:
Oh the good old racism card. . . you seem to be under the impression that people around here think Costa "rode for Abarca now rides for Saroni and Maxtin" is clean.

There is no discussion about it because no one will defend him.

Between Nairo just itt'd faster than Contador, Kreuziger and Peraud, i am guess i am being a racist for saying that is a performance worthy of someone riding for Abarca.
racism...who is talking about racism? i thought people were picking on betancur just because he said he was inspired by lance and botero when he was a kid.

now, quintana...wow two full seconds faster than contador (who had already had the race in his pocket) on a 9km time trial....yeah that screams doping...come on!!!
 
zigmeister said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/does-colombias-anti-doping-stand-up-to-scrutiny


I guess this means NO. They should not be considered clean. And now with some revelations with Heneo etc..and other S.american/Columbians getting busted this year....we have answers.
Why not considered clean? Compared to other federations (like Spanish, French, Italian, British), without doing in any research, I bet Colombians have had fewer doping cases in the pro peloton level.

Yes there is doping going on in Colombia (especially in La Vuelta a Colombia, and Clasico RCN) but that doesn't mean that everyone does it. I've race cat 3 here in NYC, and have seen some people doping (from testosterone to EPO...in a effing cat 3 race!!!!)...does that mean that I should considered that all the american riders (like TJVG) are not clean? Hell no!!!

You know what, this thread is BS, and should be closed...we can't really generalized that all Colombians are clean or dope. The same for any federation....I don't see a thread with "Are [Spanish/British/Italians] considered clean?". In this case, there is something going on with Henao, that should be talked about (and there is a thread for that) Henao does not represent all the excellent colombian talent that pro cycling has seen (from early on with monsters like Lucho Herrera, Soler and now with the likes of Quintana and Uran). To generalize and tarnish the reputation of other Colombian talent because one anomaly in Henao's number is just wrong.
 
Well if the WADA lab opened in Bogata only opened in 2011, and only started testing blood in 2013.

The absence of any doping cases for Columbian residents, is hardly a cause for celebration, or proof of anything other than a lack of testing.
 

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