Clean Colombians? (Arkea investigation page 27)

[gmedina]

So does that mean Quintana wasn't OOC tested in the two months that he spent in Colombia before the Tour last year?

What an absolute farce if true.

well, only 3 OOC blood tests in Spain in 2012....almost everyone goes and trains in Spain.....what a farce!!!! /s

 

[bigcog]

well, only 3 OOC blood tests in Spain in 2012....almost everyone goes and trains in Spain.....what a farce!!!! /s

Why do you think Armstrong, Hamiliton etc based themselves in Girona. Lack of testing and access to dodgy doctors and pharmaceuticals.

 

[JRanton]

well, only 3 OOC blood tests in Spain in 2012....almost everyone goes and trains in Spain.....what a farce!!!! /s

It's absolutely ridiculous. I already had very little faith in the system but even I presumed it was better than this.

Sorry, but the idea of a clean rider winning the Tour de France or any other grand tour in this environment is completely absurd.

 

[DirtyWorks]

well, only 3 OOC blood tests in Spain in 2012....almost everyone goes and trains in Spain.....what a farce!!!! /s

Where an athlete lives regardless of where their license is issued is the whole reason for ADAMS. Living in Spain is immaterial to testing frequency. It would only be athletes with Spanish licenses that would benefit from the lack of testing.


Again, I'm not sure why the idea lives on that there are vigorous anti-doping rules and therefore a vigorous anti-doping limits. There are lots of anti-doping rules, but with so many holes and authority still concentrated on the production (show business) side of Olympic sports that is theater.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Why do you think Armstrong, Hamiliton etc based themselves in Girona. Lack of testing and access to dodgy doctors and pharmaceuticals.

This is a good example of one of the misconceptions of anti-doping testing.

The lack of testing was the possible anti-doping authorities never requesting any tests. Some examples of anti-doping authorities in this case would be a race organizer, USA Cycling, the UCI.

We know USA Cycling has no problem with doping and will protect their most valuable riders. Even if there was a positive, the anti-doping authority is not required to open a case.

Never tested positive!

 

[TheGame]

well, only 3 OOC blood tests in Spain in 2012....almost everyone goes and trains in Spain.....what a farce!!!! /s

Um no. 3 carried out by the RFEC. Most of the ABP samples collected in Spain would have falled under the banner of UCI samples of which there were more than 3000.

RFEC collect the samples on behalf of the UCI, its recorded as a UCI sample. Not a Spanish Federation sample.

Benson has got that a little wrong, or is being a bit misleading.

Colombia on the other hand had no ABP registered lab in 2012.

And

"one can ascertain that out-of-competition blood tests are well below the in-competition number"

wrong.

 

[gmedina]

Um no. 3 carried out by the RFEC. Most of the ABP samples collected in Spain would have falled under the banner of UCI samples of which there were more than 3000.

RFEC collect the samples on behalf of the UCI, its recorded as a UCI sample. Not a Spanish Federation sample.

Benson has got that a little wrong, or is being a bit misleading.

Colombia on the other hand had no ABP registered lab in 2012.

And



wrong.

no accredited lab in Colombia in 2012 means that there was lack of testing, does not mean that all Colombians dope because of the lack of testing. Also, some Colombian teams (i.e. Colombia Es Pasion) to do their own testing and were part of the bio passport.

 

[roundabout]

You know what, this thread is BS, and should be closed...we can't really generalized that all Colombians are clean or dope. The same for any federation....I don't see a thread with "Are [Spanish/British/Italians] considered clean?".

Uh, no.

When the thread started there was this rather naive idea that Colombians are somehow inherently better riders than the European flatlanders and their resurgence was based on the "natural" order of things being restored after the evil doping Euros cheated them throughout the 90's and 00's.

 

[TheGame]

no accredited lab in Colombia in 2012 means that there was lack of testing, does not mean that all Colombians dope because of the lack of testing. Also, some Colombian teams (i.e. Colombia Es Pasion) to do their own testing and were part of the bio passport.

no, lack of testing doesnt mean they are doping, but that wasn't your point.

Colombia es Pasion have their own Bio Passport, but its not a WADA or UCI verified passport, nor, prior to mid 2013 was it using an ABP approved lab.

Spain 800 test. Colombia None.

Now im back off to the other place before i get dragged in too deep

 

[gmedina]

Uh, no.

When the thread started there was this rather naive idea that Colombians are somehow inherently better riders than the European flatlanders and their resurgence was based on the "natural" order of things being restored after the evil doping Euros cheated them throughout the 90's and 00's.

read this: http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2012/06/victories-disappointments-and-how-epo.html

there are a bunch of accounts from some other sources that id happily provide after i get home...but i firmly believe that Colombians stopped dominating the climbs when EPO came into the picture

 

[roundabout]

Seems like he had his best year in 1987. Apart from the mention how he could not ride for himself, there is absolutely nothing about 1988-1990 in the interview.

Maybe he wasn't that good and 87 was just a blip.

 

[Benotti69]

Seems like he had his best year in 1987. Apart from the mention how he could not ride for himself, there is absolutely nothing about 1988-1990 in the interview.

Maybe he wasn't that good and 87 was just a blip.

Just like Roche.

Maybe he made some money and said f**k it.

 

[Escarabajo]

read this: http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2012/06/victories-disappointments-and-how-epo.html

there are a bunch of accounts from some other sources that id happily provide after i get home...but i firmly believe that Colombians stopped dominating the climbs when EPO came into the picture

There is a scientific explanation for that but that it does not mean that they don't dope. Just that they don't benefit as well as the European. Therefore they were no longer necessary in Europe.

 

[zigmeister]

Where did those stats come from on that chart?

Also, it is kind of useless unless it clarifies exactly what class/level of rider was tested during those times.

Were they all Pros or some Amateurs? Or were some of those USADA testing done down in Florida per the request of the Florida Clean Ride Fund, and the 10-14 test they do a year at a few races IC?? Or a few OC tests that were performed at somebody's request at the Pro or Amateur level?

Just wondering?? Maybe I missed that somewhere.

 

[neineinei]

no, lack of testing doesnt mean they are doping, but that wasn't your point.

Colombia es Pasion have their own Bio Passport, but its not a WADA or UCI verified passport, nor, prior to mid 2013 was it using an ABP approved lab.

Spain 800 test. Colombia None.

Now im back off to the other place before i get dragged in too deep

Just for clarity; the table are showing the ABP testing for all sports, not just cycling, so the 810 tests analyzed in Madrid and Barcelona probably are not all for cycling. Some of the tests analyzed in Spain might have been collected elsewhere too (maybe in Colombia for all we know). The number of ABP tests in cycling in Spain just isn't shown in the WADA testing report, but it is fair to assume that it is (a lot) higher than the number of ABP cycling tests taken in Colombia. We don't know that number either, but we do know that Henao and Uran wasn't OOC ABP tested there until October 2013, that the nearest lab that could handle ABP blood tests was in Salt Lake City (until the summer of 2013), that there are big logistical challenges in Colombia and that blood tests needs to be analyzed within 48 hours.

The numbers are from the WADA 2012 testing report

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Where did those stats come from on that chart?

Also, it is kind of useless unless it clarifies exactly what class/level of rider was tested during those times.

Were they all Pros or some Amateurs? Or were some of those USADA testing done down in Florida per the request of the Florida Clean Ride Fund, and the 10-14 test they do a year at a few races IC?? Or a few OC tests that were performed at somebody's request at the Pro or Amateur level?

Just wondering?? Maybe I missed that somewhere.

Since when were amateurs OOC tested?

 

[Big Doopie]

I questioned it a year ago when Quintana disappeared to columbia for two months before the tour. No races at all for two whole months before the tour. And then he is the revelation and finishes second.

Oh, but no one can question Quintana, the clinic darling... And, well, he's COLUMBIAN, and columbian's don't dope.

Then we hear there are no OOC tests in Columbia.

And now he's off to disappear and not race again before the giro.

What a freakin' joke.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

quintana is no doper. he has natural hematocrite of 49% and comes from saldarriaga school. the cleanest team and trainer in the world no doubt. quintana has nothing to gain from doping fysically. the whole reason colombians are starting to dominate cycling is because cycling is getting clean in europe. the 80s there were no super products either and the colombian got betetr with every year until epo came about.

 

[The Hitch]

no one can question Quintana, the clinic darling... And, well, he's COLUMBIAN, and columbian's don't dope.

Such transparent trolling. Pathetic.
And the double standards equally so.you know for sure that the guy 5 minutes back on gc is doping, but defend the guy who beat him, even though neither tested positive.

And it's Colombia.

 

[The Hitch]

quintana has nothing to gain from doping fysically.

You don't understand how doping works do you

 

[Benotti69]

I questioned it a year ago when Quintana disappeared to columbia for two months before the tour. No races at all for two whole months before the tour. And then he is the revelation and finishes second.

Oh, but no one can question Quintana, the clinic darling... And, well, he's COLUMBIAN, and columbian's don't dope.

Then we hear there are no OOC tests in Columbia.

And now he's off to disappear and not race again before the giro.

What a freakin' joke.

Dont need to test Colombians as everyone knows they dont dope

 

[mikeoneill]

a colombian marathoner just failed a drugs test in iten kenya

she got tested 3 times in a week

is claiming that her values are naturally high?

story rings a bell re:henao

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

You don't understand how doping works do you

let's say he has far less to gain than others.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

let's say he has far less to gain than others.

nor physiology. high hct means diddly squat in isolation. wow. just. wow. Vaughters has high natural Hct (allegedly) as an example of someone who was not that good despite this phenomenon.

 

[Escarabajo]

I questioned it a year ago when Quintana disappeared to columbia for two months before the tour. No races at all for two whole months before the tour. And then he is the revelation and finishes second.

Oh, but no one can question Quintana, the clinic darling... And, well, he's COLUMBIAN, and columbian's don't dope.

Then we hear there are no OOC tests in Columbia.

And now he's off to disappear and not race again before the giro.

What a freakin' joke.

You are too late to question him. because he has always been this good! Sorry. Be more alert.