Closing and Locking Threads

[ImmaculateKadence]

Why do mods lock threads if some users violate forum rules? The reason I ask is because often times I don't (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) get a chance to respond to the thread's original point. The mods here do an excellent job in keeping it together and letting things slide to a point, and I understand sometimes it's necessary to take action, but instead of editing posts and then locking the thread, why not delete the offensive comments and send that user a PM? I mean, why penalize us all? Is there a way mods can prevent certain users from posting in certain threads? Just curious.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Different mods have different powers. One mod may not be able to edit or delete posts, or may for some other reason find it easier just to close a thread than deal with it.

If you mean the Time Spent on CN thread, I tidied it up this morning with a great deal of deleting. I should have opened it then again, sorry. It is open again now.

Susan

 

[180mmCrank]

Good question - I can't speak for all mods but for myself...

I close a thread very rarely. My preference is to try and keep discussions on track. I may delete posts and or ask (PM) posters to desist from inappropriate comments. Sometimes a thread just goes toxic and the only option is to close it down.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

Thank you for responding. It was the Time Spent in CN thread I was referring to. I think it's a cool thread, especially for the forum's regulars. I don't know what was said, but considering past exchanges in these forums, it was probably necessary. I'm surprised a thread with that sort of topic could go sour; it seems pretty amiable to me, not polarizing at all. Thanks for re-opening.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

My method is usually to try to steer a thread back on track at least once. Then if it goes astray again, I may lock it. Threads that have no positive purpose from the get go or are created simply directed off-topic or to other members I will sometimes lock.

Understand that this isn't an either/or here. It's not like we're just locking threads and not deleting posts, or not sending PMs or giving infractions. All of that happens, and closing threads is often the last resort.

 

[gregod]

i am not sure if this is related, but i think a thread has disappeared or was erased.

a few days ago i posted a reply in a thread about a skipping chain in the bikes and gear forum. i went to check the thread this morning and can't find it. so, i looked in my "statistics" folder for my posts and that post is gone.

does anybody know what happened to that thread? was it removed for some reason?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This was a post and reply started in the (latest) LeMond thread - it started when Alpe suggested closing the thread as it had gone waaaay off topic and had little merit.

Because maybe one in ten posts here is about the original topic and what LeMond may have included in the 70,000 pages, and what impact that may have.

Nearly all of them are posts pointing fingers at him for doping, having an agenda against Lance, opinions on his personality, baseless accusations, rebuttals and challenges, or other off-topic posts about his life.

Then kill the 9 that are Off Topic.

If you kill a thread then you are killing the 1 in 10 that are valid.

I have long thought there is a concerted effort to derail threads by simply making them unreadable - going off topic, long long posts, prepared posts, no use of spelling or grammar.
A person who logs on once a day or every few days is not going to bother reading a thread with 100+ posts.

Zap any OT posts in a thread, issue a general reminder and I believe it will go a long way to changing some habits here.

I will copy this and leave it in the Moderators thread for discussion/debate/ridicule.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm guessing moderating this place is much more work than you realize.

I'm also guessing you missed this thread on CN Mods. As Hugh wondered up front:

"Would it be more fun to have bamboo splinters shoved under your fingernails or to be a moderator on this forum?"

 

[Martin318is]

This was a post and reply started in the (latest) LeMond thread - it started when Alpe suggested closing the thread as it had gone waaaay off topic and had little merit.



Then kill the 9 that are Off Topic.

If you kill a thread then you are killing the 1 in 10 that are valid.

I have long thought there is a concerted effort to derail threads by simply making them unreadable - going off topic, long long posts, prepared posts, no use of spelling or grammar.
A person who logs on once a day or every few days is not going to bother reading a thread with 100+ posts.

Zap any OT posts in a thread, issue a general reminder and I believe it will go a long way to changing some habits here.

I will copy this and leave it in the Moderators thread for discussion/debate/ridicule.

As I said in the thread that alpe alludes to in the post above - just what is it that you think I do all day?

People only see the deletes and lockings. They dont see the numerous warnings and to and fros with members before the decision is made that a thread cannot be recovered.

The last thread I locked had FOUR different warnings from moderators in it to stay on topic - strangely NOBODY seemed able to discuss the original topic = locked.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I'm guessing moderating this place is much more work than you realize.

I'm also guessing you missed this thread on CN Mods. As Hugh wondered up front:

"Would it be more fun to have bamboo splinters shoved under your fingernails or to be a moderator on this forum?"

And why is it "work"?

Its because when you log on you find that threads have had many posts - which would be good, except in your words "9 out of 10" posts in the latest Lemond thread are off topic.

This is not a criticism of you or any of the individual moderators -it is something that needs to be addressed by CN.
There is (IMO) a 'strategy' employed by some to derail threads - deleting those posts, or moving them to existing threads would curb that.

The LeMond thread that these posts came from was started by a poster who joined, posted one post and their 'last activity' was all within (at best) 2 days.

I am not sure how many LeMond or Lance threads have started lately - but if all the OT stuff was deleted it would stop others going off topic, which makes your life easier. Also - it requires posters to address the point of the thread, and not the OT remarks about posters.

With less posts to wade through, other issues could be addressed - like merging some new threads in to existing threads - which would stop posters making OT or irrelevant threads.

None of this would or should impact on the content or openness allowed in a forum - all topics should be addressed - LeMond, Lance, Floyd, Contador, even Evens , all should be discussed - questions asked, opinions given, facts uncovered and shared - that is what this forum does and does well - and then let people make their own opinions on that information.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

As I said in the thread that alpe alludes to in the post above - just what is it that you think I do all day?

People only see the deletes and lockings. They don't see the numerous warnings and to and fros with members before the decision is made that a thread cannot be recovered.

The last thread I locked had FOUR different warnings from moderators in it to stay on topic - strangely NOBODY seemed able to discuss the original topic = locked.

I had a look and don't know which locked threads you are referring to - but if posters are going off topic, then why warnings?

If a comment is OT (or partially) - then delete the OT part. Any of the regular contributors here would learn after a post or 2.
For anyone new they would realize that there is a simple rule to address the topic.

Anyone continuing to try and keep doing so is (IMO) only doing so to get a particular viewpoint across or to disrupt a thread.

On the current Lemond thread - instead of you guys logging on and finding (164 posts!):

The OP: LeMond 70,000 documents
Full of lies.
Full of bitterness.
Might be the SCA case.
Lance is screwed.
I agree
Why would there be 70,000 documents?
LeMond has a PR firm.
LeMond beat me in a race.
Lance is in trouble.
Public strategies are out in force
+1
My Granny heard that LeMond was doped.
Pot, kettle, black.
Have you ever raced a bike?
The reason why documents were subpoenaed..


You might just have this:

The OP:LeMond 70,000 documents
Might be the SCA case.
Why would there be 70,000 documents?
The reason why documents were subpoenaed..
_________
Just one point to add to this - how many times lately have you guys as Mods/Admins had your objectivity/motivations asked?

I would dare say that many who have questioned your objectivity have also been responsible for going OT, or making threads and posts unreadable.

By locking and closing threads (that they have disrupted) only allows them a platform to being persecuted.

 

[Martin318is]

Doc,
I appreciate you taking the time to discuss the problem but I think you are missing some of the issues. for example your idea about editing posts rather than locking threads means that a Mod has to go into each post modify it and leave some attempt at a sensible reason behind. that is a massive amount of work for a volunteer to engage in. - Pay me and I will think about it.

Ordinarily the answer to that would be to stay at the thread level, hit the checkbox on every dodgy post and then delete the lot of them with one statement that they are off topic. You will notice that this doesnt happen as often as it used to precisely because ( as you raised) the has been an increased level of claims of bias, etc against the moderators here.

Deleting a post leaves only the evidence that a moderator wiped out one or posts by a user with limited explanation and leaves the Mod exposed to claims of bias.

Warning a user via PM or even giving an infraction leaves no public evidence visible to anyone other than other moderators and as a result doesn't stop anyone else from adding to the off topic problems. A public warning on a fast moving thread is generally more effective than arguing the toss with each individual. Usually it calms things down and gets people to focus.

Locking a thread with a statement that those involved had gone too far offtopic leaves a history that demonstrates to anybody that cares, exactly who it was that was derailing the thread and why.

I agree that locking threads isn't great but all the posts remain searchable and referrable and can be discussed elsewhere in the forum. That is better than creating a mythology of all moderators here being anti-Armstrong and supporters of a certain group of trolls.

I believe I am biased in my beliefs on certain topics but NEVER in my actions as a moderator and I am happy for the evidence of my actions to be reviewed.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

And why is it "work"?

When you wake up, and your home e-mail inbox is filled with 10 reported posts of spam, insults, childish spats, plus you find your inbox is 98% full again from the PMs people have sent you, and the several other PMs you didn't get to yet. Then you try to address all that. Then go into the forums and start sifting through threads. Reading post after post after post. Trying to get into the flow of conversation, to understand what the topic is. Then the policing begins. Deleting posts, editing posts, giving warnings and infractions, banning spammers, sock puppets and like. Then sending PM's to people explaining why you are taking action against them, or just gently warning them for a post that didn't fit, though may have upset someone. Then there's the time taken to reply to these threads, reminding people to stay on topic, don't insult each other, etc. Then let the other admins and mods know what you did, so they are aware of what's going on and we remain cohesive. And well, before you know it, I've spent an hour here doing nothing but admin/mod work.

In essence, I have two jobs. One where I work 40 hours a week. The other is the 10+ hours a week I volunteer here. There have been rainy days at home where I probably spent 8 hours on the net, much of it on this site, and much of that time was trying to catch up on all the mod/admin work. I'm sure Bala, RDV, 180mm, Martin, Susan, and Barrus could tell you the same thing.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Thanks to both of you for the replies. I must admit I did not read either of them, as I have some other points to address.



Ok - of course I read them..... but hold that thought!**
It is noticeable that there is frustration within both replies - at no point am I dismissing or not understanding your time and effort - in fact my posts here are to help lessen the time you guys spend on here.

When I asked why is it "work" - it was a rhetorical question, but you both replied, and what was interesting was how you both mentioned the time you spend sifting through posts.

This is my point - instead of spending the time reading a post, considering does it cross a line, trying to remember the poster, the topic, their point and what were they replying to....... if its OT, then zap it.

** I am sure you would feel frustrated or even rage if I had ignored your posts - now imagine if a poster comes on for half an hour, and spends their time writing long winded OT or personal posts and they come back later to find them all deleted - they will soon realize they are wasting their time.

This is not a moderator bias - if its OT its OT, doesn't matter the subject or poster. Those that have complained about mod bias have all flouted the rules - and then claim persecution.
This is their intention - so as they can continue to flout the rules. When anyone has mentioned mod bias I have asked them for an example, I never get a reply.

A solution to this is to open a thread here - 'Comments on deleted posts' - someone can whine if they feel aggrieved, at best they will say that 'well Johnny's post was OT too'. Ultimately we are guests here of CN/Future - its their forum not the posters.

Just thinking on it, with respect - this is all backwards..... it should be us (the posters) who spend the time and effort to articulate a point and keep within the margins - for the mods it should be a quick browse through and tidy up.

 

[python]

ok here’s my 2 pennies and i’m off roller skiing.

dr. maseratti, you are raising valid points and your solution may indeed work…

......but not in here, not at cn, a very-very fast moving forum where 1-hr volume exceeds most cycling forums entire days worth of clicking. it’s simply not practical here unless cn hires a battalion of additional overseers.

to determine if a post is an ot the mod has to read the post, think for a sec and decide to take an action or not. true, a blatant off topic is easy to spot but in many cases it’s a highly subjective and arbitrary decision that will almost certainly differ from mod to mod though perfectly within the forum rules. strict enforcement of the compliance with the topic title can easily lead to over moderation and a massive forum discontent.

martin318 is absolutely right, the moderating team’s quality, transparency and credibility will plummet if massive deletions are implemented.

in stead, and it’s my personal observation and by no means a claim to the only solution, i believe the drastic reduction in venom, ot, flaming and baiting can be achieved by tightening polices on how to deal with repeat and persistent offenders. particularly those with multiple sock puppets.

think. why do people resort to sock puppeting in stead of being satisfied with one, god-given voice ?

by definition it is to bypass rules in order to force their views, disrupt, flame and derail.

restrict those with multiple sock puppets and offensive record from posting and 50% of the troubled threads are recoverable.

look at the example of one poster who was banned many times, was exposed with multiple sock puppets and just returned from another long ban. have you noticed a certain increase in adversity, flaming and baiting ? even a superficial glance at his posting record since the return (in addition to what we the public cant see), the majority of his post are either *edit by mod* or followed by mod warnings.

if an individual is desperate enough to create 7 or 10 sock puppets and arrogant enough to discuss them in public, i doubt deleting one or two of his posts will help much.

 

[Martin318is]

hmmm

well there are a few problems that I can see with that (although it would be nice if it did work)

* In another thread I read this morning someone was complaining that the place is over moderated and that they shouldnt have to find heaps of deleted posts saying 'edited by mod' in threads.

* Deleting posts for whatever reason only leaves one way to see its original content (mod powers sorry) and that then leaves us exposed to the current trend of complaining that the mods are biased to one side of the current major arguments. If we are having all these complaints when the posting history is public, imagine the rants if we deleted the posts....I see a spiralling death march towards an unworkable forum that way (This is clearly the main reason I do everything I can not to)

* Deleting posts is the approach we take with the likes of BPC and it doesnt really deter people much. (although at least everybody else can see that something is being done)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

ok here’s my 2 pennies and i’m off roller skiing.

dr. maseratti, you are raising valid points and your solution may indeed work…

......but not in here, not at cn, a very-very fast moving forum where 1-hr volume exceeds most cycling forums entire days worth of clicking. it’s simply not practical here unless cn hires a battalion of additional overseers.

to determine if a post is an ot the mod has to read the post, think for a sec and decide to take an action or not. true, a blatant off topic is easy to spot but in many cases it’s a highly subjective and arbitrary decision that will almost certainly differ from mod to mod though perfectly within the forum rules. strict enforcement of the compliance with the topic title can easily lead to over moderation and a massive forum discontent.

martin318 is absolutely right, the moderating team’s quality, transparency and credibility will plummet if massive deletions are implemented.

in stead, and it’s my personal observation and by no means a claim to the only solution, i believe the drastic reduction in venom, ot, flaming and baiting can be achieved by tightening polices on how to deal with repeat and persistent offenders. particularly those with multiple sock puppets.

think. why do people resort to sock puppeting in stead of being satisfied with one, god-given voice ?

by definition it is to bypass rules in order to force their views, disrupt, flame and derail.

restrict those with multiple sock puppets and offensive record from posting and 50% of the troubled threads are recoverable.

look at the example of one poster who was banned many times, was exposed with multiple sock puppets and just returned from another long ban. have you noticed a certain increase in adversity, flaming and baiting ? even a superficial glance at his posting record since the return (in addition to what we the public cant see), the majority of his post are either *edit by mod* or followed by mod warnings.

if an individual is desperate enough to create 7 or 10 sock puppets and arrogant enough to discuss them in public, i doubt deleting one or two of his posts will help much.

But surely the reason its fast moving is because people are writing plenty of OT posts?

If a crackdown on OT posts - either deletion or editing - then posters will (eventually) just post on the subject. Unfortunately for the mods, they have to stop and think now as it is, and will always do.

You are correct - about the sockpuppets and some users.
Again when they log on they have little interest in the topics raised - they are either here to bait other members or get their viewpoint across.

I just logged on and see a poster is now directing their post at me - nothing to do with either the topic or indeed cycling.
As it will not be deleted - I will respond, but ask them if they wish to continue do so on an appropriate thread. I would have no problem if there post and my response are deleted.

And how do you restrict someone from posting? If their intent is to disrupt and flame then deleting their post (as it would be OT) would be as effective.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

hmmm

well there are a few problems that I can see with that (although it would be nice if it did work)

* In another thread I read this morning someone was complaining that the place is over moderated and that they shouldn't have to find heaps of deleted posts saying 'edited by mod' in threads.

* Deleting posts for whatever reason only leaves one way to see its original content (mod powers sorry) and that then leaves us exposed to the current trend of complaining that the mods are biased to one side of the current major arguments. If we are having all these complaints when the posting history is public, imagine the rants if we deleted the posts....I see a spiralling death march to wards an unworkable forum that way (This is clearly the main reason I do everything I can not to)

* Deleting posts is the approach we take with the likes of BPC and it doesn't really deter people much. (although at least everybody else can see that something is being done)

Firstly - BPC is/was a seperate issue - one that has been effectively dealt with.



But Martin why do you care whether someone thinks this place is 'heavily moderated'?
This goes back to the 'mods bias' - which anyone can see does not exist, and you are almost confirming that the opposite is true - in that posts that should be dealt with or not.

When I say delete OT posts - I also include responses to OT posts.
No-one can claim mod bias if all are removed - and what if they stomp off vowing never to return? Great - they weren't observing the rules, they won't be missed.

Posters are guests here - they are only asked to observe some simple rules -if you do then you get to play, don't and you don't.

This is the CN forum - and ye guys as mods are doing it voluntarily.

The reason why CN is a success, is because any subject is allowed, and be properly debated. And there are some excellent posters who are either well connected or well informed.
There are also those that lurk - dealing with OT & personal posts might entice many more new members to come in and share their info.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

hmmm

well there are a few problems that I can see with that (although it would be nice if it did work)

* In another thread I read this morning someone was complaining that the place is over moderated and that they shouldn't have to find heaps of deleted posts saying 'edited by mod' in threads.

* Deleting posts for whatever reason only leaves one way to see its original content (mod powers sorry) and that then leaves us exposed to the current trend of complaining that the mods are biased to one side of the current major arguments. If we are having all these complaints when the posting history is public, imagine the rants if we deleted the posts....I see a spiralling death march to wards an unworkable forum that way (This is clearly the main reason I do everything I can not to)

* Deleting posts is the approach we take with the likes of BPC and it doesn't really deter people much. (although at least everybody else can see that something is being done)

Firstly - BPC is/was a seperate issue - one that has been effectively dealt with.



But Martin why do you care whether someone thinks this place is 'heavily moderated'?
This goes back to the 'mods bias' - which anyone can see does not exist, and you are almost confirming that the opposite is true - in that posts that should be dealt with or not.

When I say delete OT posts - I also include responses to OT posts.
No-one can claim mod bias if all are removed - and what if they stomp off vowing never to return? Great - they weren't observing the rules, they won't be missed.

Posters are guests here - they are only asked to observe some simple rules -if you do then you get to play, don't and you don't.

This is the CN forum - and ye guys as mods are doing it voluntarily.

The reason why CN is a success, is because any subject is allowed, and be properly debated. And there are some excellent posters who are either well connected or well informed.
There are also those that lurk - dealing with OT & personal posts might entice many more new members to come in and share their info.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Doc - I really think you're missing something. I wish you could be a mod for just a week, then you'd have a better idea.

As Python very aptly pointed out, CN moves very quickly. Your partial solution of deleting OT posts doesn't solve the problem of them being posted in the first place. The suggestion that if we clamped down maybe people wouldn't do them has not been proven effective in the past for very long. We actually have done that. We HAVE deleted OT posts, warned others - Susan, Bala and myself have all made posts in derailed threads stating that the next person to make an OT post spends a week suspended. We've also handed out warnings, infractions, and temporary bans for it. It does cut down some on the OT posts, but there is simply so much traffic, it's a constant uphill battle, especially when dealing with the rest of the list I informed you about.

We are already cutting down on sock puppets, but Python is right in that this has been a serious problem in the past, and beyond just BPC and his 100 incarnations. There have been other people banned for sock puppets, and still some we're dealing with, sifting through the hundreds and hundreds of members and thousands of IP addresses. Just deleting a few OT posts isn't going to take care of this problem.

It's like building a skyscraper in quicksand. While we're up here working on the 70th floor, the 20th is being sucked into the muck.

There was once an old ad advocating assistance for blind people showing a person wearing a blindfold. The tag line was "Wear one of these for a day and you'll understand".

 

[python]

<snip> There have been other people banned for sock puppets, and still some we're dealing with, sifting through the hundreds and hundreds of members and thousands of IP addresses. Just deleting a few OT posts isn't going to take care of this problem.

<snip>.

all good points, alp.
let me say this and i will no longer post in the feedback.

i have regularly read the forum feedback but i was very reluctant to voice my opinion in public. the reason was simple, i didn't believe it was necessary.

not the case anymore.

i am appalled by the arrogant audacity and intellectual obnoxiousness of some repeat offenders who keep poisoning my fun. as the consequence, i feel the forum declined to the point i start questioning my own participation...

anyways, to your point, given the ease with which a potential sock puppeteer can use anonymous ips (and given that one multiple-ban member, thai panda=chrise) inquired on the limits of ip observations by mods, i believe your new forum software may need to look at more than just poster's ips. for example, a new member registration emails - most people will not have more than 1 to 5 active email accounts. also, changeability of the last 3 digits of the ip address vs stability of the first nine. and of course, the most telling one - the sock puppet's language, style etc. dr. maseratti is an expert but there is an appropriate software out there.

by statistically correlating 2-3 parameters to the potential 4 criteria, probability of 99% a new member is a sock puppet is achievable.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Doc - I really think you're missing something. I wish you could be a mod for just a week, then you'd have a better idea.

As Python very aptly pointed out, CN moves very quickly. Your partial solution of deleting OT posts doesn't solve the problem of them being posted in the first place. The suggestion that if we clamped down maybe people wouldn't do them has not been proven effective in the past for very long. We actually have done that. We HAVE deleted OT posts, warned others - Susan, Bala and myself have all made posts in derailed threads stating that the next person to make an OT post spends a week suspended. We've also handed out warnings, infractions, and temporary bans for it. It does cut down some on the OT posts, but there is simply so much traffic, it's a constant uphill battle, especially when dealing with the rest of the list I informed you about.

We are already cutting down on sock puppets, but Python is right in that this has been a serious problem in the past, and beyond just BPC and his 100 incarnations. There have been other people banned for sock puppets, and still some we're dealing with, sifting through the hundreds and hundreds of members and thousands of IP addresses. Just deleting a few OT posts isn't going to take care of this problem.

It's like building a skyscraper in quicksand. While we're up here working on the 70th floor, the 20th is being sucked into the muck.

There was once an old ad advocating assistance for blind people showing a person wearing a blindfold. The tag line was "Wear one of these for a day and you'll understand".

I am sure I don't understand -

I am not asking you (or any of the mods) what your actions are. I think giving that info allows some to abuse it.
But to me it sounds like there is time, consideration, thought, effort, fairness, latitude given in the moderation - why?
Posters are allowed bring up any topic they wish, any. So, if you want to talk about rider x in rider y's thread, tough, zap it. If they wish to discuss rider y, then bring it up in riders y's thread. (and I do accept there will be occasions where a genuine comparison is given - but if it descends then it needs action)

A quick (& it was quick) look at the last few pages - 15 to 18 of the latest LeMond thread........ no, you would not want me as a mod - if it was left to me - then just 5 of the 34 posts would remain.
BTW, those deleted would include both my posts and yours.

Does the next Mod have to read 34 posts and make a decision? No, they read 5 posts. And for anyone else reading it, it makes it easier - do CN/future think people who log on once every day or 2 days are going to wade through a thread with a huge amount of posts, especially when it goes off topic?


To the red above - this is what I don't understand, now that is 'work', ie time consuming and frustrating.
Would it really matter if someone managed to make a sockpuppet - or a new account? If they adhere to the rules, it is fine - if they don't they don't. It should not matter that you presume its poster Y with a new IP address.
Their point is either OT or not.

Some posters goal here is not to discuss Cycling - they log on to inflame others or push a viewpoint - which means going off topic.

Perhaps I am writing this because I spot that there is a reluctance to clampdown so as not to show forum or mod bias - that is the aim of those that mention it.

BTW - I appreciated all the mods efforts, and I am just trying to make what I believe is a great site and great resource more enjoyable for all the participants, except the trolls. Because I believe this site is going to get a lot lot busier in the next few months.

 

[Martin318is]

Doc,
To be clear, I am not worried about being labelled as being biased. I was just making the point that we already have a heap of people running around calling this forum biased and deleting posts would provide circumstantial evidence for them as it leaves no public record of the cause of the infraction.

We do delete posts - quite regularly. You just have to look at some threads to see that it doesn't make much difference to anyone. Ignoring that for the moment, you are essentially asking us to sit here playing whack a mole on new posts.

Mods generally start a session by reacting to any reported posts, then their PM list, and then they may look at some of the faster moving threads - if they have time.

Your idea changes that to my sitting here hitting the 'Today's posts' button and then wading through all the threads deleting anything that is OT. At peaks such as last July, that would have been nearly impossible. Also, there are sometimes gaps where no mod is logged on and that means that the next mod online will have to go through pages of posts. I dont see how we can expect to keep stable in that situation.

Here is the actual problem though - you DO have to take the time to make a judgement about every post. As you said earlier, many posts are a combination of valid on topic comment and off topic rant. This type of post needs to be internally edited because it is
a) unfair to delete a post with valid content in it
b) damaging to the thread to leave the Off topic text in place.

Not all posters fall into a specific category. We have, for instance, got several members here who switch their time between posting quite intelligent and insightful comments - and being some of the worst examples of forum deinizens...

 

[Chuffy]

I am sure I don't understand -

I am not asking you (or any of the mods) what your actions are. I think giving that info allows some to abuse it.
But to me it sounds like there is time, consideration, thought, effort, fairness, latitude given in the moderation - why?

Good afternoon all. I know I'm a newbie here but I came across this thread and as I have some direct experience of modding on cycling forums I thought I'd chip in.

Dr M - the problem that I have with your post (my emphasis in bold) is that if the mods clamp down in the way that you seem to be advocating then I can pretty much guarantee that they will end up spending a huge amount of extra time justifying their actions on multiple complaint threads, not to mention PMs. Martin may not be bothered about people crying 'bias' at him, but I'm sure he doesn't want to deal with the grief that it can bring!

FWIW I used to be a user/mod on the old Cycling Plus forum (which then became Bike Radar). We did our best to be transparent and explain our actions and although that occasionally ended in long and debilitating arguments with certain posters, we were gaining support from other users who appreciated what we were trying to do. However, simply nailing posts and threads with no explanation given (what we used to refer to as anonymodding) would have resulted in a massive backlash from even the most sensible of posters. I've seen forums split before now because the mod or owner overplayed their hand.

Having lurked on here for a week I really, really don't envy these guys! I'm sure they appreciate (as I did back when) that some regulars take a sensible and measured interest in how the forum is run. But really, unless you've seen what goes on behind the scenes, you can't expect the mods to take up what may appear on the outside to be simple and obvious solutions. Keep 'em coming by all means, but sometimes you might just have to accept that not all that glitters is gold.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Welcome Chuffy. Yes, you get it completely. Perhaps I can interest you in being a mod here?! You like bamboo splints under the fingernails, yes?

...But to me it sounds like there is time, consideration, thought, effort, fairness, latitude given in the moderation - why?

Actually, it's almost the same amount of time determining whether to delete a post that's OT. It's all part of the same package. That's the part I don't think you understand.

That amount of time is given because we don't want such a heavy hand that it's even more work dealing with the backlash.