CN interviews Chris Horner

[Fortyninefourteen]

Some people in society cheat and lie and many don't. There is often an advantage to be had by cheating and lying. Those who cheat and lie (or their apologists) find ways to justify this behaviour (had to feed the family) but it remains wrong.

Why many here are highly critical of Horner is certainly because with all we know about what happened in pro cycling and specifically on teams he rode with, he is obvoiusly cheating and lying. He isn't expressing an opinion, he is engaging in despicable behaviour. He is also incredibly transparent about his lying. Clearly he sees some personal advantage to this.

Thankfully there are people like Betsy, Emma, Mike, Paul, Greg and others who have values.

Give him a break. He has not finished reading the USADA report, so he is operating with the 'old' talking points from Fabs....

 

[MarkvW]

A lot of the people that are making statements any way supportive of Armstrong are those who doped themselves (Merckx for example), or have personal connections to him (Horner).

As for 'straw man' arguments - I made none - what Horner said is not particularly different to those positions, and arguably it's actually worse as it makes no attempt to suggest that things have changed, even emptily.

Horner claims that a doper is someone who fails a test. By stating Armstrong never failed a test (which is incorrect), he implies that he was not a doper. He uses the 'never failed a test' mantra to attack USADA and all those speaking out against Armstrong and the rest of the cabal. That sounds like a 'straw man' argument to me.

What use is testing if certain teams are alleged to have had help in beating the tests - help from Ferrari to get on a programme that would be undetectable and help of a more insidious nature in being aware of when testing was going to occur or of ways around it. The testing regime in the Armstrong era was plainly sub-standard and anyone 'popped' was careless, unable to afford the 'good stuff' or, if you believe the conspiracy theories, certain undesirables were targeted, and there are those who are of the firm belief that the very same thing happened to poor old Frank Schleck in July.

The final word on Horner should come at the USA Pro Cycling Challenge when he said, on camera:



Blind loyalty is stupidity.

Wait five years from now. Horner will have a job in cycling. Horner is NOT acting stupidly.

 

[thehog]

The final word on Horner should come at the USA Pro Cycling Challenge when he said, on camera:



Blind loyalty is stupidity.

Which is not far from what Sanchez or any other Pro has said.

Or this:

"I love him," Wiggins said. "I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense. Even his strongest critics have benefitted from him. I don't think this sport will ever realise what he's brought it or how big he's made it.

"Cycling was in the dark ages before he came along, in many ways. You only have to look at the support along the roads, compared to what it was 20 years ago. The majority of that is because of Lance Armstrong. Obviously he has his enemies and people among the fans who don't like him, but they've all benefitted from him and his existence on the Tour."

 

[frenchfry]

Wait five years from now. Horner will have a job in cycling. Horner is NOT acting stupidly.

But he is showing the lack of a moral compass, which for me is far worse than being stupid.

We can all make mistakes, but in that case what counts is what we do when we are given an opportunity to make good. Horner has failed miserably where others (though certainly not all) have more or less succeeded.

At the very least he should have shut his trap.

 

[thehog]

Wait five years from now. Horner will have a job in cycling. Horner is NOT acting stupidly.

In five years he'll be 72!

 

[MarkvW]

But he is showing the lack of a moral compass, which for me is far worse than being stupid.

We can all make mistakes, but in that case what counts is what we do when we are given an opportunity to make good. Horner has failed miserably where others (though certainly not all) have more or less succeeded.

At the very least he should have shut his trap.

This is professional cycling! Lying and hypocrisy is the norm! Horner is following the script. He's betting that nothing has changed and nothing will change. I think that's a smart bet.

But I agree with the "lack of moral compass" statement that you make. Unfortunately, that statement applies to virtually all of pro cycling.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Which is not far from what Sanchez or any other Pro has said.

Or this:

Or this:

"I think there is a lot of anger from most people within the sport, it is a sport I love and have always loved," said Wiggins.

"It is a shame that cycling is being dragged through this again really, not a shame that he (Armstrong) has been caught...."

You tell other people to start threads on other riders, if they stray into the Sky thread with such comments, so why do you persist in trying to shove Wiggins into threads where he is completely off topic?

How many Sky threads are enough for you?

There is some interesting debate and decent posts being made on old school Horner.
Lance's lackey may not be stupid, but his comments are certainly outspoken and very un PC in the current climate.
In that respect, certainly not the smartest move.

 

[thehog]

Which is not far from what Sanchez or any other Pro has said.

Or this:

or this:

“I’ve always been a bit of a fan of Lance and have sided on the side of innocent until proven guilty with him. There isn’t an athlete or a cyclist out there that isn’t more tested than he is, certainly since his comeback, he’s probably been the most tested cyclist in the pro peloton and you take that on face value and that he’s never failed a drugs test and until he does he’s clean. That’s how I’ve always had as a stance on Lance.”

Point being Horner is not far from the Tour de France Champion.

They're both telling the same story.

I'm not saying Horner is right but 99% of the peloton are talking the same smack.

 

[Jeremiah]

That's funny. I likes me my steel frame and Brooks saddle!

Yeah, I was just trying to "animate" the thread. I was riding a Brooks team pro on a KG 381. People laughed and I enjoyed that.

Now I'm on a Toupe which I find to be good. It rains a lot here so you always have to have a plastic bag for the brooks..My friend built up a fixie so I gave him the brooks which was gathering dust..

 

[Jeremiah]

Huh?

One would think. However, as an insider Chris may have a different perspective. The fact that numerous other top riders doped, it doesn't make sense to single out just one.

Of course it makes sense to single out Horner. His comments don't accrue to any collective he was speaking on behalf of. HE made the statements and as far as I know they weren't made under duress.

The guy climbed out on that limb by himself and I'm going to rag the heck out of him for it. He was taking us for fools and if he's not called on it, he's going to be twice as ridiculous next time.

I haven't a clue as to what his intent was with the interview. All I know is that CN reported he said this nonsense.

So, if I saw him at any races, which I doubt, I'd tell him his comments about LA and the state of cycling are crazy. It would be his choice as to what happened next.

He's either an idiot, or has no moral compass. Eff him, the guy can't even be straight in the small things in life like cycling. Complete @sshole.

edit, if you and Horner were referring to singling out LA, well, LA selected himself for the glory, and all its accoutrements. Of course he should take the biggest fall when it was proven he was the greatest promoter of the drug culture, and the biggest enforcer of the omerta.. This LA defense proves Horner is an even bigger D!ck than I had mentioned previously...

 

[rickshaw]

Maybe Dumb: Maybe Smart

If CH clams up, that would NOT be normal for him and, in my eyes at least, would make him look very GUILTY.

He's at the end of his career, just wants to stretch it out as long as he can. I doubt there is a "rocket scientist" job waiting for when he quites. Maybe he wants a Bob Roll - Kinda Dufus commentator job. Maybe any job in the bike industry. Will confessing everything, or outing LA help his prospects of riding now, or help getting a job later?

His best and smartest choice is to continue to play the "just love'n it and wanting to ride my bike", the "Jethro Bodine" of cycling. "Golly folks, I don't know nuthin' 'bout all that stuff. I never seen a goll darn thing. Lance there, he always done right by me. Jest lemme ride my bike, OK?"

Smartest, maybe ONLY way to go.

 

[The Valley]

Which is not far from what Sanchez or any other Pro has said.

Or this:

Or this:

"I love him," Wiggins said. "I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense. Even his strongest critics have benefitted from him. I don't think this sport will ever realise what he's brought it or how big he's made it.

"Cycling was in the dark ages before he came along, in many ways. You only have to look at the support along the roads, compared to what it was 20 years ago. The majority of that is because of Lance Armstrong. Obviously he has his enemies and people among the fans who don't like him, but they've all benefitted from him and his existence on the Tour."

...which he said way back in, what, early 2010? More than two years before the USADA report came out? Yeah, maybe he should have been paying more attention, but here's what Wiggins said this year:

Asked whether Armstrong should confess, Wiggins said: "I think so yeah, yeah, definitely. But everyone knows he's a stubborn man. He has too much to lose, but the evidence speaks for itself. [It] looks overwhelming.

He was someone I respected and admired. I've met quite a few sportsmen, but I don't think I've met anybody as … powerful as him." He describes Armstrong as "quite an intimidating person to be around"

So, used to be a little bit intimidated by Armstrong, which is understandable given Armstrong's nature as a monstrously insecure bully. But now thinks he should confess, though doubts he will because he has too much to lose.

But of course you present the original quote in the hope that people would think Wiggins had said it yesterday, without any context, because you, The Hog, have been so twisted over the years by the doping scandals that you now exist in a paranoid bubble where you assume that every single professional cyclist is still doping.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Horner's almost as delusional as Wonderboy. I just can't understand how clueless Horner really is, jebus he's just lost a ton of fans/support with his blatant stupidity.

 

[thehog]

...which he said way back in, what, early 2010? More than two years before the USADA report came out? Yeah, maybe he should have been paying more attention, but here's what Wiggins said this year:

Try 2011. And January 2012. Even with the writing on the wall he was saying the same as Horner.

 

[Mellow Velo]

or this:



Point being Horner is not far from the Tour de France Champion.

They're both telling the same story.

I'm not saying Horner is right but 99% of the peloton are talking the same smack.

I know what you are saying, Hog, they all used to verbally worship LA, but since the USADA report, the demographic has changed somewhat.

How many riders have been quoted on LA post ban? Maybe 20-30?
We've had only 2 or 3 give him the tongue lashing he deserves.
Maybe 10%.
A bunch of riders have given him a wishy washy thumbs down, of sorts.
The Spanish have generally stuck to their old stance.
I rate Horner's as extreme; almost unique.
He comes across as aggressively Pro Armstrong.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Jimmy Engoulvent > anyone else you can name

 

[thehog]

At least Horner is consistent. He's an absolute donkey for not seeing the obvious but at least he didn't spit on Landis and co. like Wiggins and Miller did.

Those two set the anti-doping process back 10 years. In fact if the UCI got their way and obtained jurisdiction Wiggins would still be telling about how great Lance is and how Sky are like Postal.

Wiggins did little to assist in the anti-doping process. Everyone else did the heavy lifting. He jumped on the bandwagon once he knew there was no going back and with some watered down statements.

Horner who is obviously protecting his pay cheque and is talking smack. He's no patron nor is he pretending to be.

I just find it ironic that some use Horner as a Lance punching bag when the British contigent of riders were far worse in their statements.

 

[ElBeeJay]

Was that interview some sort of subversive journalism trying to out a true fool or was it trying to take the guy serious? Any which way ít was basically a waste of time albeit it has caused a stir at the clinic. Still Horner should be kicked out first thing for being a brainfart

 

[BroDeal]

His best and smartest choice is to continue to play the "just love'n it and wanting to ride my bike", the "Jethro Bodine" of cycling. "Golly folks, I don't know nuthin' 'bout all that stuff. I never seen a goll darn thing. Lance there, he always done right by me. Jest lemme ride my bike, OK?"

The Jethro Bodine of cycling! That's funny.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Was that interview some sort of subversive journalism trying to out a true fool or was it trying to take the guy serious. Any which way ot was basically a waste of time albeit it has caused a stir at the clinic. Still Horner should be kicked out first for being a brainfart

You are correct on the subversive journalism. Shooting a fish in a barrel.

 

[Neworld]

It seems pretty clear to me that Horner has his line in the sand, that in the absence of a positive test there is no doping. I understand that simplicity, even though I do not agree with it. If I recall, Conconni and Ferrari had something of the same opinion.

However, Horner's opinion does not make him stupid. I am surely in awe of the powerful intelligence of the forum posters, all of whom are at the genius level (or above) of intelligence and who can sit in such powerful and reasoned judgment of all opinions. What a bunch of tools

The line is actually a circle where Horner's craniotomy was performed.

What is most shocking is when silly posters deflect or deny how destructive CH's sinister remarks are. And, why does the USADA allow Chris to get away with his remarks. Call him into the 'office' and talk about the reasoned decision. If he gives USADA the same BS then say, "that's cool Chris, hey since you're so clean, hardworking and a 41yr old bright light for future clean cycling could you enroll in our new ultrafrequent, unscheduled, blood analysis protocol? Make him apart of the future by testing him once a week. He'll not only STFU but retire in 6 months.

More importantly, the lack of response from fellow Pros is perplexing. Of all times, NOW is the time for Pros to openly pound on undeniable dopers like Chris, who continue to project that all is good and the last 15yrs of doping was ok...oh as long as you're not caught.

Where are the Pros standing up to the likes of Horner? Call CH out! Ask him the hard questions in public, in the news and get him to justify his performance and those of 'nullified' Lance. There is so much momentum to exploit the deviant cyclists, now is the time. That is the most shocking part for me.

 

[goggalor]

*puke*

Horner is the most obvious doper of the last three years. It says so much about the sport that he's still racing, and so much about the blood passport that he was a zero on the suspicion index.

 

[Neworld]

Not at all, I was pointing out that in many professional sports the general belief is that if your are not caught/penalized then you were not cheating. Pro sports are pragmatic if nothing else. Its great fun to sit here on a forum and moralize of how awful cheating is blah blah blah...

This is a cycling doping forum and without being too much of a 'splitter' here, I don't give a rats a$$ about other pro sports. I care about cycling and all the potential new riders with 'real' talent that don't need to hope that they are malevolent responders like Lancey to enjoy a future in cycling.

Oh, and most people here are not idiots trying to believe that honest fair sports without cheating, doping and bullying is something worth fighting for. If you want to be apathetic and accept doping because 'ah shucks everybody dopes and they all want to win' great but your attitude, or acceptance of that attitude, is the problem bud. Open a new thread talking about better ways to dope, how to avoid getting caught and/or the general malaise and poor attitude of pros.

 

[ElBeeJay]

He can't be that stupid, he's managed not to get caught all these years.

That's what guys like Johan Bruyneel is for

 

[ElBeeJay]

Notice his munching of biscuits in the interview. Typical cyclists btw. In a couple of months he'll go to Tirreno-Adriatico (or some stage race somewhere else) telling any hack who care to listen that he's "followed a strict diet" to "optimize his form" through winter when the truth is (as ever) that he only lost considerable weight once the human growth hormones kicked in.