Cobbles in le Tour

[mr. tibbs]

I have to say the Tour was a debacle today. Froome didn't crash twice before they even got to the cobbles for nothing. He was psychologically defeated before the real race begun. Some like to see this kind of disaster, but not me.

I'd rather see all the contenders battling it out in the mountains. Alas this is not to be the case this year. And it could have been the best clash in years.

And I like Nibali, but if he wins, which could very well now be the case, because he gained such advantage today and while Froome was eliminated; for me the Tour is tarnished.

The Tour is tarnished because a contender crashed out and another gained time on a stage? This baffles me. Maybe we've just all been reprogrammed by the robo-teams of the past decade-and-a-half to believe that GTs are all about the tt and the last five km of the two hardest climbing stages. It's a 21 day race--anyone who can't compete every day won't win.

EDIT: These complaints are taking on the tint of the "deserving/udeserving rider" spiel. The race doesn't care that you have written a narrative of how it's supposed to go, and of who the winner is supposed to be, and where/how that winner is supposed to win the race. There is no deserving/undeserving--there's just racing, and whoever wins the race, well, wins the race.

 

[Ramira]

The Tour is tarnished because a contender crashed out and another gained time on a stage? This baffles me. Maybe we've just all been reprogrammed by the robo-teams of the past decade-and-a-half to believe that GTs are all about the tt and the last five km of the two hardest climbing stages. It's a 21 day race--anyone who can't compete every day won't win.

Nono a great tour is one where everyone knows who will win it before the start and that's how it plays out, you know like last year or 2010. When will you "racing purists" ever learn!

 

[red_flanders]

The Tour is tarnished because a contender crashed out and another gained time on a stage? This baffles me. Maybe we've just all been reprogrammed by the robo-teams of the past decade-and-a-half to believe that GTs are all about the tt and the last five km of the two hardest climbing stages. It's a 21 day race--anyone who can't compete every day won't win.

Great post. People are squawking that an actual race occurred today.

 

[Fight.The.Power]

Voted every year.

Cobbles are an element of the Proffessional Road Racing and as such should be included.

Although we had only a fraction of the cobbles we see on PR it led to fantastic racing.

And there is no god given right that the best climber should win the Tour IMO.

And for those saying cobbles leads to too many DNf's look at today. Zero.

 

[Ramira]

Hmm I'm missing the "every other year" option in the poll, which is what I would go for. I think every year is to much, there aren't as many options for good cobble stages as mountains, so we would probably run out of good routes soonish. However every few years is not enough.

Personally I'd like a stage like today alternating with a strade bianchi type stage, gives us some variety and at the same time forces GT riders to be able to do something more than just climbing on tarmac.

 

[Red Rick]

Btw, they should ban asfalt, cause the defending champ crashed out on that. Dangerous stuff. And rain, ban rain as well

 

[luckyboy]

Every other year maybe, with ribinoù/sterrato stage in between.

 

[Fight.The.Power]

Also if we did have cobbles every year, then everyone would be more experienced on them and therefore there will be less crashes.

 

[Red Rick]

I really cant tell if this is trolling or not. If its not I dont think that there are enough face palms in the world to cover it.

She'll be alright if Contador wins it in the end, if Contador had been in the first group she'd be over the moon with cobbles in every GT

 

[Ramira]

Btw, they should ban asfalt, cause the defending champ crashed out on that. Dangerous stuff. And rain, ban rain as well

You're forgetting cyclists, it was a move by a Belkin rider that made Keukeleire move into Froome's path yesterday, which probably caused the fracture that made Froome abandon. So no more cyclists, *******s cause crashes!

 

[Red Rick]

Are there any other places with good cobbels or strade bianchi in France? It's quite difficult to put it any other than in the first week cause the mountains are too far away. I think I like strade bianchi way more though. Slightly less dangerous and there are slightly longer hills and climbs on it

 

[purcell]

Doesn't have to be cobbles but there needs to be at least some recognition of the fact that this is a race.

In recentyears they have been routing the TdF over highways or freshly paved roads so tha the racers only have to deal with "perfect" surfaces. Leads to high speed trains and deadly boring races that are not even worth watching.

As said above, cobbles, gravel roads, dirt roads, goat tracks .... what ever it takes to add variety and remind us of what bike racing is supposed to be and brings some excitement back.

A day like today is classic. It broke the race apart and guarantees that over the next two weeks we will see actual racing and attacking and defending.

This is the best thing that could have happened to the TdF.

 

[Fight.The.Power]

Are there any other places with good cobbels or strade bianchi in France? It's quite difficult to put it any other than in the first week cause the mountains are too far away. I think I like strade bianchi way more though. Slightly less dangerous and there are slightly longer hills and climbs on it

A good point. Realistically can we have a different cobbled section every year or two? The same sections of pave every year would become dull.

 

[rhubroma]

The Tour is tarnished because a contender crashed out and another gained time on a stage? This baffles me. Maybe we've just all been reprogrammed by the robo-teams of the past decade-and-a-half to believe that GTs are all about the tt and the last five km of the two hardest climbing stages. It's a 21 day race--anyone who can't compete every day won't win.

EDIT: These complaints are taking on the tint of the "deserving/udeserving rider" spiel. The race doesn't care that you have written a narrative of how it's supposed to go, and of who the winner is supposed to be, and where/how that winner is supposed to win the race. There is no deserving/undeserving--there's just racing, and whoever wins the race, well, wins the race.

Nor does the race care about how you think it "isn't" supposed to go. Mine has been a technical consideration all along that I think is completely logical given the tenor of modern cycling. And yet I'm the one being called conservative here.

Look I find it baffling that after the real PR, this mini-one means we won't have all the big favorites for the grand show in the mountains and that some are thrilled by this prospect. And in response to another poster, if there were no cobbles we can be quite certain Froome would have gotten through the day after his crash, despite the bad weather coditions.

Up through the 80's cobbles were not such an issue at the Tour, but times have changed. Precisely because the Tour is not cycling, the Tour should acknowledge when times change and adapt to them. This Tour is going to be won without Froome, who happened to go out on this stage. We can debate the reasons, however, this race was about beating him and now that is lost.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Just like TTT and mountain ITT they should be used, but not often. Once every 5 years or so to spice things up is fine, but more would be overdoing it. There are more things like cobbles that you can use to create interesting races, so you shouldn't use them too often. They would lose their magic if they were used every year.

Big part of what made this race epic was the rain anyway. They could have only done 2 sectors of cobbles and it wouldn't have turned out that much different. 90% of the crashes were because of wet roads, not cobbles. Most of the gaps were created by crashes on wet roads, not cobbles, too.

 

[Fight.The.Power]

Not every year, but definitely more often. I think it's a better idea to do it later in the Tour after they've had the first (medium) mountains, so that everyone who is out of contention by then won't bother

Another good point. The potentially most dangerous element is the high speed bottleneck into the first pave. A thinner field means no bottleneck.

 

[veji11]

Are there any other places with good cobbels or strade bianchi in France? It's quite difficult to put it any other than in the first week cause the mountains are too far away. I think I like strade bianchi way more though. Slightly less dangerous and there are slightly longer hills and climbs on it

Not cobbles no, or very rarely, but you have lots of agricultural regions where you have dirt roads, for example in Britanny where they have the Tro Bro Leon race. Here you have great pictures to give you an idea.

You could find that in many agricultural regions, it is just a matter of checking their rideability... Strade bianche / Dirt roads exist everywhere.

 

[rhubroma]

She'll be alright if Contador wins it in the end, if Contador had been in the first group she'd be over the moon with cobbles in every GT

I don't know about her, but as far as I'm concerned no. I wanted to see Contador and Nibali battle Froome in the mountains on an even footing.

What seems like something thrilling today, as it certainly was from the point of view of the spectacle, is not good for the overall economy of the Tour in my opinion.

 

[Ramira]

I don't know about her, but as far as I'm concerned no. I wanted to see Contador and Nibali battle Froome in the mountains on an even footing.

What seems like something thrilling today, as it certainly was from the point of view of the spectacle, is not good for the overall economy of the Tour in my opinion.

Froome abandoned because of a fractured wrist that was caused by a crash yesterday.

Contador lost time because he wasn't as good as Nibali.

Please explain to me what it was that happened today that ruined the tour?

 

[Dutchsmurf]

I don't know about her, but as far as I'm concerned no. I wanted to see Contador and Nibali battle Froome in the mountains on an even footing.

What seems like something thrilling today, as it certainly was from the point of view of the spectacle, is not good for the overall economy of the Tour in my opinion.

If it is good for the overall economy of the Tour depends on if Contador is stronger than Nibali or not. If Contador can slowly get back time, it will be great. If not, it will indeed be bad.

 

[Fight.The.Power]

I don't know about her, but as far as I'm concerned no. I wanted to see Contador and Nibali battle Froome in the mountains on an even footing.

What seems like something thrilling today, as it certainly was from the point of view of the spectacle, is not good for the overall economy of the Tour in my opinion.

Contador would not battle Nibali on an even footing, he would put 3 minutes into him. Thank god for Nibali's gap today otherwise this year would be a fait accompli already.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Nor does the race care about how you think it "isn't" supposed to go. Mine has been a technical consideration all along that I think is completely logical given the tenor of modern cycling. And yet I'm the one being called conservative here.

Look I find it baffling that after the real PR, this mini-one means we won't have all the big favorites for the grand show in the mountains and that some are thrilled by this prospect. And in response to another poster, if there were no cobbles we can be quite certain Froome would have gotten through the day after his crash, despite the bad weather coditions.

Up through the 80's cobbles were not such an issue at the Tour, but times have changed. Precisely because the Tour is not cycling, the Tour should acknowledge when times change and adapt to them. This Tour is going to be won without Froome, who happened to go out on this stage. We can debate the reasons, however, this race was about beating him and now that is lost.

RE the bolded: I never stipulated conditions either way. I watched the race, it unfolded, and that's how it is. I'm not clamouring against the outcoming b/c it runs contrary to my expectations, nor am I celebrating it b/c it confirmed them. I'm just accepting the result and celebrating a great day of racing.

I do think we've been trained to expect robo-team racing, and to understand the race as a pre-written narrative towards that end. Is that the changing of times you mention?

And as for the race being about beating Froome, I think that's just the pre-written narrative talking. Froome had to go out and win the race on the road. He didn't.

 

[del1962]

Contador would not battle Nibali on an even footing, he would put 3 minutes into him. Thank god for Nibali's gap today otherwise this year would be a fait accompli already.

Quite right, with Froome out due to an innocous crash yesterday, without todays stage, Contador would have won at a canter, now he will have to take 3 minutes on Nibali, which will be more exciting than what would have happened.

 

[yespatterns]

I voted every year, and also like the idea of including strada. Incorporating these and the usual Hills/MTF/iTT/flats lends a much better view on who the most well rounded riders are. Plus, if it became a trend one might see less specialists --- which would make me happy, even if its unrealistic to expect a GC contender these days to race all year and not just focus on three weeks.

 

[purcell]

Nor does the race care about how you think it "isn't" supposed to go. Mine has been a technical consideration all along that I think is completely logical given the tenor of modern cycling. And yet I'm the one being called conservative here.

Look I find it baffling that after the real PR, this mini-one means we won't have all the big favorites for the grand show in the mountains and that some are thrilled by this prospect. And in response to another poster, if there were no cobbles we can be quite certain Froome would have gotten through the day after his crash, despite the bad weather coditions.

Up through the 80's cobbles were not such an issue at the Tour, but times have changed. Precisely because the Tour is not cycling, the Tour should acknowledge when times change and adapt to them. This Tour is going to be won without Froome, who happened to go out on this stage. We can debate the reasons, however, this race was about beating him and now that is lost.

So your whole issue is that Froome is out? Really has nothing to do with cobbles, it's Froome.

Froome is out because he can't handle either his bike, or the pressure. Period. Nothing to do with cobbles or not.

He fell down, went boom, on a flat paved road.