Cobbles in le Tour

[Maaaaaaaarten]

I know it's the same race promoter but it's very telling that Bore needs to steal Paris-Roubaix's cobbles to get a little bit entertaining.

Cobbles belong to Paris-Roubaix, period. Worst of all is that there are dozens of sections that Paris-Roubaix leaves aside but all the sections of that stage were Paris-Roubaix sections.

The greatness of a Paris-Roubaix is its rarety. Once in a year. Plus a handful of kermess races, that's fine. Too many cobbles kill the cobbles.


I'm against it but of course not for the same reasons as others, of course. When I see all those fanboys whining because it's too inhuman etc of course it kind of makes me advocate for it but I have to stick to my principles !

..and when you see the gaps on such a small part of it, you understand that the full thing is the hardest race that there is !

This is a good point. I voted for every year because I liked the fact that we finally got proper racing and because I think a stage race should be about more than who has the most w/kg, which today's stage ensured. However, I fully agree we don't want some gimmicky mini Paris Roubaix every year.

It would be great if we got some cobbles that are not in PR or if we got some dirt roads, like in Tro-Bro Léon.

As far as beating Froome goes, after his dominace last year and Contador's rebound this year (and now a marvelous Nibali), I was truely looking forward to a battle royale in the mountains between all of them. Alas that is not to be and, for me at least, this Tour has lost some of its fasination as a result.

I can sympathize with you on this point. I was looking forward to this too. On the other hand, I think the fact that GT's have been degraded to w/kg contests, only having a battle royale on MTF's is a problem in itself.

In my opinion Nibali got minutes out of Contador, because he was better today. Even if Nibali only wins the TDF because of this while being inferior to Contador in the mountains and the TT, I still feel he fully deserved it. To me there would be no difference to Contador winning the 2012 Vuelta because of Fuente De, while being an inferior climer the rest of the race to Rodriguez and Valverde. It might have spoiled some of the show in the mountains in a way, but I'm very happy that we have more GC relevant KM's than the last 5km of MTF's. I believe this might even give us more of a battle royale in the mountains, because Contador is forced to take back those minutes. It will be all the more incentive for Contador to really give us a battle royale in the mountains, because it is the only way he will win this race.

Also, while disagree but can sympathize with you with regard to missing the show off between Contador, Froome and Nibali on equal footing in the mountains, I cannot sympathize with you and cannot forgive you for calling cobble races a circus.

 

[personal]

I'd like to see some Strade Bianche type stages, too.

Winning TdF means pretty much being best rider in the world.
Well, prove it!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It is great because there have been chances to make serious time early in the race, and now the expected strongest climber arrives at the mountains with a deficit to make up.

The only thing to make it better would be an ITT tomorrow to hammer home the time gaps because of the suffering in today's racing. That would give good reason for a GC candidate to peak for week 1 and look to gain enough to defend later on.

Also, I would like to point out that Cyril Lemoine was an absolute champion today. Haven't seen the likes of this from him since he was with Skil-Shimano five or six years ago.

Maybe if it were every year it would cease to have the same spectacle as the GC guys would get used to it, but I like the French pavé, the Italian strade bianche, and hope for more Spanish hormigón to change things up.

 

[LaFlorecita]

tbh I think Contador lost mostly because he was playing it safe and didnt want to crash. Nibali took more risks and it paid off.

Hmm... maybe

But Contador rode like a ***** today imo.

100% agree, pathetic ride from both him and his team

 

[icefire]

Hinault option: Paris-Roubaix est une connerie.

They might include a stage with cobbles on even years, and a stage with tacks thrown on the road on odd years. Oh... and have a stage with someone shooting randomly at riders on leap years as well.

 

[rhubroma]

This is a good point. I voted for every year because I liked the fact that we finally got proper racing and because I think a stage race should be about more than who has the most w/kg, which today's stage ensured. However, I fully agree we don't want some gimmicky mini Paris Roubaix every year.

It would be great if we got some cobbles that are not in PR or if we got some dirt roads, like in Tro-Bro Léon.



I can sympathize with you on this point. I was looking forward to this too. On the other hand, I think the fact that GT's have been degraded to w/kg contests, only having a battle royale on MTF's is a problem in itself.

In my opinion Nibali got minutes out of Contador, because he was better today. Even if Nibali only wins the TDF because of this while being inferior to Contador in the mountains and the TT, I still feel he fully deserved it. To me there would be no difference to Contador winning the 2012 Vuelta because of Fuente De, while being an inferior climer the rest of the race to Rodriguez and Valverde. It might have spoiled some of the show in the mountains in a way, but I'm very happy that we have more GC relevant KM's than the last 5km of MTF's. I believe this might even give us more of a battle royale in the mountains, because Contador is forced to take back those minutes. It will be all the more incentive for Contador to really give us a battle royale in the mountains, because it is the only way he will win this race.

Also, while disagree but can sympathize with you with regard to missing the show off between Contador, Froome and Nibali on equal footing in the mountains, I cannot sympathize with you and cannot forgive you for calling cobble races a circus.

Fair enough.

 

[Red Lobster]

Lemoine was a stud today but he looked beyond wrecked at the finish. How deep did he go?

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

I know it's the same race promoter but it's very telling that Bore needs to steal Paris-Roubaix's cobbles to get a little bit entertaining.

Cobbles belong to Paris-Roubaix, period. Worst of all is that there are dozens of sections that Paris-Roubaix leaves aside but all the sections of that stage were Paris-Roubaix sections.

The greatness of a Paris-Roubaix is its rarety. Once in a year. Plus a handful of kermess races, that's fine. Too many cobbles kill the cobbles.


I'm against it but of course not for the same reasons as others, of course. When I see all those fanboys whining because it's too inhuman etc of course it kind of makes me advocate for it but I have to stick to my principles !

..and when you see the gaps on such a small part of it, you understand that the full thing is the hardest race that there is !

Is someone forcing you to watch other races than PR? Also, what about all the other cobbled classics? Do cobbles not belong in these cases? I need this info for my book on how to be super trendy and popular on CNF so please let me know.

Also if you could give me a blurb denigrating world class athletes just because they are from north america or some other region you dislike I will include it on the jacket.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Looks like he went really deep, but that's some real pride in the jersey (that has nothing to do with the stage, but he really wanted to show). I was really impressed, did not think he had that in him.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Fair enough.

Just checking back in--and to be fair, I was also looking forward to the Froome/Contador showdown. And I didn't mean "you" you (as in rhubroma) earlier, I meant the general you, as in "one can build a narrative," etc.

Sorry for the misunderstanding! But the cobbles can stay, as far as I'm concerned. I prefer to think of it as expanding a rider's options for gaining time rather than limiting them. Just like a TT for a rouluer or MTF for a pencil neck--even if they both tend to hurt the riders who don't excel. It adds a dimension to the competition.

 

[mr. tibbs]

[...]
The only thing to make it better would be an ITT tomorrow to hammer home the time gaps because of the suffering in today's racing. That would give good reason for a GC candidate to peak for week 1 and look to gain enough to defend later on.
[...]

Ooo good call. Damn shame this isn't the case.

 

[rhubroma]

Just checking back in--and to be fair, I was also looking forward to the Froome/Contador showdown. And I didn't mean "you" you (as in rhubroma) earlier, I meant the general you, as in "one can build a narrative," etc.

Sorry for the misunderstanding! But the cobbles can stay, as far as I'm concerned. I prefer to think of it as expanding a rider's options for gaining time rather than limiting them. Just like a TT for a rouluer or MTF for a pencil neck--even if they both tend to hurt the riders who don't excel. It adds a dimension to the competition.

Thanks for that and I respect your ideas, unfortunately I still see the cobbles as potentially disastrous. For guys who might see an entire year's work go down the drain at the Tour, means the risks outway the advantages. Besides the Tour is dangerous and stressful enough without them, why the need for the "circus" attraction? I know that rings blasphemy to some cobble aficionados, but I really don't mean it in that sense. Since at PR they become pure poetry, whereas at the Tour more P.T. Barnum if you ask me.

The Tour is bigger than one stage in which such risk factor takes on an ominous aspect, as no other terrain presents. For this reason I'd prefer them left out and just enjoy PR in April.

 

[Escarabajo]

Horrible for Colombians!! LOL. But I accept it.

The year that the Tour do the cobbles do the Quintana method. Skip the Tour.

 

[rghysens]

...Contador lost time because he wasn't as good as Nibali...

Contador lost time because he was scared... Have you seen him taking the corners on the cobblestones? The average granny on a bike here does it more fluently.

btw, why should gt's only be decided in the mountains and tt's? Less mountains and tt's, more classic-like stages!
So for me it's: cobbles every time the are riding in "le Nord", which would be every 3-4 years.

 

[Jancouver]

While others would like to ban cobbles, rain, wind, cold/hot weather, narrow roads, steep climbs/descents, TTT and spectators from grand tours I would like to see more stages like today in every TDF.

IMO The race will be better as Berti and others will have to attack and we are in for some spectacular showdown.

... unless he already gave up

 

[DirtyWorks]

Contador lost time because he was scared... Have you seen him taking the corners on the cobblestones? The average granny on a bike here does it more fluently.

btw, why should gt's only be decided in the mountains and tt's? Less mountains and tt's, more classic-like stages!
So for me it's: cobbles every time the are riding in "le Nord", which would be every 3-4 years.

But, he stayed in the race unlike one of his rivals... He didn't lose too much time at it either. And the flip side of that is the effort Nibali put out should cost him later.

Give me some combination of dirt roads, poorly paved roads, fine roads, cobbles in a grand tour and fewer mountains. One or two TT's is good too. We haven't seen the ultra-long TT's in ages. They always did terrible re-ordering to the GC ranks.

 

[Richeypen]

Ultra long Cobbled TT

 

[Broth3r]

I wouldn't mind it every year. We have mountains and TTs every year, why should cobbles be different? "Tradition"?

I do understand it's difficult to do more than one stage of it, though, so if they wish to preserve the pavé's "mystique", I'd go with the general thread sentiment and alternate them with Tro-Bro Léon roads. But not only, preferably. Pavé, sterrato and hormigón are more prevalent in France, Italy and Spain respectively, but that doesn't mean they're exclusive to them.

tl;dr I'd like to see one "rough road" stage every year, with differing surfaces. Pavé, dirt, sterrato, hard gravel, cobbled hills if they can dig some up, an unpaved MTF (or just partially), you name it.

 

[fatsprintking]

I think that as the tour becomes more and more the dominant focus of cycling, that it is important that riders other than pure sprinters, climbers and time trialers are given some chances to shine. I think it was great to see a guy like Lars Boom have a chance to take the chocolates today, and if not for a puncture Sep Van Marke would have been a chance.

So for me I would mix it up a bit from year to year. Some Flanders like cobbled climbs would be a good compromise every few years as this should be manageable for a lot of the overall contenders.

What we saw in the stage today though was that the fight for position coming into the hard sections and the stress that goes with this is what will generally undo the GC guys. That means that teams need to have at least one or two classics type domestiques in their team. I really like this as it gives these types of guys a chance to ride the tour, but it also means a team cannot afford to load up with just climbers. Today we saw the need to be able to quickly form an echelon and to make quick decisions about either hanging onto a bunch in the gutter or forming a separate echelon behind - these are skills which require a certain type of rider brought up with the type of racing to be able to really help a leader. They are the type of skills that 90% of people watching the tour don't know about, but skills that you would hope the biggest race in the world would get a chance to showcase at least a little bit.

 

[thehog]

I don't think anyone would say if Nibali won the Tour based on his Stage 2 & 5 that it would be a bad thing. He has been inspirational. Every opportunity he has had, he has taken and played to his strengths.

Froome attacking a 10km Col at 12% is Nibali hitting the cobbles like he did today. Astana using Westra and Fuslang on the cobbles to perfect is like a Sky using Porte and Nieve.

No difference. Just different terrain.

 

[Red Lobster]

I think that as the tour becomes more and more the dominant focus of cycling, that it is important that riders other than pure sprinters, climbers and time trialers are given some chances to shine. I think it was great to see a guy like Lars Boom have a chance to take the chocolates today, and if not for a puncture Sep Van Marke would have been a chance.

So for me I would mix it up a bit from year to year. Some Flanders like cobbled climbs would be a good compromise every few years as this should be manageable for a lot of the overall contenders.

What we saw in the stage today though was that the fight for position coming into the hard sections and the stress that goes with this is what will generally undo the GC guys. That means that teams need to have at least one or two classics type domestiques in their team. I really like this as it gives these types of guys a chance to ride the tour, but it also means a team cannot afford to load up with just climbers. Today we saw the need to be able to quickly form an echelon and to make quick decisions about either hanging onto a bunch in the gutter or forming a separate echelon behind - these are skills which require a certain type of rider brought up with the type of racing to be able to really help a leader. They are the type of skills that 90% of people watching the tour don't know about, but skills that you would hope the biggest race in the world would get a chance to showcase at least a little bit.

Good thoughts

 

[Boeing]

I just don't see how this type of stage helps determine the fastest bike racer over 3 weeks

its cool to watch but

 

[cineteq]

I just don't see how this type of stage helps determine the fastest bike racer over 3 weeks

its cool to watch but

huh? the fastest bike racer?

 

[Tigerion]

They should make the final ITT on the cobbles

 

[maxmartin]

I just don't see how this type of stage helps determine the fastest bike racer over 3 weeks

its cool to watch but

why don't we put people onto indoor pedal machine, see who can push more watts then give the tour crown to him.