Cobbles in le Tour

[purcell]

I just don't see how this type of stage helps determine the fastest bike racer over 3 weeks

its cool to watch but

If the purpose was to determine the "fastest" bike racer over 3 weeks, they would simply put them on the track in a covered velodrome and count the laps they did in 3 weeks.

This is a contest to determine the most complete racer over a range of tests and challenges. Today presented legitimate challenges.

 

[IndianCyclist]

I would like to put some comments into perspective.
1) Nibali was the only gc contender to gain major time. The rest of the major GC contenders finished between 2-3 mins. What it shows is that Nibali was the only risk taker in the GC contenders.
2) Nibali had a great team with Westra and Fuglsang to help him
3) Kwiatkowski was the other GC contender to finish ~1 min as he is a natural rider of the cobbles.
4) Froome's problem was stage 4 crash and not stage 5. That is what made it extremely difficult for him and he crashed again. He was the only gc contender to DNF
5) Everybody knew the cobbles were coming. Punctures and crashes were expected.
6) Nobody could have predicted the rain 3 months back but everybody knew the rain was a certainty before the race. Without the rain, the GC would have been a lot more normal.
7) The reaction among the riders themselves is mixed. They always have the go slow or neutralization option. After all the riders make the race.
8) Many predicted a Froome-Contador showdown in the mountains for the Dauphine as well and look what happened. The top contenders have been taken out of the race due to crashes before
All in all the cobble stage causes a disturbance in the GC but does not decide the GC but can cause some of the contenders to get eliminated. However rain+cobbles = Carnage and Snow+cobbles = Devastation. So have it every year

 

[thehog]

I would like to put some comments into perspective.
1) Nibali was the only gc contender to gain major time. The rest of the major GC contenders finished between 2-3 mins. What it shows is that Nibali was the only risk taker in the GC contenders.
2) Nibali had a great team with Westra and Fuglsang to help him
3) Kwiatkowski was the other GC contender to finish ~1 min as he is a natural rider of the cobbles.
4) Froome's problem was stage 4 crash and not stage 5. That is what made it extremely difficult for him and he crashed again. He was the only gc contender to DNF
5) Everybody knew the cobbles were coming. Punctures and crashes were expected.
6) Nobody could have predicted the rain 3 months back but everybody knew the rain was a certainty before the race. Without the rain, the GC would have been a lot more normal.
7) The reaction among the riders themselves is mixed. They always have the go slow or neutralization option. After all the riders make the race.
8) Many predicted a Froome-Contador showdown in the mountains for the Dauphine as well and look what happened. The top contenders have been taken out of the race due to crashes before
All in all the cobble stage causes a disturbance in the GC but does not decide the GC but can cause some of the contenders to get eliminated. However rain+cobbles = Carnage and Snow+cobbles = Devastation. So have it every year

The difference today was Westra in the break for Astana and Nibali racing to win.

That was the 2-3 minutes. That is all. Rain, cobbles everything else was the same for all.

 

[karlboss]

Man, I can see that I've come up against the mob here.

Very well then. Let's see if I can make myself any more reasonable.

Froome having a fractured wrist yesterday is news to me. Well if that were the case, then it seems odd that he wasn't appropriately wrapped up for the occassion, or am I wrong about that? Seriously, because he didn't seem to be.

They knew his wrist was doubtful, that strapping is almost a complete cast. It was a pity to see Froome go out, but i don't think the cobbles can be blamed. After the stage 4 crash going into any decisive stage, particularly one with a bottle neck, in the rain could have had the same outcome. I'd have preferred to see him do what Contador did and ride conservatively, giving up time so we could have a real battle in the mountains. Alas, this was just bad luck created by rain and nerves.
On cobbles, I'd like to see them in most 60% of years, but care needs to be taken to schedule them in the safest possible way(which may mean an even longer stage with more cobbles, or later in the race), and don't overuse them as stated there are plenty of interesting ways to make a race in France, don't limit yourself to a formula.

 

[thehog]

They knew his wrist was doubtful, that strapping is almost a complete cast. It was a pity to see Froome go out, but i don't think the cobbles can be blamed. After the stage 4 crash going into any decisive stage, particularly one with a bottle neck, in the rain could have had the same outcome. I'd have preferred to see him do what Contador did and ride conservatively, giving up time so we could have a real battle in the mountains. Alas, this was just bad luck created by rain and nerves.
On cobbles, I'd like to see them in most 60% of years, but care needs to be taken to schedule them in the safest possible way(which may mean an even longer stage with more cobbles, or later in the race), and don't overuse them as stated there are plenty of interesting ways to make a race in France, don't limit yourself to a formula.[/quote]

From that crash he appears to have injured his other side not the wrist.

Nevertheless I believe you are right by the way they taped his handlebars.

[img]http://i60.tinypic.com/157n8e1.jpg

 

[orangerider]

why don't we put people onto indoor pedal machine, see who can push more watts then give the tour crown to him.

Not a bad idea actually - a twist on this by having each rider use a stationary to see what kind of power they put down over time then award time or points somehow. Make a show of it by having a huge overhead LCD showing the figures. Crowds would go wild at that kind of thing, huge potential revenue maker through controlled spectator viewing. Of course, some top riders might intentionally soft pedal to prevent people knowing how much power they can really put down, but that's another topic.

 

[Cookster15]

Of course, makes for Epic racing while we wait for the mountains. Eddy Merckx summed up my thoughts on the subject And love the 3rd option in poll

 

[BYOP88]

Today was a great stage. I'd like to see more cobble stages in the Tour, but not ever year because that would probably get boring. But maybe one year they could do a stage that covers the Tro-Bro Léon route, provided that Cancellara and the Schlecks are ok with it.

 

[The GCW]

From boring to exciting, 2012, 2013 and now 2014

One reason We got treated to cobbles may be due to the boring Tours of the last couple of years. Keep up the boring Tours and fanship will sink. -And organizers know that.

Froomey crashed out and didn't see a cobble.

The last thing I want to see is a bunch of time trials won by a racer that simply sucks wheel otherwise.

I like Telansky's attitude.

This is a Grand 1st week. I remember other 1st weeks where I hardly paid attention. But not this year!

TdF vs. Giro.

 

[rhubroma]

While others would like to ban cobbles, rain, wind, cold/hot weather, narrow roads, steep climbs/descents, TTT and spectators from grand tours I would like to see more stages like today in every TDF.

IMO The race will be better as Berti and others will have to attack and we are in for some spectacular showdown.

... unless he already gave up

This is what I don't get. Because some have questioned the cobbles being fit, or not, at the Tour in the modern era, now we question rain, narrow roads, descents, etc? That is non sequiter logic.

Cycling has changed in many respects since the Merckx era. And, if you ask me, the Cannibal is commenting through nostalgia, rather than reason. (But, after all, he's the same man who thinks we should just stop talking about doping, because it gives a bad image to cycling, which is doing more than any sport, etc.).

The fact is that the big GT racers don't ride PR anymore and there is a reason for that. It's not because they are less hard, but because modern cycling is just different. The speeds are higher and so is the overall level of fitness.

When riders today take on PR, they fully accept the risks involved obviously, because it has become a pure specialists event, while 30 years ago you had GT guys at PR, so they had a preparation that reflected the mores of that age. By contrast today you have big favorites that have never ridden on them. Nor will they ever be expected to during their career, because they are targeted to win the Tour. Like it or not, it is simply modern cycling. It thus doesn't make sense to me that, despite this reality, they should be expected to at the Tour.

You put inexperienced guys at those speeds in the rain, with the pressure to win at the Tour, and you risk more than just some bad crashes. For a GT it seems to me like something unnecessary and to be avoided. I realize most don't agree, though.

 

[jaylew]

honestly, nobody can complain about the cobbles. almost all of the crashes were on the tarmac and none of the time gaps were caused by crashes. it was fantastic.

Well, that part is completely untrue.

 

[The Hegelian]

I have to admit, I was getting really over the build-up.....the word 'cobble' was used in every second sentence, and it just seemed a bit gimmicky and over-hyped. For that reason, was sort of expecting an anti-climax.

But jeez, it turned out every bit as intense and dramatic as the hype was suggesting; and it wasn't like all the GC contenders had everything to lose and nothing to gain - one of them showed a pedigree and class that hasn't been seen for ages.

So yeah, every few years for sure. Bit of rain if possible too!

 

[Richeypen]

I have to admit, I was getting really over the build-up.....the word 'cobble' was used in every second sentence, and it just seemed a bit gimmicky and over-hyped. For that reason, was sort of expecting an anti-climax.

But jeez, it turned out every bit as intense and dramatic as the hype was suggesting; and it wasn't like all the GC contenders had everything to lose and nothing to gain - one of them showed a pedigree and class that hasn't been seen for ages.

So yeah, every few years for sure. Bit of rain if possible too!

Roadside sprinklers

 

[The Hegelian]

For sure. We need cross winds too - any ideas for that?

 

[movingtarget]

It's part of pro cycling. Just as well the other two sectors of pave were not included as Contador's race would be all over. Every few year's is a good idea. They should do the same with team time trials. Making the routes more interesting is always a battle for the organisers but I think this year's is not too bad.

 

[The Sheep]

Eddy Planckaert on the belgian pre-race-show yesterday was jokingly saying add a whole week of stages like that after he heard about complaints. I actually think that would be great idea if they could find more places with cobblestones. The only problem is the riders battling in those type of stages and getting a lot of time not being able to battle with the riders in the mountains but Nibali and Fuglsang showed that hasn't to be the case.

 

[greenedge]

I would love to see a RVVesque stage before the next time on flat cobbles and cobbles should be included on an average of 1/3 TDF's

 

[Jagartrott]

I would love to see a RVVesque stage before the next time on flat cobbles and cobbles should be included on an average of 1/3 TDF's

I would like a RVV stage and a P-R stage alternating in different years in le Tour. I think these kinds of races have a place in a stage race. Why include sprints, TT (and TTT), hilly stages and mountain stages, but not another important part of cycling - the Northern Classics? It's not as if this is some kind of artificial idea to increase tension. Cobbles have been part of cycling since forever, and the material nowadays is far superior than 50 years ago.

Also, I think the rain made the cobbles safer this year. You fall at higher speeds and on a rougher surface during a dry stage than during this one.

 

[Fight.The.Power]

Talking about alternative surfaces on the Tour, did you see Froome riding underneath La Manche recently ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-UNDER-sea-England-France-channel-tunnel.html

How about that for a stage eh ? London to Calais directly ?

The helicopter boys will have a nice break that day too !

 

[jens_attacks]

once in 4-5 years is definitely ok. every year, not.

 

[RedheadDane]

Voted for the second opinion; they are part of the landscape, and as such should be used, but not every year.

Didn't see anyone crash out on the actual cobbles, a good inclusion to the race I think.

I saw one rather epic one. Except it was more a case of crashing off the cobbles.

 

[Echoes]

This is a good point. I voted for every year because I liked the fact that we finally got proper racing and because I think a stage race should be about more than who has the most w/kg, which today's stage ensured. However, I fully agree we don't want some gimmicky mini Paris Roubaix every year.

It would be great if we got some cobbles that are not in PR or if we got some dirt roads, like in Tro-Bro Léon.

But that would be a disaster for me. Wouldn't you rather first have more TV coverage of the Tro Bro? Perhaps a better status in the cycling calendar (though I realize that it might create some problems because the likes of Petit and Le Bon also need their races) before having the Tour of France steal the 'ribins' ?

There must also be races outside it. I like the idea that riders have to be able to ride every kind of road ... but then on different races. I'd encourage Nibali to race Paris-Roubaix. He definitely can do it, propably not for the win but he can do well on it.

Why wishing the Tour of France to be so hard? Because it equates with cycling? No, I keep in mind that ideally these riders have to go all the way to Lombardy.

Hinault option: Paris-Roubaix est une connerie.

As a matter of fact, Hinault loves Paris-Roubaix. That comment was just sour grapes for losing to Moser (1980 edition).

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

As a matter of fact, Hinault loves Paris-Roubaix. That comment was just sour grapes for losing to Moser (1980 edition).

Are you sure about that?

You will never make me take back what I have already said about Paris-Roubaix. It's a big nonsense!

Quoted immediately after winning the 1981 Paris–Roubaix.

 

[Vino's Mum]

^ lol.

"It's a big nonsense" isn't exactly a good translation of "C'est une connerie."

"It's bull****" would be more accurate.

As I said in another thread, the Badger pulled out of the 1980 Tour with tendonitis brought on by hard riding on cobbles on stage 5, in yellow, in terrible weather, after gaining two minutes. #prayfornibali

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I think the use of cobbles should be selectively. Winning a GT (imo) should be about excelling in many facets of cycling and that each edition should weigh the usage of these in a different way. Of course, the mountains will always be the centrepiece but I do not see why some editions should be slightly more ITT based, some using more punchy stages as well as the cobbles.

The mountains are the final proving ground but if you have the skill for the other stages then you should have a chance to use it. It also means that the riders that don't have the skill then have to attack in the mountains and should make for a more entertaining race.

Using it (the same areas) too much may also take away some of uniqueness that is bestowed upon PR.