Conta-do over? Will ban be reversed?

[Cloxxki]

Funny how the unlikely food contamination (due to instant halflife of the substance) somehow is more likely than said substance, being extremely effective as PED, and popular due to the short halflife, to actually be used as PED.

 

[GJB123]

+1



+1



he sais it points clearly in the direction of a food contamination. That is dubious, since there are several other options that he's not considering. Then him advising Vascansoleil is dubious, him being a UCI-doctor is dubious.

Time to take off the blinders, I'd say.

Why is that dubious? If you are a scientist you should have no problem disproving him. I am eagerly awaiting your proof. If you are just someone spouting baseless nonsens on a cycling forum it is perhaps time start ignoring you altogether.

Regards
GJ

 

[GJB123]

proof and dubious don't go together, you know that, right?

I am awaiting your "explanation" then, if you like that word better than "proof". You can dance all around the words as much as you like, but you offered up didley sh*t to show why De Boer is dubious and why now all other 14 scientists who couldn't connect the dots (that are supposedly so easy to connect for solid case of blood doping) should be dubious as well and corrupt for that matter. No amount of word games is gonna get you out of that one, I am afraid.

Regards
GJ

 

[sniper]

I am awaiting your "explanantion" then, if you like that word better than "proof". You can dance all around the words as much as you like, but you offered up didley sh*t to show why De Boer is dubious and why now all other 14 scientists who couldn't connect the dots (that are supposedly so easy to connect for solid case of blood doping) should be dubious as well and corrupt for that matter. No amount of word games is gonna get you out of that one, I am afraid.

Regards
GJ

Manual:
step 1: remove said didley sh*t from eyes.
step 2: check dictionary for definition of dubious
step 3: check previous posts

 

[GJB123]

Manual:
step 1: remove said didley sh*t from eyes.
step 2: check dictionary for definition of dubious
step 3: check previous posts

No amount of word games is gonna get you out of that one, I am afraid.

Nice try though. It was funny, so I might just keep you of the ignor(e)/(ance)-list after all.

But when can we expect an explanation why all the 14 other scientists are also dubious? Or is it just that they do not agree with the ironclad case you managed to construct out of tidbits of information on the www, forums, etc. and therefore must be "unwilling" instead of "unable" to see the truth as clearly as you see it?

Regards
GJ

 

[DAOTEC]

I will be convinced that the sport is seriously f***** if Contador's ban gets reversed.

There is no ban dude, yeah, in the media but we know ur (Evans) agenda by now ...

Why is that dubious? If you are a scientist you should have no problem disproving him. I am eagerly awaiting your proof. If you are just someone spouting baseless nonsens on a cycling forum it is perhaps time start ignoring you altogether.

Regards
GJ

“Laboratories must be able to find 1.00 ng/mL, while a normal threshold value is considered to be 2.00 ng/mL. The value of 0.05-0.10 ng/mL that was found in Fuyu Li’s body points clearly in the direction of a contamination. On top of that, such a low dose would not help his performance in any way.”

So I fail to see how this particular quote shows De Boer is dubious. Yes, he is not throwing a clen-positive rider under the train just because we have strict liability rules but rather he is merely giving his scientific opinion on this particular case. What's supposed to be wrong with that?

Regards
GJ

Very good stuff GJ

, I have to do noting here this time around to enlighten the blind haha

 

[Berzin]

I for one am hoping the ban is lifted.

I want Contador to keep his 2010 Tour title and be able to defend it again this year.

His transgression was way too minor for all the drama that has ensued over it.

Time to put it behind us and let the racing begin.

Alberto has learned two lessons from this-

1) Store the to-be-transfused blood in a bottle and not plastic, and...

2)...have the blood checked for stuff like clenbutarol and anything else he may be ingesting when having blood taken out.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Read what he said again, because basically he is saying the same thing as yourself. He is not claiming there is a threshold, he is saying that more and more scientists believe that due to environmental contamination the threshold should be set at 2.00 ng/ml. All else is mincing words.



So I fail to see how this particular quote shows De Boer is dubious. Yes, he is not throwing a clen-positive rider under the train just because we have strict liability rules but rather he is merely giving his scientific opinion on this particular case. What's supposed to be wrong with that?

Regards
GJ

I have read it again - and the highlighted is exactly what he is saying.

“Laboratories must be able to find 1.00 ng/mL, while a normal threshold value is considered to be 2.00 ng/mL. The value of 0.05-0.10 ng/mL that was found in Fuyu Li’s body points clearly in the direction of a contamination. On top of that, such a low dose would not help his performance in any way.”

Someone of De Boers experience knows the difference between threshold and MRPL and by claiming that 2.0ng is a threshold is 'dubious' at best.

 

[hrotha]

I for one am hoping the ban is lifted.

I want Contador to keep his 2010 Tour title and be able to defend it again this year.

His transgression was way too minor for all the drama that has ensued over it.

Time to put it behind us and let the racing begin.

Alberto has learned two lessons from this-

1) Store the to-be-transfused blood in a bottle and not plastic, and...

2)...have the blood checked for stuff like clenbutarol and anything else he may be ingesting when having blood taken out.

How can you say his transgression was minor when you acknowledge it was probably a transfusion?

 

[palmerq]

What an incoherent pile of rubbish. WADA should and probably was going to appeal even the One year ban and give him the 2 he deserves. But now the Spanish have lost what little credibility they regained with their initial 1 year proposal.

what :S I think he should have got a 2 year ban... a 1 year ban makes no sense at all, it should be 2 or nothing.

 

[Christian]

Ugh I like Zapatero ... made a lot of hard decisions and exposed uncomfortable truths, but I guess he didn't have the guts to do it this time. It's a shame, really. Since he's not going to get re-elected anyways (for the reasons stated above) he might as well have gone all out on this.

 

[hrotha]

It's a disgrace that the president, who doesn't even have a scientific background, would speak publicly about this at a time when the RFEC is supposed to be studying Contador's allegations objectively. No wonder they see us as a country of dopers.

 

[GJB123]

I have read it again - and the highlighted is exactly what he is saying.



Someone of De Boers experience knows the difference between threshold and MRPL and by claiming that 2.0ng is a threshold is 'dubious' at best.

Either your reading skills are failing you or you are taking things way out of context. He knows the difference between MRPL and a thershold. He ven states the MRPL. He just feels that the MRPL is set so low that it also catches out those who ingest Clen accidentally. In doing so, he is claiming that the prevailing scientific opinion seems to be that a threshold of 2.00 ng/ml is reasonable if one one wants to exclude cases of accidental ingestion or contamination. Nothing dubious about that, just a scientist's opinion and apparently not the only one having that opinion.

Regards
GJ

 

[GJB123]

It's a disgrace that the president, who doesn't even have a scientific background, would speak publicly about this at a time when the RFEC is supposed to be studying Contador's allegations objectively. No wonder they see us as a country of dopers.

Not good indeed. I would just wish that all parties not directly involved and not privvy to the full files would abstain from publicly stating their opinion. That applies to Zapatero as wel as to McQuaid and anybody else.

Regards
GJ

 

[DAOTEC]

It's a disgrace that the president, who doesn't even have a scientific background, would speak publicly about this at a time when the RFEC is supposed to be studying Contador's allegations objectively. No wonder they see us as a country of dopers.

Who? for god sake are "¿they" ... them anglo-chain big fat ($$) Mac is referring to all the time ...
Don't discredit your proud country hrotha, "they¡" as you call them are not worth it ...
.

 

[Met de Versnelling]

are you saying contador has a uci permit for high blood values ? i've been following this case pretty closely and hear this for the first time.

please provide the source.

we hardly need anymore misinformation and conjecture than already out there.

Python, my comment was directed at the post regarding Ricco. Which quite frankly, should have been clear, given there was a double quote with Ricco mentioned.

 

[Chuffy]

Not good indeed. I would just wish that all parties not directly involved and not privvy to the full files would abstain from publicly stating their opinion. That applies to Zapatero as wel as to McQuaid and anybody else.

Regards
GJ

Fair enough, but when has 'no comment' ever been seen as a reasonable response, either to journalists or Clinic dwellers?

 

[RGScales]

Off to CAS we go.

He'll get a year, regardless.

CAS might back date the ban to the Tour if they give him a year, means he could still ride the Vuelta.

Unless WADA/UCI can make the plasticisers stick, then his defence will in all likelihood (and this is just my opinion), stick at CAS.

Personally, i think he doped, and should get a 2 year ban. But it's more than conceivable that a year is all he will get.

I just woke up to the news regarding a possible overturn of AC's suspension...two questions regarding it. If, indeed, he is not suspended by RFEC, can another governing body such as the UCI then appeal that decision and take the case to CAS? If that is what happens, will Contador then be free to race until CAS decides the case?
I am fairly certain that the answer to both of my questions is yes but I wanted to clarify for my own knowledge.
thanks.

 

[python]

Python, my comment was directed at the post regarding Ricco. Which quite frankly, should have been clear, given there was a double quote with Ricco mentioned.

thanks. i haven't read the entire thread and the reference to ricco alluded me. you're quite correct re ricco and that (to avoid offtopic) has bothered me too.

regarding de boer's knowledge (or the lack thereof) related to what is clenbuterol's threashold , people may want to keep in mind that various quoted articles in english occasionally confuse technical terms when translating from other languages.

de boer is a paid expert for contador NOW who in his previous life ran wada laboratory in lisbon. not only he knows what mrpl is (as his lab had to comply with it) he also as all lab directors helped to write the relevant wada document or at least had to comment on it.

that said, his position despite his tremendous knowledge is biased for the obvious reasons.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Either your reading skills are failing you or you are taking things way out of context. He knows the difference between MRPL and a thershold. He ven states the MRPL. He just feels that the MRPL is set so low that it also catches out those who ingest Clen accidentally. In doing so, he is claiming that the prevailing scientific opinion seems to be that a threshold of 2.00 ng/ml is reasonable if one one wants to exclude cases of accidental ingestion or contamination. Nothing dubious about that, just a scientist's opinion and apparently not the only one having that opinion.

Regards
GJ

Nothing wrong with my reading skills -lets take it from the top:

“Laboratories must be able to find 1.00 ng/mL, while a normal threshold value is considered to be 2.00 ng/mL. The value of 0.05-0.10 ng/mL that was found in Fuyu Li’s body points clearly in the direction of a contamination. On top of that, such a low dose would not help his performance in any way.”

"Laboratories must be able to find 1.00 ng/mL" - incorrect, the MRPL is 2.00ng/ml
"while a normal threshold value is considered to be 2.00 ng/mL" - there is no threshold, that is the MRPL.
"The value of 0.05-0.10 ng/mL that was found in Fuyu Li’s body points clearly in the direction of a contamination" - clearly the Chinese Fed did not agree with him.
"On top of that, such a low dose would not help his performance in any way." - the clen would deplete over time, so the amount found has little to do with what was originally taken.

 

[GJB123]

Nothing wrong with my reading skills -lets take it from the top:



"Laboratories must be able to find 1.00 ng/mL" - incorrect, the MRPL is 2.00ng/ml
"while a normal threshold value is considered to be 2.00 ng/mL" - there is no threshold, that is the MRPL.
"The value of 0.05-0.10 ng/mL that was found in Fuyu Li’s body points clearly in the direction of a contamination" - clearly the Chinese Fed did not agree with him.
"On top of that, such a low dose would not help his performance in any way." - the clen would deplete over time, so the amount found has little to do with what was originally taken.

Stop already, I am convinced. Not by your arguments, mind you, but by the fact the guy led the WADA laboratory in Lisbon., and we all know that anything to do with WADA is notably dubious.

Regards
GJ

 

[sniper]

Stop already, I am convinced. Not by your arguments, mind you, but by the fact the guy led the WADA laboratory in Lisbon., and we all know that anything to do with WADA is notably dubious.

Regards
GJ

please note that Doc's arguments aren't just arguments, they are facts.

don't bother me with the facts

 

[GJB123]

That last quote is rich coming from someone from whom most of the postings in this topic seem to be based on anything but facts (unless you have suddenly been privvy to the entire dossier of Contador).

Regards
GJ

 

[Señor_Contador]

It's a disgrace that the president, who doesn't even have a scientific background, would speak publicly about this at a time when the RFEC is supposed to be studying Contador's allegations objectively. No wonder they see us as a country of dopers.

That's because the ones pointing the finger are a bunch of hypocrites unwilling to look at their own countries.

 

[sniper]

That's because the ones pointing the finger are a bunch of hypocrites unwilling to look at their own countries.

I don't like Pat, but when he said Spain has a doping problem, one could only nod in agreement.

I mean, should he have said: "but Ireland has a doping problem as well" ..? He could have, but it wouldn't have affected the validity of his first statement anyway.

It may all be different tomorrow, but currently there is one European country in particular that stands out because of obvious problems with doping and I hate to break it to ya, but that country is Spain.