Contador acquitted

[Hugh Januss]

All you guys/girls; I know you just LOVE posting & ranting, but would like to remind you that, in LAW, the presumption is INNOCENCE!!
It's time we started to apply this to athletes.
If Contador is guilty of something, prove it BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT, or F**k off, stop whining, & get out & ride your bikes more instead of sitting around all day typing ****!

Good job, you are not a full blown idiot fanboy unless you include this line, and you worked it in nicely.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Except, if the transfusion theory is correct, then his inconsequential picograms of clen are precisely equal to bags full of stale blood.

If (and I'm saying this only for the sake of the argument) the clen is from tainted beef and it could be proven (to a reasonable degree), I think everybody would agree to let Dertie go.

The point is that a lot of people here don't believe this scenario.

What I want to see is a good argument why the transfusion theory was ruled out.

1. The transfusion theory based on the plasticizers test cannot be proven because the originator of the test has publictly spoken against its use in sports, alleging that the test is not developed enough for its use in sports (doping) testing protocols.

2. As far as proving the transfusion from the blood passport point of view... Alberto has stated in public that the UCI and the RFEC have access to his blood passport and that they are welcomed to analyze it as many times as they want, which they have (at least the RFEC), according to the allegations report submitted by AC to the RFEC.

 

[roundabout]

Is there a link to a decision explaining the reasons, or all that is available are some educated guesses?

According to the disciplinary committee president it was new evidence that made the difference.

A raid in Leon?

Something else?

 

[sniper]

Although I can't agree with you more... what I find terribly insulting from cycling fans, some of whom probably haven't ridden their bicycles since Nixon was president, is how quickly they turn their backs on the cyclists.

To me, people like Landis, Hamilton, Contador, Pantani or Ulrich are still heros. I don't really care what they took to get to where they got. I really don't.

so why tha F are you wastin your time in the clinic?

 

[hrotha]

The Real Federación Española de Ciclismo came out with a ruling proposal??? That's news to me. Are you sure you're not talking about AC's alegations to the RFEC? I don't think the RFEC is in the business of proposing rules, it makes decisions (rules) and expects its afiliates to either accept them or appeal them.

No. Unlike you, I appear to have read both Contador's defense statement and the RFEC's ruling proposal. They're different things. Here you are:
http://estaticos.elmundo.es/documentos/2011/02/09/propuesta_contador_rfec.pdf

 

[Beech Mtn]

i hate to say it but but regarding fuyu li i think you have to consider the racist aspect. i don't recall seeing much in the way of protests in his favor, and when i brought it up a while back one poster said that "he didn't matter." to a certain extent that can be attributed the fact that contador is a star and li isn't, but unfortunately i don't believe that's completely the case. jingoism is alive and well here.

I think with regards to Fuyu Li, you also have to consider that politics may have played a part in his case, just like in Contador's case. Whereas the Spanish fed may want to save their star rider, the Chinese fed may want to avoid having to officially admit that clenbuterol poisoning is a problem in their country. The Chinese government may have a dim view of broadcasting clenbuterol usage in food for many reasons - international businesses being careful what they import from China (British toothpaste companies, for example), also tourism concerns, and plain old national pride.

Yes, Fuyu Li's positive was announced by the UCI way earlier than Ac's positive. But it was his national federation that chose to sanction him for the full two years rather than be lenient.

It will be interesting to see what happens to his case in light of AC's acquittal today.

 

[sniper]

Thank you Friebe
My argument a lot better articulated:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/media-reactions-to-contadors-clearing-on-doping-charges

great stuff from Friebe and Jones indeed.
A big +1 to CN for collecting these opinions.

 

[GoGarmin]

I have been a cyclist for over 20 years now and always as a huge fan of the professionals, this is too much for me to stomach and I have lived through the real ****... Festina, Telekom, Puerto, Hamilton, Flandis, etc... the man is guilty and has gotten off on a technicality (until the appeal to WADA at least) if he is in the Tour this year it will be the first time since 1987 that I do not watch it. I suspect that alot of pros are not racing on bread and water alone but I can kid myself when it is just a suspicion, however, to be caught and still get more money in a year than I will earn as a teacher in my life means that there is something very rotten in the state of Denmark. I would hate to turn my back on the sport which has given me so much pleasure for so long but if he rides then so do I... away from any television coverage of any race here his name in on the start sheet. So what? he may say, but if enough fans do this the sponsors will leave and cycling will be forced to face its demons and as a sport do the right thing.

This is very well said and ... I agree. This is an absolute travesty and if not overturned will put me off the sport for good.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm late to the party here, having read through as many posts as possible. I can only say that I'm not at all surprised, but disappointed.

If this isn't appealed by WADA or the UCI to CAS immediately, then I don't know what to think, as it will change the dynamic of what constitutes "proof" and Contador's argument will be used by every doper in the future.

 

[roundabout]

I think with regards to Fuyu Li, you also have to consider that politics may have played a part in his case, just like in Contador's case. Whereas the Spanish fed may want to save their star rider, the Chinese fed may want to avoid having to officially admit that clenbuterol poisoning is a problem in their country. The Chinese government may have a dim view of broadcasting clenbuterol usage in food for many reasons - international businesses being careful what they import from China (British toothpaste companies, for example), also tourism concerns, and plain old national pride.

Yes, Fuyu Li's positive was announced by the UCI way earlier than Ac's positive. But it was his national federation that chose to sanction him for the full two years rather than be lenient.

It will be interesting to see what happens to his case in light of AC's acquittal today.

So clenbuterol poisoning is now officially a problem in Spain?

Guess i was really lucky that i was there when it wasn't "officially" a problem.

 

[Publicus]

I think with regards to Fuyu Li, you also have to consider that politics may have played a part in his case, just like in Contador's case. Whereas the Spanish fed may want to save their star rider, the Chinese fed may want to avoid having to officially admit that clenbuterol poisoning is a problem in their country. The Chinese government may have a dim view of broadcasting clenbuterol usage in food for many reasons - international businesses being careful what they import from China (British toothpaste companies, for example), also tourism concerns, and plain old national pride.

Yes, Fuyu Li's positive was announced by the UCI way earlier than Ac's positive. But it was his national federation that chose to sanction him for the full two years rather than be lenient.

It will be interesting to see what happens to his case in light of AC's acquittal today.

Did Fuyu argue that he got it from food contamination from Chinese meat? I thought he tested positive during a race control in Belgium--if I recall correctly the whole Radio Shack team came down with some mysterious illness that caused Lance to pull out of a race along with a number of other riders.

 

[sniper]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/medi...doping-charges

"Bravo, Spain, you've come up with a scenario so implausible that I couldn't have imagined it in my wildest fantasies."

 

[Broken Spoke]

All you guys/girls; I know you just LOVE posting & ranting, but would like to remind you that, in LAW, the presumption is INNOCENCE!!
It's time we started to apply this to athletes.
If Contador is guilty of something, prove it BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT, or F**k off, stop whining, & get out & ride your bikes more instead of sitting around all day typing ****!

Umm... About the only thing that HAS been proven beyond reasonable doubt in this case is that AC had clenbuterol in his sample. The steak, the absence of knowledge or negligence - these are unproven defence arguments presented by his legal team. Once you test positive and don't challenge the actual test result (he hasn't), you are GUILTY of having a prohibited substance in your system. The onus is then back on you to present any mitigating circumstances.

There is no suspicion that he ingested clenbuterol - he did. He's not arguing that the test result is wrong, so on a very basic level he is GUILTY of testing positive for clenbuterol.

 

[Hugh Januss]

1. The transfusion theory based on the plasticizers test cannot be proven because the originator of the test has publictly spoken against its use in sports, alleging that the test is not developed enough for its use in sports doping testing protocols.

2. As far as proving the transfusion from the blood passport point of view... Alberto has stated in public that the UCI and the RFEC have access to his blood passport and that they are welcomed to analyze it as many times as they want.

I wonder though, if WADA could use the test results in front of CAS to suggest that a transfusion is a more plausible explanation than tainted beef. Not that he is guilty of transfusing his blood but that by probably having done so he has made the most likely reason the clen showed up be that he was illegally using it earlier in the year rather than being contaminated by a steak. Convoluted perhaps, but no more so than the other places we have been in this case.

 

[maratsafin]

unbelievable

: total nightmare as he's guilty as sin.

 

[Publicus]

I wonder though, if WADA could use the test results in front of CAS to suggest that a transfusion is a more plausible explanation than tainted beef. Not that he is guilty of transfusing his blood but that by probably having done so he has made the most likely reason the clen showed up be that he was illegally using it earlier in the year rather than being contaminated by a steak. Convoluted perhaps, but no more so than the other places we have been in this case.

How would they make that argument? Unlike the Clinic, stating your argument forcefully without evidence (circumstantial or otherwise) is just ranting in court.

 

[sniper]

How would they make that argument? Unlike the Clinic, stating your argument forcefully without evidence (circumstantial or otherwise) is just ranting in court.

it has worked for Alberto so far

EDIT: 'd love to see WADA giving AC a cooky of his own recipy.

 

[hfer07]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/medi...doping-charges

"Bravo, Spain, you've come up with a scenario so implausible that I couldn't have imagined it in my wildest fantasies."

Let's see what you might say about USA if Armstrong is acquitted .......

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Problem with that Hugh/Senor Cotnador is that it clouds the point. At issue is not having to prove that he blood doped. It's that he had clen in his system, which is against the rules. That's where the rules should end. You can speculate to your heart's desire how it got there, but that's not relevant to the rules.

 

[Lanark]

Did Fuyu argue that he got it from food contamination from Chinese meat? I thought he tested positive during a race control in Belgium--if I recall correctly the whole Radio Shack team came down with some mysterious illness that caused Lance to pull out of a race along with a number of other riders.

I believe Li was in China shortly before he rode Dwars door Vlaanderen (where he was caught). Like Contador, he also hired Douwe de Boer to argue that it was a case of food contamination, the Chinese apparently weren't impressed.

 

[Publicus]

it has worked for Alberto so far

EDIT: 'd love to see WADA giving AC a cooky of his own recipy.

LOL. He must have a stunt double doing the arguing, because I can't see AC making a very forceful argument.

EDIT:

I believe Li was in China shortly before he rode Dwars door Vlaanderen (where he was caught). Like Contador, he also hired Douwe de Boer to argue that it was a case of food contamination, the Chinese apparently weren't impressed.

Thanks for clarifying Lanark. If I was Li, then I would be more than a little upset. Did he appeal his ban to CAS?

 

[hrotha]

Problem with that Hugh/Senor Cotnador is that it clouds the point. At issue is not having to prove that he blood doped. It's that he had clen in his system, which is against the rules. That's where the rules should end. You can speculate to your heart's desire how it got there, but that's not relevant to the rules.

Disagree. The RFEC's ruling was all about how the three alternative hypotheses (blood transfusion, clen microdosing, contaminated supplements) had to be ruled out, making food contamination the only explanation, despite the fact that the very same ruling pointed out Contador didn't and couldn't prove his theory was true.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Disagree. The RFEC's ruling was all about how the three alternative hypotheses...

I'm not talking about the RFEC ruling. I'm talking about WADA code and UCI rules accordingly. If this ruling by RFEC is not appealed or it is upheld by CAS, then every doper in the future is going to claim contamination from something, and demand that it's proven otherwise.

RFEC operates on it's own planet. If they had their way cycling should join the WWE.

 

[rickshaw]

well, this about does it for me. Sure "they" might not all be doping all the time, but can there be any doubt that the entire cycling establishment, from the lowest 15 year old Italian cyclist ( Ricco) right up to the Prime Minister of Spain (FGS) are at the very least complicit in doping? Everything about professional cycling stinks. It is a rotten cesspool, beyond redemption.

bravo OJ.. I mean AC, you beat the rap

 

[sniper]

I'm not talking about the RFEC ruling. I'm talking about WADA code and UCI rules accordingly. If this ruling by RFEC is not appealed or it is upheld by CAS, then every doper in the future is going to claim contamination from something, and demand that it's proven otherwise.

RFEC operates on it's own planet. If they had their way cycling should join the WWE.

+1
opinions of the same tenor:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/media-reactions-to-contadors-clearing-on-doping-charges