Contador and Spanish cycling

[ChrisE]

Jesus Christ, did you even follow the various Contador threads? Other than Berzin and one or two others, everyone here was pretty consistent.

Sure I did, you tell me what was going on in 2009 unless you have selective memory loss. I recall way more than Berzin, with the doper in his avatar running around the clinic slamming LA and giving other dopers a pass, coming to the aid of the sympathetic figure doped up AC when LA took his wheels. The AC that scorched the last TT that year and put the numbers on Verbier. I also recall getting in the usual arguments at the time pointing out what I am pointing out now. It's all about who LA's enemy is at the time, and that results in get out of jail free cards.

To think AC, of all people, would come out and jam LA right now with his intertwined past, and the resulting outrage shown in the clinic for his actions today is beyond hysterical.

I guess he doesn't hold a grudge about dinner table meanies, or having to borrow TT wheels lol. Maybe you clowns should have realized that at the time. Nah, that would be asking too much.

 

[Deagol]

I disagree with most of you, I'm afraid. I read AC comments as being mostly about being tactful and neutral, and not throwing Armstrong under the bus. This is NOT the same as supporting what LA did, an expression of Omerta, etc. Sure, he was wrong about the "no new tests" bit, but the 2009-10 blood results have been underplayed in the English media, and likely so elsewhere, and I don't know why anyone would expect AC to read the entire (English) reasoned-decision. Besides, technically speaking it was NOT a new "failed test", so he is not even that wrong.

That issue aside, what else did he say that was not true, incorrect, or supportive of a doping culture? To me he seemed to be expressing mostly sympathy for a fellow cyclist who certainly has been "lynched" in that most of his former supporters who also certainly knew LA was guilty have turned on LA just to protect their own interests. He might simply being showing some empathy since he too recently suffered terribly because of a doping scandal. Not everything is a cover-up or a doping scandal, and not everything is about the cycling business. Sometimes it's just a man watching a fallen peer and thinking "there but for the grace of God go I".

Showing sympathy for a guilty person's suffering is NOT the same as condoning what that person did.

LA was not lynched at all, this is such a stupid argument. He had ample opportunity to come forward prior to any of this and also opened up a court case to stop the procedure. He then had the further opportunity to address the charges head-on as any other rider would have. There is nothing resembling a lynch here. It might **** off his supporters that everything seemed stacked against him in their eyes, but the thing they are missing is that he actually did these things, therefore the evidence was overwhelming.

 

[Albatros]

I'm not a Clinic paranoiac, I try to keep a balance, I believe the Cadel is probably clean, hell I even believe in Wiggins (flame away...), but the point is that I despise the denial of so many riders, I'm incredibly disappointed in Indurain for what he said, and McQuaid should lose his job right now. His response against the whistleblowers has been utterly despicable, get rid of him now, mealy mouthed crook. Really angry at the moment.

Why are u disappointed with Indurain? He is telling us in a not so subtle way anymore that he did dope too. He is actually confessing.

Far braver than the Lemonds and Wiggins who hypocritically are saying the right words to convince the peloton of fan boys that doping has no place in cycling..... except by their massage table.

 

[ChrisE]

Why are u disappointed with Indurain? He is telling us in a not so subtle way anymore that he did dope too. He is actually confessing.

Far braver than the Lemonds and Wiggins who hypocritically are saying the right words to convince the peloton of fan boys that doping has no place in cycling..... except by their massage table.

Wig won some clean points today by saying LA is not Santa Claus. GL has lifetime cover in here. Stop spitting in the clinic soup.

 

[Altitude]

I much prefer the comments of Contador, Indurain, Valverde to those of Wiggins, Merckx, Millar. At least the former crew aren't lying directly to your face. Think about it, YOU knew what was going on the whole time, but THEY (Wiggins and co.) didn't? They were totally in the dark regarding Lance's doping until the phucking USADA "reasoned decision"? Really?

At least Contador is staying consistent, showing some backbone. Up until yesterday Wiggins was driving the Lance bandwagon, with Mcquaid riding shotgun. Either these "shocked and appalled" former riders are the dumbest, most naive people on the face of the earth, or they are self serving liars.

Wiggins' "father christmas" reference was particularly idiotic.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

No, I am pointing out your etal hypocrisy as I always have, and how you etal don't give a **** about PED use in cycling. If it wasn't for LA this forum would have 10% the posts over the last years, if that. My post is not about LA, it is about the assclowns in the clinic.

AC today is the same AC that LA was mean to in 2009. Now he is the enemy for doing what he has always done, IOW enforce omerta. FL would still be slammed if LA would have given him a job in 2010. Look in the mirror MM. You are the problem.

I realize that Armstrong's downfall has been hard on fanboys such as yourself, so I'm going to ignore that fantasy post with which you just polluted the board.

 

[Cozy Beehive]

Contador again comes out to bootlick Armstrong and the doping culture. I have been a big fan of Spanish cycling over the years, from Heras to Mayo to Contador, but I am disgusted with them and Spanish sports in general. I've defended and praised Contador here, time and time again. No longer.

They've all shown themselves to be complete frauds, fully invested in the culture of doping and omerta.

I wondered about this today. Sure, Contador could have been a bit more neutral. But he sure is not lying. Armstrong is being buried six feet under by all the cronies he had in his bandwagon. But is that the public's fault? The higher you rise, the bigger the fall and in the celebrity world, this couldn't ring more truer. Lance has brought most of this upon himself.

 

[richwagmn]

Why are u disappointed with Indurain? He is telling us in a not so subtle way anymore that he did dope too. He is actually confessing.

Far braver than the Lemonds and Wiggins who hypocritically are saying the right words to convince the peloton of fan boys that doping has no place in cycling..... except by their massage table.

Your evidence against Lemond is what? That's what I thought.

 

[Marcuccio]

In future, current and former pros should stick with "it's sad for cycling when things like this happen" and then just walk away.

Anything else is going to create derision and angst among the fans, as they tend to read from it what they will.

FWIW, I think AC is saying that the evidence is the same as it's been since 2005, which while he's not saying LA is guilty, he's certainly being very ambiguous. Him of all people should shut the f up ..

I always thought that the two of them hated each other, so maybe it's the mutual respect of each other as dopers which is the reason he's saying what he's saying..

 

[AcademyCC]

Ha ha. Contadickhead.

This is a fun game. It's called spot the doper. There's one....... Oh look theres another one.

If they had any wit they'd keep their mouths shut, seem to be pretty good at that usually.

You couldn't write this stuff, epic lies and corruption.

 

[skidmark]

No, I am pointing out your etal hypocrisy as I always have, and how you etal don't give a **** about PED use in cycling. If it wasn't for LA this forum would have 10% the posts over the last years, if that. My post is not about LA, it is about the assclowns in the clinic.

AC today is the same AC that LA was mean to in 2009. Now he is the enemy for doing what he has always done, IOW enforce omerta. FL would still be slammed if LA would have given him a job in 2010. Look in the mirror MM. You are the problem.

I agree that a) Landis would be slammed if he was given a job between 2006-2010, and that b) sooooo many goddamn posts on here are about Armstrong. I'm hoping that time will pass, and soon, but for now it's fascinating to watch it all unravel. The fact is, Landis did what he did, he pulled the cork because he realized, however belatedly, that cycling omerta is bull****. And props to him for it - are you trying to argue that the truth coming out the way it did was bad? I mean, I actually agree with Contador's base statement of 'why didn't they speak out earlier'? I wish they had. But I also understand why they didn't. And I understand why Floyd gets props, because he actually pulled the thread that unravelled the whole mess, when he wasn't under threat of perjury. And I understand that it's not incongruent to think of Contador as being pressured by the supreme black hole of ******* that is Lance Armstrong, and also think that Contador's a protector of omerta.

I know that you like to paint everyone else in broad brushstrokes, and yourself as some radical truth speaker against a herd of mindless sheep, so I understand that it must be disappointing that it's celebration time for all the people you've tweaked for the last 3 years about getting a grip on reality and acknowledging that Lance has all the power, etc etc. But now I think it's your time to effing deal with reality and eat some crow for a bit. Don't worry about it, there will still be plenty of scandals and idiots to pick on in the future.

 

[Froome19]

The fact is that once Landis had lost all his intergrity there was nothing stopping him coming out with everything.

Especially as he probably considered it unjust that he was found and no one else was.

 

[gatete]

So what is worst?

I've been thinking what the right answer coming from Contador would be?

Trowing Armstrong under the bus? A doper talking bad about another doper that seems hypocritical.

Not saying anything? Sure he's a doper and swimming in Omerta waters.

Saying what he said? losing posters that up to this point defended him.

I have to admit that although I'm a big AC fan I felt a little anger about his comments, but then it hit me: I know AC is a doper, and yet I root for him, why is it because he's a winner? well Cavendish is also a big winner and I despise him. The main reason why I simpatyze with him is because he is not brash, loud and has always been proper with his words, I guess those are the elements that I like about that rider, and of course how he animates the races where he competes. I remember feeling sorry for Saddam Hussein when they showed the first pictures after he was pulled of the hole he was in. Is it fair for me to feel that way even though he was **** to his people and killed God knows how many? well all I know is that I felt sorry for him. I despised Armstrong (Read my posts and you'll see I'm not B S ing) and now that he's down I guess I'm not feeling the way I thought I was going to feel which is happiness because the big doper jerk got dump by everyone. I guess they way I'm processing AC words is that he has always been humble like when it comes to words. I'm I a AC fan boy? yes I am, am I the new Polish like poster? will I get banned due to the way I feel about this? I don't know, but all I know is that no one but my self will make decisions and absolutely will not allow anybody to alter my oppinion just because they got a stronger grasp of things.

 

[airstream]

The man considers himself to be the only right in atrocities he commits. What mercy can we talk about? Contador is an absolutely foul person.

Florecita, we can reach agreement. How about tortures until frank recognition occurs, uh? Agree?

 

[Bobito]

Contador is known for making neutral comments, most of the time, he never gets into trouble for what he says, until today/yesterday. IMO he has been paid or had a pact to say that. He didn't need to say anything. However, I can't think of anybody who can ask him to that. Who could that be?

I think there's the rub. First, the press wants him to say something. Second, he's worried a vengeful Armstrong has dirt on him (surely he does). Third, he's worried Bruyneel has dirt on him. Fourth, he's worried that the mentioned dirt, coming from around 2009, would be subject to the modernized Spanish anti-doping law (recent, I don't remember the year) that did not exist at the time of say, Operacion Puerto, and that he might even face prison. Fifth, he's worried about the continued viability of the Contador brand which miraculously survived (in Spain) a 2 year ban for doping. Sixth, denial worked for Indurain, Delgado, Valverde, and other major Spanish riders.

Contador is too smart to say stupid things, but he speaks bluntly. Since he clearly has never liked Armstrong personally, it seems the most reasonable interpretation is that he's trying to say what all the other big riders are saying (the other 7 time champs like Merckx and Indurain) and just isn't very good at speaking politically, and that he's worried about his own exposure.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

To who used to be Contador fans ..

Sometimes we're so far off the beaten track
We'll get taken for a ride
By a parlor trick or some words of wit
A hidden hand up a sleeve
To think that the one you love
Could hurt you now
Is a little hard to believe
But everybody darlin' sometimes
Bites the hand that feeds.

Guns N Roses.

 

[Bobito]

I much prefer the comments of Contador, Indurain, Valverde to those of Wiggins, Merckx, Millar. At least the former crew aren't lying directly to your face. Think about it, YOU knew what was going on the whole time, but THEY (Wiggins and co.) didn't? They were totally in the dark regarding Lance's doping until the phucking USADA "reasoned decision"? Really?

At least Contador is staying consistent, showing some backbone. Up until yesterday Wiggins was driving the Lance bandwagon, with Mcquaid riding shotgun. Either these "shocked and appalled" former riders are the dumbest, most naive people on the face of the earth, or they are self serving liars.

Wiggins' "father christmas" reference was particularly idiotic.

I get what you are saying. My own cultural tendencies are to prefer the unrepentant diver to the shin-kicking self-righteous anti-diver - that is to prefer Busquets to Terry (i.e. Contador to Wiggins) - but I think in the end it is mainly about cultural ways of dealing with cheating.

Cheating occurs in every culture. In Spain cheaters aren't ashamed of cheating and just deny that they do it. In England cheating is seen as shameful, so cheaters speak out against it. To the English the Spanish seem unrepentant and shameful cheaters. To the Spanish the English seem self-righteous hypocritical cheaters. Of course these are absurd over generalizations.

Maybe in a way the Spanish, who generally dislike Armstrong personally, for his arrogant manner, have more sympathy for his way of cheating than they have for the way of cheating of someone like Wiggins.

 

[Je ne sais quoi]

Moose, I generally agree with your point that the riders that come out in support of Armstrong are being jerks and are exacerbating the problem. I wish Contador (and others) had just kept his mouth shut. However I view Contador as a special case.

I don't like his remarks, but I will accept them for these reasons:

- He thinks he got screwed by the anti-doping forces. He tested positive for a nano-particle of a substance that can be found in ordinary food, for which there is no threshold, except for the artificial threshold that is created by the fact that no lab in the world can detect such a microscopic trace of it, other than the one lab to which they happened to send his (and only his) sample. And CAS essentially agreed that he got screwed, but felt bound to uphold the letter of the rule, poorly structured as it is. [Please accept the poetic license of this summary, from the perspective of looking back over two years of judicial hell, and don't nit pick the interpretation! ]

- So, knowing that it's quite possible to get "screwed", he now views the Armstrong landscape. If he had said this, would you be content? :

"Based on my recent experience, I am still feeling somewhat hurt, wary and distrustful of what is represented as anti-doping justice, and for the time being, I can't help but wonder if there was an element of that in the Armstrong prosecution, even though I don't know all the details. I look at Armstrong and I see someone who is being disrespected for his accomplishments and his contributions to the sport. I may come to feel differently over time, but I hope I can maintain a certain generosity of spirit toward Armstrong, having crossed swords with him as a cyclist, competitor, and even as a team mate. This is a difficult time for the sport and I wish the best for cycling and cyclists everywhere."

Because, to me, that is pretty much what he is saying.

Contador's default character appears to be quite respectful and generous with respect to his opponents (consistent with every interview I've ever seen of him), and so it shouldn't surprise me to see it in this case, even though it ****es me off.

 

[No_Balls]

Altitude View Post
I much prefer the comments of Contador, Indurain, Valverde to those of Wiggins, Merckx, Millar. At least the former crew aren't lying directly to your face. Think about it, YOU knew what was going on the whole time, but THEY (Wiggins and co.) didn't? They were totally in the dark regarding Lance's doping until the phucking USADA "reasoned decision"? Really?

At least Contador is staying consistent, showing some backbone. Up until yesterday Wiggins was driving the Lance bandwagon, with Mcquaid riding shotgun. Either these "shocked and appalled" former riders are the dumbest, most naive people on the face of the earth, or they are self serving liars.

Wiggins' "father christmas" reference was particularly idiotic.

"Father christmas" I bet the jingoistic dudes around here felt "You go Wiggo! In your face Lance". The by british media "universally aknowledged clean" Wiggo has upon until now (even in a time when USADA hinted about evidence against Armstrong) been his main supporter.

But finally a voice of reason. Someone should do a reality check before they throws the spanish under the bus as the only ones with problem. There are more ways to uphold Omertá then speaking openly about it.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

FWIW, I think AC is saying that the evidence is the same as it's been since 2005, which while he's not saying LA is guilty, he's certainly being very ambiguous. Him of all people should shut the f up ..

.

Yes that seems to be what he is saying and most others are inferring. Which of course is total rubbish, I find it hard to understand why they all keep on going on about no evidence or failed tests. Now we have most of his team testifying under oath rather than rumour and speculation. Its like saying if 15 people see someone shoot another person its not murder unless they have the gun, a photo and a confession. Wheras of course you would be convicted in any court based on witnesses.

And as for all the fanboys on here bleating Contadors defence, you only make it worse trying to make baseless defenses based on the fact that he can climb hills fast, or isnt wiggo or has a nice smile. Get over it he is a convicted doper, Armstrong is a proven doper and actually pretty much all the top spanish riders are proven dopers or highly implicated, thats not a rumour that also seems quite clear.

This forum all too quickly descends into national stereotypes and bias, but in this case I am sure the Spanish riders are doing a very poor job and portraying their profession awfully.

 

[No_Balls]

Unless it's an attack on Britain. Then it's ok. Apparently.

It was an "attack" (or legal criticism if you prefer) and raised eyebrows, against Team Skys, USPS-stylish, recent success stretching over the Olympic who had Phat McQuaids signature over it.

What? You couldnt handle it? Let me guess: You prefer throwing dirt but cant stand it when your own boys are under scrutiny.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

He's clearly trolling

Johan Bruyneel @JohanBruyneel 3 u
@dnlbenson - i feel absolutely zero need for that, Daniel.

You are correct. My mistake.

The fact is that once Landis had lost all his intergrity there was nothing stopping him coming out with everything.

Especially as he probably considered it unjust that he was found and no one else was.

Either you don't understand the word integrity or you're an omertaist with a ****ed up moral compasss.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Maybe, you might put away the Brian Wilson records and find that life is slighly more complex than that.

Great post aphronesis! "put away the Brian Wilson records"

 

[Der Effe]

Spanish sports culture, rotten to the core. Everyone thought it already, their riders now confirm it. Disgusting.

 

[Velo1ticker]

Unless it's an attack on Britain. Then it's ok. Apparently.

Or all norwegian skiiers. Aldopo and Big Dope can thank spanish doctors, spanish riders and spanish teams for the unwanted attention. Everyone knows where the pollution is comming from but aperently only northern europeans are to be puniched. The only real question I have for Aldopo is how he felt when he shared a needle with Lance. (I think it is more like: Now I've got the best dope and I've got the same team and therefore I've got a fair chance to to beat Lance.)