Contador and Spanish cycling

[uphillstruggle]

Well if they dont want to be lumped with Valverde, Contador and Sanchez now is the time to speak up!

Contador is doing the right thing. people who dope shouldn't pour scorn on those who are caught.

 

[cineteq]

As I said it was a mistake. A MISTAKE. Don't tell me you never make one.

Big kudos to you for defending Contador, and throwing yourself to the wolves. I think most posters respect that, just by the fact they are responding directly to you. Unfortunately your hero doesn't have a case here.

 

[airstream]

Blindness, blindness and blindess. All you (supporters) try to do is to justify your interest to cycling which is mainly Contador himself, so you will stick to any reason, to any hint to find any logical line even it's impossible to find that. So the story has no end...

Huh, ignore aistream! What a hellish conceit one should have to say this. NoBalls, love cycling, but not yourself and Contador. On the forum, at least.

 

[Fidolix]

Blindness, blindness and blindess. All you (supporters) try to do is to justify your interest to cycling which is mainly Contador himself, so you will stick to any reason, to any hint to find any logical line even it's impossible to find that. So the story has no end...

Huh, ignore aistream! What a hellish conceit one should have to say this. NoBalls, love cycling, but not yourself and Contador. On the forum, at least.

 

[airstream]

Yes, facepalm is the only way to try to save face for the lack of proper arguments.

 

[Fidolix]

When Contador gets popped in the TdF, he will say 'you can't show any photo- or video proof, so you can't know anything for sure'. i'm innosente, i tink!

Yeah, that's a BS,in contrast to what color contador's puppies ears have

You know air, it´s so obvious your opinion against Contador has nothing to do with facts, you speak of a mans personality though I bet you never met the guy, less spoke with him. I think it´s time to use my ignore option, you are simply to f... stupid to listen to.

Maybe you spend to much time in the clinic, try get out more, get some air...stream.

 

[Fidolix]

Yes, facepalm is the only way to try to save face for the lack of proper arguments.

To be honest, your a joke, what you post here do not deserve to be answered.

Welcome to iggy land.

 

[Love the Scenery]

I have no idea what you want me to say.

I don't necessarily support Alberto, I feel neutral, but this is being blown way out of proportions. Therefore I stand up for him. It's not fair to put words into someone's mouth.

I tried.

There is nothing to defend, because his words are indefensible. He is the only one who put words in his own mouth.

Talking about how his "words have been twisted" or "blown out of proportion" makes no difference because this is about more than what he said, it's about how what he says is connected to what other people are saying--and especially Valverde, Indurain, and Sanchez. His rhetoric and his position are identical, even if his specific words are milder and more ambiguous. Regardless, putting himself together with those three is indefensible--there is nothing to stand up for except for omertà, doping, and fraud.

He is wrong to take that position, and you are wrong to think that "standing up for him" or "explaining" is somehow supportive of Contador.

Let me put it to you this way: because of these words, Contador has lost whatever last bits of broken reputation he had left. He has just gone down into omertà dope hell. If you justify, defend, or explain these words, you are just pushing him deeper into that hole, not keeping him from falling.

What a true friend would do is say, Alberto you are wrong. You need to change that position. THAT would be supporting Contador. Likewise, you would be better off accepting that Contador is totally wrong. You are not doing him any favors with all this twisted reasoning about how poor Alberto has been misunderstood.

 

[Love the Scenery]

this is very easy to say in retrospect. And given the amount of names and teams involved in this affair i am confident he wasnt reflecting if what he did was anything wrong. Probably he wasnt even aware what was going on behind the scene and who was pulling the strings. That is typical mafia.

Probably. But it's still coming his way like a great big freight train. And he just jumped in the wrong direction--straight into it. I know he's kind of dumb, but he should think really hard about what direction he jumps. History has winners and losers, and he only needs to look at Armstrong to know what side is losing.

 

[airstream]

One dwells on reality and other prefers to hide from it. I wonder what facts one may call for while UCI asked riders to sign anti-doping charter to pay one year salary in case a rider gets caught, clearly knowing that 99.9% of the peloton doped?

One can see very good human features in overwhelming support to any rider: kindness, humility, loyalty and so on. But it doesn't relate to support towards the rider who vastly dopes and is so proud of it. Such blind cheering unbares only one's qualities of the rider — unhealthy ego, double-dealing and willingness to walk over the people by any means.

To me, it's easier to be honest with myself at least, so new clean peloton wouldn't become a drama. That's it.

 

[Angliru]

Blindness, blindness and blindess. All you (supporters) try to do is to justify your interest to cycling which is mainly Contador himself, so you will stick to any reason, to any hint to find any logical line even it's impossible to find that. So the story has no end...

Huh, ignore aistream! What a hellish conceit one should have to say this. NoBalls, love cycling, but not yourself and Contador. On the forum, at least.

You personally need to get over your hatred for Contador and those that seemingly enjoy watching him race. Pingeon-holing individuals by virtue of their opinions simply to justify your mad lust for a particular rider's downfall only reflects badly on you. Your comment that you "hope he burns in hell" is a fine example of how sick and disturbed your perspective is. I can almost imagine you foaming at the mouth at your computer as you post some of this hateful drivel. You're quite rational except when it comes to Contador, that's when something seems to snap in your mind and you just seem to lose it completely.

On another note I see that we've both changed our avatars. Mine from Samu to Flecha and yours from Andy to Sastre.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Still trying to say peeps are paid to post here,,,gigs up brah.

Funny the only thing you think about is how these people who have a different opinion than yours is somehow paid minions or some other name you make up.

You are just ****ed that somehow after all of this people are not falling into lock step opinions with yours.

I never have never been a fan of Contador. These comments did not get me all broke up or ****ed either. I just read them to be what appears to me is that Lance and the others must have some type of info on him. He does not want to rattle the cage of someone who has just been exposed for cheating and fraud.I def. would not say " a big F U to Contador and Spanish Cycling". Oh well. ,,,,,,,,,

 

[No_Balls]

Maybe McQuaid calling the Spanish a nation of dopers has a lot to answer for? I dont agree with anyhting McQuaid ever said or did in his whole little pathetic life.

That reputation was already cemented by foreign media (whom up until then considered the biggest fraud ever as an overbroad hero) so of course McQuaid would say something like that. It served his purpose up until then. To build heroes you need villains and while you can single them out nobody will watch and care about your own whereabouts.

Blindness, blindness and blindess. All you (supporters) try to do is to justify your interest to cycling which is mainly Contador himself, so you will stick to any reason, to any hint to find any logical line even it's impossible to find that. So the story has no end...

Huh, ignore aistream! What a hellish conceit one should have to say this. NoBalls, love cycling, but not yourself and Contador. On the forum, at least.

I read that.

While this is particulary funny coming from a "Shleck-fan" who writes 99 out of 100 topics about Contador and even have a avatar dedicated the guy. Is that why you didnt respond to AS failure of speaking out against Lance? Because you simply couldnt talk about Contador a little more?

And that is the whole point: You are not the slightest intrested in the widespread doping, cleaning up the sport as a whole (how could you given that your own guy with brother is wrapped up in syringes?). You only saw an opportunity to bash Contador and took it.

 

[Benotti69]

I cried that my hero was taken down by his own bullying but I still manlove him regurlarly

Your boring old trolling is out of date, brah

You backed the wrong donkey.

 

[No_Balls]

Probably. But it's still coming his way like a great big freight train. And he just jumped in the wrong direction--straight into it. I know he's kind of dumb, but he should think really hard about what direction he jumps. History has winners and losers, and he only needs to look at Armstrong to know what side is losing.

There is a lot coming AC´s way so i understand (note: understand, not defending) why he want to keep Bruyneel/Armstrong at bay. I even think some of his words has been carefully orchestrated by another part since an ill-advised AC is a loose canon and can say whatever crap he feels like. He is a lot like Fernando Alonso used to be before he´d been proper managed.

I am disappointed with some of his comments. But not as disappointed as i am with Indurain. It is him, as spiritual godfather for spanish cycling, who set the tone for the other riders.

 

[richwagmn]

I figure there are approximately 200+ Spanish professionals and we have heard from less than 5% of them. Be fair.

Sure. But why haven't we heard from the others?

Also, it's strange how Valverde, Indurain and Contador all give the same defense of Armstrong.

- The accusers should have come forward earlier (and been crucified like Simoeni).
- There's no positive test (Forget those 99 TDF EPO positives then eh?)
- He's not being respected (he deserves zero respect given how he's tried to crush anyone who's opposed him)
- He's done so much for cycling in the US (cycling's not even a blip on the US sport scene. outside of the TDF, 99% of the population aren't aware there are even any other races).

No where is there any condemnation. As a matter fact, the only real ball kicking condemnation I heard came from Cancellara.

I think it's just business as usual. The silence from the pros and ESPECIALLY from the big names in cycling says it all. They honestly don't give a sh*t if anyone dopes in cycling. And if we dope, it's our business not yours.

And that's exactly what Valverde, Contador and Indurain are saying.

 

[LaFlorecita]

What a true friend would do is say, Alberto you are wrong. You need to change that position. THAT would be supporting Contador. Likewise, you would be better off accepting that Contador is totally wrong. You are not doing him any favors with all this twisted reasoning about how poor Alberto has been misunderstood.

I am in no position to tell him what to do.

I am not his "friend". I am just a fan. I don't know what is going through his mind. I trust Alberto to do and say the right thing. I have explained in a PM to another person why I believe Alberto said this and I don't feel like posting it out in the open because people will probably make fun of me or say I am blind or stupid. If you want that PM just tell me.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Your the boring troll who has fascinations about donkey's.

No problem just try not to troll the forum with it benaughty69

 

[Descender]

Question: is it fair that Armstrong has lost its seven Tour de France titles?

Here's what Spaniards have to say about it.

http://www.cope.es/encuestas?encuesta=329

 

[Love the Scenery]

I am in no position to tell him what to do.

I am not his "friend". I am just a fan. I don't know what is going through his mind. I trust Alberto to do and say the right thing. I have explained in a PM to another person why I believe Alberto said this and I don't feel like posting it out in the open because people will probably make fun of me or say I am blind or stupid. If you want that PM just tell me.

That's OK Florecita. I'm not judging you, just communicating a different point of view. Sorry if I'm a little long-winded. Basically I mean that in this case, what applies to the friend applies to the fan.

--Contador's words have caused him serious damage: he has dug himself a hole.
--Justifying, explaining, and rationalizing the words just digs the hole deeper.
--Justifying, explaining, and rationalizing the words does not support Contador, it just pushes him further down.
--His fans can continue to support him as a person and a rider but supporting these words is not helpful to him, neither as a person nor as a rider.
--Even his fans should admit that these words were a BIG mistake. BIG. No explanations are going to change that.

LtS

 

[Love the Scenery]

Question: is it fair that Armstrong has lost its seven Tour de France titles?

Here's what Spaniards have to say about it.

http://www.cope.es/encuestas?encuesta=329

1. COPE is a Catholic right-wing radio station, considered extremist by many in Spanish society.
2. It is well known that the "bread and circuses" movement to distract the Spanish people with cheap sports victories is principally linked to the right wing, though PSOE have been active participants also.
3. The bread and circuses movement attempts to suppress evidence of doping by calling on cheap nationalist sentiment. This is widely perceived in Spanish society today.
4. The COPE poll is not a scientific poll, it's just whoever chooses to answer the question on the web site. It has no statistical validity whatsoever.
4. If anything, a COPE poll overemphasizes the right wing and ignorant sports fans, and it is extremely surprising that 50% of those respondents have a critical attitude towards Armstrong. Even in a sample that overemphasizes nationalist sports fandom and crass ignorance, 50% are opposed. That shows that "Spaniards" are far from the ignorant idiots they are being stereotyped as.
5. To say that response to a COPE poll represents "What Spaniards say" is astonishingly ignorant. It shows a lack of understand of polling, sampling, statistics, or Spanish media and society. A COPE poll is not a representation of "What Spaniards say."
6. A huge proportion of Spaniards reject COPE and everything it stands for. Spain has a huge resistance movement that is not captured by any polls, scientific or not, because they do not participate in any polling.
7. Using selective data to mischaracterize "Spaniards" is called ethnic and national stereotyping.

I condemn Valverde, Sanchez, Indurain, and Contador's words but I equally condemn any stereotyping of the Spanish people or "Spaniards". To imagine even for a second that "Spaniards" support doping and organized crime is not only ignorant but offensive.

 

[cineteq]

I condemn Valverde, Sanchez, Indurain, and Contador's words but I equally condemn any stereotyping of the Spanish people or "Spaniards". To imagine even for a second that "Spaniards" support doping and organized crime is not only ignorant but offensive.

I subscribe 100% to this, well put.

 

[LaFlorecita]

That's OK Florecita. I'm not judging you, just communicating a different point of view. Sorry if I'm a little long-winded. Basically I mean that in this case, what applies to the friend applies to the fan.

--Contador's words have caused him serious damage: he has dug himself a hole.
--Justifying, explaining, and rationalizing the words just digs the hole deeper.
--Justifying, explaining, and rationalizing the words does not support Contador, it just pushes him further down.
--His fans can continue to support him as a person and a rider but supporting these words is not helpful to him, neither as a person nor as a rider.
--Even his fans should admit that these words were a BIG mistake. BIG. No explanations are going to change that.

LtS

I disagree but that's probably because I don't think Alberto's words had as deep a meaning as many of you think they had.

 

[Descender]

1. COPE is a Catholic right-wing radio station, considered extremist by many in Spanish society.
2. It is well known that the "bread and circuses" movement to distract the Spanish people with cheap sports victories is principally linked to the right wing, though PSOE have been active participants also.
3. The bread and circuses movement attempts to suppress evidence of doping by calling on cheap nationalist sentiment. This is widely perceived in Spanish society today.
4. The COPE poll is not a scientific poll, it's just whoever chooses to answer the question on the web site. It has no statistical validity whatsoever.
4. If anything, a COPE poll overemphasizes the right wing and ignorant sports fans, and it is extremely surprising that 50% of those respondents have a critical attitude towards Armstrong. Even in a sample that overemphasizes nationalist sports fandom and crass ignorance, 50% are opposed. That shows that "Spaniards" are far from the ignorant idiots they are being stereotyped as.
5. To say that response to a COPE poll represents "What Spaniards say" is astonishingly ignorant. It shows a lack of understand of polling, sampling, statistics, or Spanish media and society. A COPE poll is not a representation of "What Spaniards say."
6. A huge proportion of Spaniards reject COPE and everything it stands for. Spain has a huge resistance movement that is not captured by any polls, scientific or not, because they do not participate in any polling.
7. Using selective data to mischaracterize "Spaniards" is called ethnic and national stereotyping.

I condemn Valverde, Sanchez, Indurain, and Contador's words but I equally condemn any stereotyping of the Spanish people or "Spaniards". To imagine even for a second that "Spaniards" support doping and organized crime is not only ignorant but offensive.

If you choose to feel offended by obvious truths, I can't do anything about it. I've had plenty of chances to feel offended by your continuous and baseless slanders towards my person.

Your position is barbed, illogical and very odd. You keep trying to justify Spain's appalling track record when it comes to all things doping by saying that while Spanish politicians, Spanish sports federations, the Spanish anti-doping agency, Spanish judges and attorneys, Spanish sportsmen, Spanish media, Spanish internet users (as if it was only right-wingers who listen to COPE's sport programms...) are at fault, somehow, Spanish population in general is no less lenient towards doping than populations from countries like France and Germany are.

That is such an illogical claim to make.

If Spain is what it is now in terms of doping, if it has such terrible politicians, such shady sporting federations, such a laughable anti-doping agency, such dodgy judges, so many questionable doctors involved in so many grand-scale doping networks, if it hosts so many riders who will just not condemn doping as opposed to riders from pretty much any other nation, if it has such ridiculous media, it is because Spain has a culture that tolerates doping more than others.

How can it be otherwise? Politicians, ministers, members of federations, judges, attorneys, members of the anti-doping agency, doctors, riders, journalists... they are all Spaniards, they are part of that culture, they were all born and raised within that culture and interact with it.

 

[Northern rider]

^^^^ guessing you don't do tapas and rioja then