Contador Isolates Self

[Publicus]

Lance is a good team mate. You don't sit on Wiggo's wheel and cost yourself >1 minute just for fun. Particularly when it is very clear he has more than that. How much more is the question.

Contador is showing very little grace. He seems to care as much about his positioning in the team as the race. He surely could offer some thanks for the work the other (including Lance today) are doing.

Contador is super talented, but not super smart. His move today was a poor risk/reward. He'd be descending solo for about 15k. I'm not convinced that whatever time he put into the Schlecks would've stuck. In as much, it wasn't a great move.

Lance should keep some of the comments to himself. No need to make a team mate look bad even if you did the right thing on the road.

Bruneel clearly prefers Lance to Alberto, but cannot devise a scheme where Lance takes the jersey at this point. The script was written on Verbier.

What I'd certainly like to see is Lance take back 1:30 tomorrow while the Schlecks lose another 1:00 to Contador. That sets up for a mano a mano showdown up the slopes of Ventoux between Contador and Lance (with Lance already behind 2:30 at the start). Given a situation that looks something like...

Contador 000
Lance 2:00
A Schleck 3:30
F Schleck 4:30

Would Bruneel dare to allow the showdown happen? And would a fist fight break out at the summit?

Yeah that last part is a pipe dream so don't bother ripping me. I know.

Lance can't drop the Schleck brothers. As for a showdown, Lance is no match for Contador. He knows that. JB knows that. Contador knows that. Anyone with Versus knows that.

 

[schnebit]

Lance is a good team mate. You don't sit on Wiggo's wheel and cost yourself >1 minute just for fun. Particularly when it is very clear he has more than that. How much more is the question.

Contador is showing very little grace. He seems to care as much about his positioning in the team as the race. He surely could offer some thanks for the work the other (including Lance today) are doing.

Contador is super talented, but not super smart. His move today was a poor risk/reward. He'd be descending solo for about 15k. I'm not convinced that whatever time he put into the Schlecks would've stuck. In as much, it wasn't a great move.

Lance should keep some of the comments to himself. No need to make a team mate look bad even if you did the right thing on the road.

Bruneel clearly prefers Lance to Alberto, but cannot devise a scheme where Lance takes the jersey at this point. The script was written on Verbier.

What I'd certainly like to see is Lance take back 1:30 tomorrow while the Schlecks lose another 1:00 to Contador. That sets up for a mano a mano showdown up the slopes of Ventoux between Contador and Lance (with Lance already behind 2:30 at the start). Given a situation that looks something like...

Contador 000
Lance 2:00
A Schleck 3:30
F Schleck 4:30

Would Bruneel dare to allow the showdown happen? And would a fist fight break out at the summit?

Yeah that last part is a pipe dream so don't bother ripping me. I know.

Agreed.

Would Bruneel dare to allow the showdown happen? And would a fist fight break out at the summit?

Could conceivably happen... would be great to see. After all, AC is far from dominating this TdF.

 

[Futuroscope]

Alberto may be the strongest rider, but it's clear he still has a lot to learn.

To watch him go off the front while two-on-two with the Schlecks, taking time from Wiggo who was with the ever-faithful Lance, and drop Kloden, Johan must have had a heart attack!

He expended energy needlessly ahead of the ITT, sped up Andy and Frank, who put time into Lance and Kloden and took 2nd and 3rd respectively (better positions for the ITT too).

Alberto, que fuiste pensando? Necesitas aprender muchas ser un lider del equipo!

yes, that was a mistake. the shlecks did a good job today, contador shouldnt have attacked and just conserved his energy for tomorrow. i understand that he wants to distance andy schleck even more but he will be able to do that on tomorrows TT and then 'all' he has to do is to sit on andy's wheel on mount ventoux.

 

[Amsterhammer]

You are correct in that Lance didn't follow the attack because he couldn't. But you are wrong in saying that he wasn't riding for the team afterwards. He DID attack Wiggins after a while and Wiggins was able to respond so LA shut it down and VdV and Nibaldi were able to bridge back up. It was only later that LA was able to get away without Wiggins.

You don't have to like all the riders (LA, AC, AK, whoever), but at least TRY to watch what is actually happening and don't view it through fanboy or hater eyes. Is that so much to ask?

Kevin

Agree with your reading, that's what I saw too.

It seems that people always need someone to bash, a 'fall guy' if you like. Usually, it's Lance around here. Today AC gets dumped on for making what he admitted was a mistake..

I also think that Lance should STFU on Twitter.

 

[schnebit]

Whoa. You better watch what you say!

You may be pegged as a lance-fanboy who only follows cycling in July!

LOL... good point!

Actually, I only follow cycling THIS July and that's only because Lance is back!!

 

[fulcrum]

I will put my racing experience and skill up against you and likely 99% of the people on this board.

The money matters. They are PROFESSIONAL cyclists and those support people don't make squat. If you don't think that the support people aren't already counting the money they expect to make from the tour you are delusional.

Traditionally the team splits all money and the winner of the tour does not take a split as they are about to make buckets of money elsewhere.

Ask Bob Roll if he still holds a grudge against Andy Hampsten for not splitting his Giro winnings? Hell, I still hold a grudge against a former team mate who kept all of the money he won at a stage race in 1988 when I was a poor college student and could really have used my $400 split.

I will finish with these questions:

1. What did Contador gain from his attack?
2. What did he lose from his attack?
3. What COULD he have gained from his attack and how would it have mattered?

Thanks,

Kevin

1- He put more time between him and the second guy in the GC. He distanced Kloden, Wiggings and Lance. Incidentally, the best time trialist in the top 10. Kloden probably by up to 2 minutes, Lance and Wiggings by a few seconds. Every time a TEAM LEADER puts time between him and the rest is a good day in cycling. His interest prevails over domestiques. That's the way the tour has been raced over the last century. Prior to your Sarbane-Oxley accounting audit.

Pretending that somehow a team leader fighting for the Tour de France is going to keep the $15,000 domestiques might or might not get in mind to figure out his race strategy is just preposterous.

2- He lost a bonked domestique = nothing.

3- He could have won a stage, by himself, if the Schlecks were at the limit and couldn't have followed him in the last 2 km. He could have put in another 20 seconds to them in the process. Btw, how do you quantify a stage win in the Tour de France? is it worth 10,000 euros to the sponsor?

 

[hwttdz]

Based on what happened today, if I were up the road in a small group I'd rather have Lance on my team than Contador.

First, because I think it was pretty clear that he wasn't going to help drag anyone back up to the front group. He attacked Wiggins a few times and immediately killed the effort if he saw a response (even if Wiggins wasn't on his wheel).

Second, Lance will make an effort to get back up to the front group if he can without bringing anyone dangerous. We saw it happen yesterday (or was it day before) and he made an effort today. Being in a 5 or 6 man break with 4 or 5 guys from a single team other than your own can be an awful situation. And there's no feeling like when your teammate reconnects and asks if he should sprint for 300 to go or 200 to go.

Third, I wouldn't expect him to attack needlessly. I.e. either let's roll in together and win the sprint or if you attack now, you better not look over your shoulder, you better go like you stole something and make sure you get the win (I'm not sure that makes as much sense in a 3 week race). Granted Kloden was blown anyways, so it would have happened in another 30 seconds anyways.

That being said I might rather have Contador on my team, because there's no feeling like sitting on and saying "teammate up the road I'm not chasing".

 

[Publicus]

I don't think that Alberto is a phenom... far from it. A phenom would have dropped the Shlecks like a bad habit on the Colombiere.

And... I think that Lance is proving that he's not an 'ex' chapmion.

I think that the 7-time winner deserves some respect.

LOL. And I bet you are serious too. Lance has gotten all the respect he deserves. He's not the best man on his team. Frankly I don't think he's was 3rd best on his team until Levi crashed out.

 

[UWSWalter]

Lance can't drop the Schleck brothers. As for a showdown, Lance is no match for Contador. He knows that. JB knows that. Contador knows that. Anyone with Versus knows that.

I'm pretty sure of it too. But damn it could be entertaining.

Like I said, its a pipe dream.

 

[schnebit]

I'm pretty sure of it too. But damn it could be entertaining.

Like I said, its a pipe dream.

Definitely good entertainment, and it would settle this once and for all....

 

[Publicus]

Whoa. You better watch what you say!

You may be pegged as a lance-fanboy who only follows cycling in July!

Not my style. He's definitely a fan though. No other way to explain his ridiculous conclusion that Contador isn't a phenom. 3 Grand Tour Victories in his last 3 starts and all before the age of 26? With a 4th on the horizon?

Tell me again how many Grand Tours did Lance Armstrong win before 26? Or better yet, how many did he finish?

 

[poupou]

Too many people still waiting the lance miracle.alberto wanted this stage victory for andreas kloden and try to drop some of the schleck's bros,he was really upset when finally andreas crackdown,so he didnt help them at all,just staying in the wheel.did you see the same stage than me?

That is exactly what I showed!

 

[fulcrum]

you make it sound like he decided not to chase Schleck. That's bullsh*t.

It wasn't a tactical decision/mistake he made. He physically couldn't respond.

All the spinning afterward is just that. Ligget and Sherwin going on about how he was playing the loyal teammate, staying with Wiggins to mark him. What a load of garbage.

Dropping Wiggins and following Schleck would have been even more beneficial for the team. 3 Astana on 2 Saxo.

If Lance could have followed Frank, he would have. There was no mistake about it, just hard reality.

You might be right. Frank's attack did catch him with his pants down though, whether he could have followed or not we won't really know, but I do know he made a mistake on that one.

 

[Publicus]

Definitely good entertainment, and it would settle this once and for all....

Settle what?

 

[schnebit]

Not my style. He's definitely a fan though. No other way to explain his ridiculous conclusion that Contador isn't a phenom. 3 Grand Tour Victories in his last 3 starts and all before the age of 26? With a 4th on the horizon?

Tell me again how many Grand Tours did Lance Armstrong win before 26? Or better yet, how many did he finish?

I'm not taking the bait

Honestly, who cares... Is Alberto talented? No doubt... is he a phenom? Too soon to tell, honestly.

Eddy Merckx was a phenom... Alberto ain't no Eddy Mercks.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Settle what?

I think there are apparently some who think we're going to get some kind of 'Gunfight at the Ventoux Corral' between AC and LA.

 

[schnebit]

Settle what?

??? Living under a rock?

 

[schnebit]

I think there are apparently some who think we're going to get some kind of 'Gunfight at the Ventoux Corral' between AC and LA.

I guess you missed the part that said "pipe dream"...

 

[lean mean &green]

Lance should keep some of the comments to himself. No need to make a team mate look bad even if you did the right thing on the road.

very true. there are boundaries when it comes to discussing matters in public and in private.

internal conflict should NEVER be aired out thru the media. goes for all of sports.

nothing wrong with twitter, people need to learn how to correctly use the emerging technology, and quickly

 

[slcbiker]

You might be right. Frank's attack did catch him with his pants down though, whether he could have followed or not we won't really know, but I do know he made a mistake on that one.

I think the attack caught him by suprise, but I'd imagine that before the stage, Astana would have designated Wiggins as the bigger threat because of his TT ability. It looked like LA purposely shut down real quick once he realized that Wiggins wasn't also going, so that AC and Kloden could get a good gap.

 

[Publicus]

I'm not taking the bait

Honestly, who cares... Is Alberto talented? No doubt... is he a phenom? Too soon to tell, honestly.

Eddy Merckx was a phenom... Alberto ain't no Eddy Mercks.

Ok, fair enough. But the point I was making is still the same: if I'm a DS, I put my money on the 26 year old who's already banked 3 Grand Tours and is close to bank his 4th in 4 tries, not the 38 year old 4 years out of retirement, but who won 7 Tours.

It seems like a no-brainer to me. But JB clearly has loyalties to Lance and that's not going to change (and it is clear that Contador doesn't trust him as a result).

 

[Azdak6]

Agree with your reading, that's what I saw too.

It seems that people always need someone to bash, a 'fall guy' if you like. Usually, it's Lance around here. Today AC gets dumped on for making what he admitted was a mistake..

I also think that Lance should STFU on Twitter.

I'm not disagreeing with you re Armstrong/Twitter, but I also get the impression that the older riders on Astana find Contador very exasperating at times and they cannot hold that in completely. I also think that, although he gets annoyed, Armstrong sees something of his early self in Contador.

Makes me wonder what the comments about LA would have been like in 1992-96 if Twitter had been around then.

 

[schnebit]

very true. there are boundaries when it comes to discussing matters in public and in private.

internal conflict should NEVER be aired out thru the media. goes for all of sports.

nothing wrong with twitter, people need to learn how to correctly use the emerging technology, and quickly

Yeah... no doubt Lance should keep quite about stuff like that. Is he playing the role of 'team mate'? - Yes.

Is he coming across as bitter and immature? - Yes.

 

[Futuroscope]

I think there are apparently some who think we're going to get some kind of 'Gunfight at the Ventoux Corral' between AC and LA.

na wont happen. (a) he doesnt have the capacity (b) he wont try to attack contador.

its all about the schlecks vs contador.

armstrong is riding very well tho and will be in the group after andy and contador.

 

[Publicus]

??? Living under a rock?

Have you? If you were talking about Contador/Armstrong, that's been settled. Maybe 1999/2000 Lance would have given Contador 2009 a run for his money, but not 2009 Lance (nor 2010 Lance).

He's shown some fight, but he's not in any of the younger generation's league.