Contador positive!!!!!

[clydesdale]

That's total BS. What are you going to do, buy your own f-ing farm, and grow all of your own food? Hmm....where you plan on getting your fertilizer, or seed...

Do you have any idea of the trace amounts are under discussion here, and what the world's food supply looks like?

Yes, my mistake. I suppose I overstated how much I actually care. This isn't a fight I really want to take very far. If I'm wrong and this can happen, I'm wrong.

Honest question, though. How come this doesn't happen more often?

Edit: Did a bit of reading and food can be contaminated with Clenbuterol. Fine, I'm wrong. Sheesh. I'm the first person on the planet with an uninformed post?

I guess what surprises me is that if this can happen why would this information be released considering how small the dose is. Wouldn't it be prudent to keep this information private until such time a pattern arises, perhaps only informing the rider? It just seems to me that "Contador tests positive" is the obvious headline and noone will read beyond that and that is far from helpful.

 

[D-Queued]

...

Honest question, though. How come this doesn't happen more often?

Good question.

Is it just more proof that only those fit to be a real Tour Champion are on such rarified diets?

Dave.

 

[Animal]

Look, I don't trust a pro cyclist as far as I could throw a bus full of the skinny *******s.

But to boot a big name out, you want more than 40 picogrammes/millilitre. It's just not feasible that there could be any PE effect from that.

 

[saganftw]

interesting,i wonder what will UCI do...continue with food contamination story and keep alberto champion or ban him and have another fiasco after 2006,2007

 

[gjdavis60]

I think the professional wife beating tour could pull in more sponsorship money than pro bike racing at this point. Maybe paying people to ride bicycles violates some obscure cosmic law and we're watching the karmic fallout.

 

[redtreviso]

I got lost in this... Is there an allowable amount? or what they found is 100x less than their usual testing is required to catch?

 

[Nick777]

Have never thought Contador was clean, but clenbuterol, LOL?

Sure he's going to get nailed and the book thrown at him. It's a doping offense.

But in my book it's not EPO and not autologous blood transfusions.** I'm sure he does the latter too like other top pros. But there's not much of a performance boost from clenbuterol. This is marginal stuff. And the guy is notorious for breathing problems/allergies.

I just wonder what this does to Saxo now (even before next year starts)? Sponsors?

(**His insistence on taking his own doctor to Saxo seems very dodgy to me, for starters.)

I reckon a blood transfusion is involved. IMO, the drug was being used a couple of months before the tour, 'they' got the timing wrong & withdrew blood that still had minute traces in it, and it went back into him just in time to be tested at the tour.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

For those who are using Fuyu Li's positive as a comparison, please note comments below on his level of positive (which is higher than the 1/400th claimed for Conti). For those claiming he is banned for 2yrs should also note that at this stage he only faces a ban of up to 2yrs, his case is yet to be dealt with by the Chinese sports drug agency. I apologize in advance for bringing facts to the debate.

From the Daily Peleton:

The value that was found in Li’s sample, is extremely low. Ten to twenty times lower then a WADA/UCI laboratory must be able to detect, according to anti-doping expert Douwe de Boer:

“Laboratories must be able to find 1.00 ng/mL, while a normal threshold value is considered to be 2.00 ng/mL. The value of 0.05-0.10 ng/mL that was found in Fuyu Li’s body points clearly in the direction of a contamination. On top of that, such a low dose would not help his performance in any way.”

Douwe de Boer stated, “The extremely low value points in the direction of a contamination. Clenbuterol contaminations exist in food supplements and in meat. Clenbuterol is often used to improve the visible quality of meat. There have been several scandals in China, with Clenbuterol poisoning of people by eating heavily contaminated meat. My best guess would be that something like this caused Fuyu Li’s positive. I hope he will be treated fairly in his process in China.

Douwe de Boer is a Senior Investigator and Biochemist at the University Hospital Maastricht, the Netherlands and former director of WADA anti-doping laboratory Lisbon, Portugal.

Yes and no.

You're correct to a point on Li Fuyu, who is yet to be sanctioned.
But both he and Contador need to show how the contamination happened for there to be a reduction in the 2 year sanction.

Contador will be heard by the Spanish Federation - so he may get a reduced ban, and given todays comments by the UCI they would not object.

However, WADA can object to CAS if they are not happy with the outcome - this is going to drag out but in the meantime Contador will be suspended - basically this is another Landis case.

 

[Barrus]

I did not read the entire thread, as it seems to be growing fast than I can read, but I do have a question. In the case of such minute traces of the substance, is it still efective? One would think you need at least a more significant level for that sort of substance to really work. Also would it be possible that it was fromn doping earlier in the race, went undetected, but it's the rest residue that was caught on the 21st?

 

[Animal]

I got lost in this... Is there an allowable amount? or what they found is 100x less than their usual testing is required to catch?

400x less.

 

[D-Queued]

Yes and no.

...

Contador will be heard by the Spanish Federation - so he may get a reduced ban, and given todays comments by the UCI they would not object.

However, WADA can object to CAS if they are not happy with the outcome - this is going to drag out but in the meantime Contador will be suspended - basically this is another Landis case.

An educated guess would be that our old friend Judge Serrano is looking for something to do.

Once he rules, WADA won't be able to touch it ... Deja Vu all over again.

Dave.

 

[Polyarmour]

Now correct me if I'm wrong here but the allowable limit for Clenbuterol is ZERO.

That's why Contador is suspended. If 50 picograms was ok, there would be no suspension.

This business about being 400 times under normal lab testing regimes is a red herring.

 

[Polish]

Now correct me if I'm wrong here but the allowable limit for Clenbuterol is ZERO.

That's why Contador is suspended. If 50 picograms was ok, there would be no suspension.

This business about being 400 times under normal lab testing regimes is a red herring.

So are you saying Alberto got Clen by eating a red herring?

 

[Barrus]

I did not read the entire thread, as it seems to be growing fast than I can read, but I do have a question. In the case of such minute traces of the substance, is it still efective? One would think you need at least a more significant level for that sort of substance to really work. Also would it be possible that it was fromn doping earlier in the race, went undetected, but it's the rest residue that was caught on the 21st?

Sorry to quote my own text, but I just saw that Joe Papp reported on twitter concerning this exact question

nyvelocity In short, AC was tested days before and after pos test. Given half life of clen, dosage was too small to be perf enhancing.

Also found this on NYvelocity their twitter

The difference is AC was tested day before and had none. Fu's concentration might be what's left of a full dose days earlier.

If these two are true, I do see some credence in AC his story

(even though I believe he dopes, I do not think this instance is explained by it)

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Now correct me if I'm wrong here but the allowable limit for Clenbuterol is ZERO...

This is what I am wondering. If the limit is 0, and he was 400x under "normal testing", and it's possible to consume food contaminated with it, then why don't more people come up positive for it?

 

[Polyarmour]

So are you saying Alberto got Clen by eating a red herring?

Lol

I'm no expert but someone else raised the possibility of masking agents causing a low reading. If this is the case then you could understand a zero tolerance policy.

 

[BroDeal]

Now correct me if I'm wrong here but the allowable limit for Clenbuterol is ZERO.

That's why Contador is suspended. If 50 picograms was ok, there would be no suspension.

This business about being 400 times under normal lab testing regimes is a red herring.

Not it is not. Not if Contador really wants to go to the mattresses. He could argue, first in doping proceedings and finally in civil court, that a limit of zero is not a scientifically sound limit.

It is said that most hundred dollar U.S. bills are contaminated with cocaine because they have passed through the hands of drug dealers. Most other bills that have been in circulation long enough have also probably passed through the hands of drug users. If the testing equipment were sensitive enough, huge numbers of people would fail their employment drug test just from things they touch and people they interract with in the regular course of living life.

The situation is freakin' hilarious. The UCI is obviously looking to let Contador off they hook. At the same time they are fending off charges of corruption that allowed Armstrong to get away with doping. To make matters worse, the UCI has been selling everyone on the idea that cycling has cleaned itself up (even though they won't admit what was going on just a few years ago). Pat McQuaid must feel like he is in a year long sh!tstorm, and there are still three months to go. Highly entertaining.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

An educated guess would be that our old friend Judge Serrano is looking for something to do.

Once he rules, WADA won't be able to touch it ... Deja Vu all over again.

Dave.

Serrano will have nothing to do with this - it is up to the Spanish cycling Federation (RFEC) to hear this case.
And although the amounts are small he is still positive and has to come up with a plausible reason to explain a 'contamination'.

Both WADA and UCI can take a case to CAS if they feel the RFEC have not conducted a fair or impartial investigation.

 

[webvan]

Yes, McQuaid is probably the guy who's the most ****ed off at the situation, possibly more than AC, haha..

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Once again, we see cyclists complaining about the testing parameters only AFTER they get busted.

Why doesn't the cycling union point out the inherent flaws in the testing methods if the dangers of coming up positive from nutritional contamination are so apparent?

 

[theswordsman]

So are you saying Alberto got Clen by eating a red herring?

Finally you've said something that made sense!

I announced in the Forum months ago that my being a Contador fan was me giving pro cycling one last chance. I forget my exact wording, but the idea was that if he doped and it's proved, I'm done with the sport. I just woke up and haven't even had breakfast yet, so I'm not sure if this is it or not. But I may vanish from the Forum except for threads about the Landis investigation - I'm still a fan of justice.

I haven't paged back through the whole thread, but Velonation had the best article I've seen so far. Sorry if it's a duplicate link.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...equires-further-scientific-investigation.aspx

Bonnie Ford just posted this one:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5631343

 

[redtreviso]

So does a "contribution" from Lance get your samples only tested with the not so sensitive methods?

 

[D-Queued]

Serrano will have nothing to do with this - it is up to the Spanish cycling Federation (RFEC) to hear this case.
And although the amounts are small he is still positive and has to come up with a plausible reason to explain a 'contamination'.

Both WADA and UCI can take a case to CAS if they feel the RFEC have not conducted a fair or impartial investigation.

...it was a joke...

Dave.

 

[Barrus]

Finally you've said something that made sense!

I announced in the Forum months ago that my being a Contador fan was me giving pro cycling one last chance. I forget my exact wording, but the idea was that if he doped and it's proved, I'm done with the sport. I just woke up and haven't even had breakfast yet, so I'm not sure if this is it or not. But I may vanish from the Forum except for threads about the Landis investigation - I'm still a fan of justice.

I haven't paged back through the whole thread, but Velonation had the best article I've seen so far. Sorry if it's a duplicate link.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...equires-further-scientific-investigation.aspx

Bonnie Ford just posted this one:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5631343

Although I know that the piece by De Boer is written by an expert hired by the lawyer of Contador, it is still quite informative.

Also the wording by the UCI makes me believe that AC will get of with nothing but a warning, if even the UCI says they need further scientific investigation, you know that it is certainly contentious

 

[Publicus]

Publicus, surely they would have some grounds to release the information out to say it was a positive test? If they know the positive test is not substantial enough why would they release the results? It seems interesting that in Contador's statement he never said anything about it being 400 times under the amount required. Did the AFLD do the testing at le tour? . They legally could not say he tested positive if it is too minute to recognise as a positive test. There is much more to this that we don't know

Of course they had grounds, he had an illegal substance in both of his samples. What I think is that this is about showing the athletes just how precise their testing is and that no one is immune. Remember, this is coming on the heels of the WADA allegation that the UCI is sitting on at least 3 other positives. But that's just what I'm thinking at the moment, it's pure conjecture.

I really don't know what happens from here, so I'm going to just sit back and wait for more information to come out and see where it takes us.