Contador positive!!!!!

[mastersracer]

My understanding is that clenbuterol is banned in Europe (following the outbreaks in the 90s in meat). Is there any plausibility to tainted meat theory?

Contador now says he ate Filet Mignon on two consecutive days (July 20,21). He would have to be the only tour rider besides Chris Horner to eat so much red meat (Horner in the form of burgers).

 

[Swiss Tony]

I believe Contador innocent of doping.. for what its worth... Guilty of eating ****ty Spanish meat... should he loose everything and be branded a doper and drag our sport further down.. Seeing the news... it will just turn the general public further away from this great sport.... makes me just a tad sad

 

[El Pistolero]

Um, the poster I commented on said he was negative the day following the positive. I don't think you read the original. He said he was negative immediately preceding and immediately following the positive, this is not true. Word smith it how you like he tripped a positive the next day.

It would be scientifically impossible not to fail it the next day. It doesn't mean he used the product multiple days and that's what you were probably thinking about.

 

[bike_framed]

and the postive tests weren't leaked to the press.

That's because they were wrapped in plastic!

 

[El Pistolero]

What the ****?

Contador just said on TV a second ago that the UCI confirmed it is because of food contemination in a press conference. Bad translation or something(subtitles)?

 

[krebs303]

If Clenbuterol was widely seen in food or supplements, we'd be seeing lots more positives - given how low a level labs can now detect.

BACKGROUND: Clenbuterol: stimulant and anabolic accelerator

According to the World Anti-Doping Agency, 73 athletes were caught using clenbuterol in 2008 and 67 in 2009.

Contador is among those athletes who have blamed contaminated food or supplements for the positive test.

 

[Tubeless]

My understanding is that clenbuterol is banned in Europe (following the outbreaks in the 90s in meat). Is there any plausibility to tainted meat theory?

Contador now says he ate Filet Mignon on two consecutive days (July 20,21). He would have to be the only tour rider besides Chris Horner to eat so much red meat (Horner in the form of burgers).

And how many shots of whisky did Landis consume the day before he tested positive in 2006?

Clenbuterol is strictly banned within European Union. No farmer in their right mind would risk the penalties - due to the recent mad cow outbreaks meat inspections are frequent and common. Alberto will have to find a more believable source for the drug - supplements, chinese meat? The Texan BBQ theory is much more plausible, funny how these athletes get caught soon after they leave Armstrong's team.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

From ca. 00:01:40 to ca. 00:02:50 of that clip:

Q: How can the UCI´s behaviour concerning this case be explained?
A: The UCI has had a lot of problems concerning credibility during the
last years, think of, for example, Lance Armstrong, how they acted in
that case. In this story, in my opinion, it is totaly clear, that they
acted against the rules. A- and B-samples have long since been taken,
the the whole procedure has been complete and still the public has not
been informed. It seems as if this case should be kept under the mat,
or that they wanted to give Contador the opportunity to find points
which could speak for his innocence. Such a thing must not be, to me
it seems like a cartell of silencers, concealers and liars.

Q: Contador blames contaminated food, how likely is that?
A: ARD has exact values and these values show that it not very likely,
especially as in europe it is almost impossible that food is
contaminated with clenbuterol. It might happen in Asia, but is
strictly forbidden in europe an also there were no other positives at
the Tour, so Contador´s claims are not very credible.

Q: Are there any other suspicious facts against Contador?
A: Yes, there are futher, very, very incriminating[translation?] facts
against Contador because other values have shown up. [i have to
interprete this, because Seppelt says "10-fach über dem überhöhten
wert", which translates to "10 times higher than the higher
value". What he prabably means is:] 10 times higher than the value of
threshold for plastisisers, so called plastisisers, which are used in
blood-bags, and this one day before the positive blood sample. ANd these
blood-bag plastisisers endorse the conclusion that homologous blood
doping might be going on. The UCI completely held this "under the blanket", din´t
say a thing about it yesterday [when they contacted the UCI]. This too
raises the question about the credibility of die federation.

Does "blood transfusion" qualify as "more serious"?

Is it clear what "10 times higher than the higher value" refers too or did you assume that it's plasticisers? I would have thought having ANY plastic in your bloodstream would be considered abnormal...

 

[JRTinMA]

Some good quotes from some highly respected anti-doping experts including Bowdry. I like how Damsgaard called it a "Landis", classic.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...Results+|+VeloNation.com)&utm_content=Twitter

 

[theswordsman]

I'm having a lot of issues with this, especially with everything that came out at the anti-doping conference. A rider who was banned for the same substance told the press hours ago that there's a double standard. The problem is, it's the UCI, so it might not be a problem the way they're treating Contador now, but rather with the way they've treated other, less known and poorer athletes.

Contador has had some bad luck in his career, with his cavernoma and surgery, being kept out of the Tour because of things out of his control, Armstrong coming back, Armstrong and Bruyneel dismantling Astana while Contador was stuck there. But to have his chef ask a friend who knows them both to bring meat, and to have that tainted, and the UCI sending the sample to one of four labs in the whole world were it would test positive, is a really extreme example.

To know what other guys are doing and have him possibly lose a TdF and two years of his prime for a substance from decades ago that would give him no benefit, that's just plain wrong.

The bright spot for me as a fan is that I know he doesn't pay bribes to the UCI, because this is one they could have let slide without doing the sport harm. No one had to hear about it, yet everyone has.

 

[BroDeal]

Sure, but basically it's the same pattern - Tour winner tests positive for a common, well-known, and easily detectable substance the day after a rest day. Both point to the same source - contaminated blood transfusions taken on the rest day, in Landis' case w/exogenous testosterone and Contador's case w/clenbuterol.

Landis did not test positive after a rest day, and testosterone is not easily detectable. As long as a moderate dose is used, the T:TE ratio will stay below the 4:1 ratio that causes the IRMS test to be used. While there is good reason to use testosterone during a GT, there appears to be no reason to use Clen. There is not much in commong with the two cases.

 

[Angliru]

well.... you have given them a sample size of over 7,270 comments to assess...

I imagine that most people's closest friends would have 100% recall on no more than say 200 of their comments....

so technically, those on the forum that take the time to do the work are probably qualified to make some form of comment....


just sayin'

You were surgical with that one. Ouch!!

 

[Boeing]

Clenbuterol is a substance that has been used by skiers, runners, swimmers etc for the past 3 decades for weight loss and oxygen transfer etc. It is not anything new. It is a banned substance period. There were Olympic Athletes held out of the last Olympics because of a similar positive. In all that time has anyone ever suggested it is something you can take inadvertently?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think swordsman brings up some good points. But bad luck or not, I don't see how he escapes this without some sort of intervention from the UCI changing their rules just for him. And even if they do, it's still a real black mark against AC, and another against the sport.

I have to wonder if they let this go as "contaminated meat" just how many riders will use the excuse in the future? And when they do, what standards will the UCI point to if they don't give them a pass as well? And how many riders will actually believe this was from contamination, and go on a Leipheimer-type diet?

 

[Angliru]

And that is partly the problem I have with it all. He was tested the day before and there was nothing. This kills off the argument that it is a trace amount indicating he took a larger amount a day or two earlier. That leaves us with the idea that he intentionally took a very low (and apparently fairly pointless) amount.

Would be a lot more comfortable with it all if it wasn't so inexplicable...

Was the testing all done at the same German lab or was the testing shared by French labs unable to test to the higher percentages?

 

[Der_Gestreifte]

The blood bag contamination seems odd to me as well. It's just not a substance that makes much sense for him to be using, even out of competition.

Says who?
Well, I too think that dose is rediculously low, but what do I know.

It was pre-caffeine, so take this with a grain of salt, but I listend to an interview with Dr. Sörgel. He said athletes might just be one step ahead when they do substances (more or less in a trial and error way), which improve their performance and of which they think can´t be detectet in low doses.
It might be the same as with EPO: pre festina no one fancied using extremely low doses of EPO (remember that huge stock they found at festina´s) would give you a benefit, because no one had tried. It wasn´t meant to be microdosed, the leaflet said "the more the better" and that´s what they did until it became detectable and someone figured out you could microdose.

Yes, it still looks like a long shot, but then Contador´s reaction of "hey, there are only four labs that can do this" (to me) has a slight scent of overoptimism.

 

[bike_framed]

Probably not. I assume he gives a whole pill followed by some masking agents.

Not according to Professor Michel Audrun, one of the founders of the UCI’s Biological Passport system: “it cannot be masked like other products."

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...Damsgaard-Michel-Audrun-and-riders-react.aspx

 

[BroDeal]

Is it clear what "10 times higher than the higher value" refers too or did you assume that it's plasticisers? I would have thought having ANY plastic in your bloodstream would be considered abnormal...

There has probably been the same shoddy study of false positives that plagues underfunded anti-doping research. Heck, my Mom won't microwave anything using plastic wrap to prevent splatter because she has read that the plastic will give her cancer. There is so much plastic used in modern life, how do they tell the difference between a blood transfusion and eating a burrito reheated in a microwave.

 

[Intelligent Being]

Ah, faulty logic in many of the arm-chair drug testers here. A lab does not necessarily test for every known substance on every drug test. Just because Contador was tested the day before does not mean he was also tested for Clenbuterol on both days.

Contador is guilty.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ah, faulty logic in many of the arm-chair drug testers here. A lab does not necessarily test for every known substance on every drug test. Just because Contador was tested the day before does not mean he was also tested for Clenbuterol on both days.

Contador is guilty.

There would be nothing to stop them for testing the urine now on previous stages for clenbuterol.

You know, yellow jersey--> daily tests---> they can still test it now--> they actually did that and found nothing.

 

[slcbiker]

There has probably been the same shoddy study of false positives that plagues underfunded anti-doping research. Heck, my Mom won't microwave anything using plastic wrap to prevent splatter because she has read that the plastic will give her cancer. There is so much plastic used in modern life, how do they tell the difference between a blood transfusion and eating a burrito reheated in a microwave.

Or for that matter, water out of a plastic bidon?

But if they can do it, this would seem like a very good way to catch some of the doping methods that were previously pretty hard to detect.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Err, no. It's not about Armstrong. It's about an "anti-doping advocate" reacting to a positive by one of the more suspicious riders out there like an average keyboard warrior.

Maybe Lemond should ask himself why Contador would suddenly have a yearning for a steak from Irun that he can't control for contamination?

Major risk here, given all the examples of doped cattle in Spain. Really unprofessional.

He should have stopped at "if it's on the list it's on the list".

Well I'd somehow doubt the chef asked Contador did he want his steak, rare, medium or with clanbuterol.

On LeMond - well, it is something for WADA to do now.
Put in a threshold for substances like this and also make certain substances legal (or not sanctionable) for different sports.
Recently a rider got (IIRC) a 1 month suspension for smoking weed. Now that may be enhancing for a snooker or bowls player but there would be little enhancement for most other athletes. (but thats a subject fora different thread)

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Remember, it's almost impossible to take that small amount, or get any benefit from it. So the only reasonable way it got into his system is part of another mix. Such as a re-infusion of blood, which had very small amounts in it from previous use when extracted.

 

[Intelligent Being]

There would be nothing to stop them for testing the urine now on previous stages for clenbuterol.

You know, yellow jersey--> daily tests---> they can still test it now--> they actually did that and found nothing.

Oh, really? Where in the world did WADA say they tested for clenbuterol retroactively? And where did WADA say they kept extra samples?

 

[Intelligent Being]

Remember, it's almost impossible to take that small amount, or get any benefit from it. So the only reasonable way it got into his system is part of another mix. Such as a re-infusion of blood, which had very small amounts in it from previous use when extracted.

Contador doped. The stuff was passing through his system and he got caught. It's not like he is tested for clenbuterol every single day.