Contador positive!!!!!

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Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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offbyone said:
I would think that all the wada approved labs have similar testing abilities. So the AFLD lab which I assume in paris couldn't perform the same test as the UCI lab?
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the question is why did it go to cologne and not a french laboratory for testing since the race was in france? answer is, the cologne lab could test deeper into the sample, Non!
 
D

Der_Gestreifte

Jun 22, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
the question is why did it go to cologne and not a french laboratory for testing since the race was in france? answer is, the cologne lab could test deeper into the sample, Non!
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Correct me, but I thoght they went to Cologne (and Lausanne?) because of that Kindergarten fight whith AFLD.
Assuming Cologne could dig deeper than Chatenay-Malabry (which I can´t really imagine) some guys at the UCI must be royally pissed.
 
I

icefire

Sep 21, 2009
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Der_Gestreifte said:
Correct me, but I thoght they went to Cologne (and Lausanne?) because of that Kindergarten fight whith AFLD.
Assuming Cologne could dig deeper than Chatenay-Malabry (which I can´t really imagine) some guys at the UCI must be royally pissed.
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Next year they'll send all samples to Madrid :D
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
28,143
5
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Der_Gestreifte said:
Correct me, but I thoght they went to Cologne (and Lausanne?) because of that Kindergarten fight whith AFLD.
Assuming Cologne could dig deeper than Chatenay-Malabry (which I can´t really imagine) some guys at the UCI must be royally pissed.
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I imagine UCI are fuming BIG time!

The Vuelta samples went to the same laboratory in Cologne and they caught Xacebo and Garcia, why not a Spanish lab?

I imagine these guys are leading the testing at the moment and then all other labs will catch up to the level.

I bet there are a lot of sleepless pros out there at the moment wondering whether their samples are gonna be retested in Cologne.

did the Cologne lab do all the the TdF samples, would be interesting to know?

Will wada have access to retest other samples belonging to Contador in Cologne? Dauphine Libere, Paris Nice?
 
Alpe d'Huez

Alpe d'Huez

Mar 11, 2009
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I actually think that's a good idea. Let's send remaining A and B samples from all major recent races to the Cologne lab (or lab with same testing abilities) and see just what kind of results we actually get.

I'd also like to see the plastic test perfected, or at the very least run as is on random blood samples and see what kind of results they get. I realize this would not be accepted for sanctioning, and riders may throw up a protest, but just like the re-test of the 1999 Tour samples, I'd be very curious to see what samples from recent years show.
 
A

Aguirre

May 19, 2009
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robow7 said:
What are the chances that somewhere in Spain, a rancher is getting a call that goes something like this,

"Here's the deal, you admit to using clen with your beef for a short time this past year, you get fined, but we pay the fine and make sure there's a nice bonus in it for you. Alberto and the country's reputation is at steak (pardon the pun) here so we'll take care of you."
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don't make me laugh, you think spain is the third world? or worst?

for your information, spanish-basque health autorities doubt that clembuterol might be in a steak, of course they have to denie this is for social credibility...
 
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offbyone

May 3, 2010
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Roland Rat said:
Everyone should listen to Real Peloton episode 29, a Contador special. Great work. Includes a summary of all dodgy stuff he may have been involved in all the way back to 16, when he first worked with Manolo Saiz. Similar Armstrong thing too, whereby it is hypothesised his brain injury may have been caused by thickening of the blood caused by doping. A must listen.

http://www.realpeloton.com/Enclosures/podcast-29.mp3
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Yikes. Contador will have a shadow following him the rest of his career.

I will say that this situation also brings out some more inadequacies of our doping agencies. They absolutely need to tighten up the test standards if they want credibility. A positive should be a positive no matter which lab handles the samples and of course a negative should be a negative.
 
A

Aguirre

May 19, 2009
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listen, Irun is just around the corner, and I recall a conversation I had with my wife one month ago in a restaurant eating a burger: I said: "I trust in basque meat served in our country".

We had a discussion about danger in eggs, and chicken, also in meat, I somehow trust in meat, but of course I also have to think twice about eating meat!

My thinking is: what if the clen comes from another food suplement? I mean, they couldn't identity why, how, and when that happened and they invented the excuse of the steak.

Of course, this doesn't make him guilty of doping, to lie is not the same as to be tested positive. Maybe they had this hyphotese and they gave credit or truth to the hyphotese of the steak as the only factor could alter the value in orine.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Alpe d'Huez said:
I actually think that's a good idea. Let's send remaining A and B samples from all major recent races to the Cologne lab (or lab with same testing abilities) and see just what kind of results we actually get.

I'd also like to see the plastic test perfected, or at the very least run as is on random blood samples and see what kind of results they get. I realize this would not be accepted for sanctioning, and riders may throw up a protest, but just like the re-test of the 1999 Tour samples, I'd be very curious to see what samples from recent years show.
Click to expand...

I would love to know did the same lab test Shleck's samples.

Also did the same lab in Cologne test Vino's and why did they not find plasticizers in his sample?
 
nicholaaaas

nicholaaaas

Mar 14, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
You are right. It might still happen. Here is the probability of that happening:
;)


Nobody have said that in all the cases where there has been contamination it has been with liver. Is this a non issue? I thought Contador wasn't eating liver anyway.
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oh the probability made by guessing the probability of just about every variable? get outta here with that.

now since people seem to think that no clen has been in food products in europe for 20 years:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2621.2007.01496.x/abstract

the article also seems to indicate there are allowable levels.

and here again

http://www.springerlink.com/content/h82t23pk1k32htl4/

Consequently, it became clear that prudent use of not only antimicrobials used for treatment and prevention of disease but also those used for growth promotion (e.g. β-agonists or steroid hormones) in farm animals is an integral part of good veterinary practice.
Click to expand...
 
nicholaaaas

nicholaaaas

Mar 14, 2009
252
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offbyone said:
I would think that all the wada approved labs have similar testing abilities. So the AFLD lab which I assume in paris couldn't perform the same test as the UCI lab?
Click to expand...

you think wrong then. they ALL have minimum requirements to be an accredited lab. some are much more advanced
 
Escarabajo

Escarabajo

Apr 16, 2009
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nicholaaaas said:
oh the probability made by guessing the probability of just about every variable? get outta here with that.

...
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Why. Even if you guess wrong, every time that Contador brings a new parameter or event to the table he is bringing a new uncertainty, and therefore reducing the chance of the final outcome to happen. That's how humans think anyway. So why do you think a lot of people is putting to doubt Contador’s theory? At this point I can bet you money that there are a lot of people that stopped believing in his innocence because of the story he told. The less you say the better for him. But you see that's how a guilty brain operates; they are always trying too hard to find a story for people to believe and at the end it makes it worse.

After all I feel a little bad for Contador because I like the guy.
 
hrotha

hrotha

Jun 10, 2010
19,796
2,046
25,680
Escarabajo said:
Why. Even if you guess wrong, every time that Contador brings a new parameter or event to the table he is bringing a new uncertainty, and therefore reducing the chance of the final outcome to happen. That's how humans think anyway. So why do you think a lot of people is putting to doubt Contador’s theory? At this point I can bet you money that there are a lot of people that stopped believing in his innocence because of the story he told. The less you say the better for him. But you see that's how a guilty brain operates; they are always trying too hard to find a story for people to believe and at the end it makes it worse.

After all I feel a little bad for Contador because I like the guy.
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If he's indeed guilty, I can't bring myself to like someone who can lie with such ease. Are u23 riders already trained to be sociopaths? Gotta admit he's a good actor.
 
I

icefire

Sep 21, 2009
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Spanish RTVE has an article with data provided by a veterinary (the man is a recognised authority in mad cows):

http://www.rtve.es/deportes/2010100...rinario-argumento-contador-debil/358176.shtml

Summary:

He doesn't understand why athletes use clen. Ok, he may care about his own health more than pro riders about theirs.

45000 pieces of meat were tested in Europe in 2008. Only 20 had clen.

Nevertheless, Contador's argument is very weak because cannot be proved.

The Association of Beef Meat Producers is working with experts in toxicology to assess the actual likelihood of finding clen in urine samples after eating tainted meat.
 
131313

131313

Jun 18, 2009
1,225
1
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Escarabajo said:
Why. Even if you guess wrong, every time that Contador brings a new parameter or event to the table he is bringing a new uncertainty, and therefore reducing the chance of the final outcome to happen. That's how humans think anyway. So why do you think a lot of people is putting to doubt Contador’s theory? At this point I can bet you money that there are a lot of people that stopped believing in his innocence because of the story he told. The less you say the better for him. But you see that's how a guilty brain operates; they are always trying too hard to find a story for people to believe and at the end it makes it worse.

After all I feel a little bad for Contador because I like the guy.
Click to expand...

Well, he could have done what Zirbel did and just said "I have no idea how it got there". You see how that worked out for him.

Personally, I think it's silly to put all of the eggs in the meat angle, when the reality it that it could be from almost anything. If you were to take a random sample of 100 people and test them for those levels of Clenbuterol, I imagine you'd end up with some pretty surprising results.

I also find it pretty funny that some Spanish scientists are so quick to dismiss the possibility, and conveniently omit the fact the Clenbuterol is still widely used, and legal, in agriculture. It seems they'd rather just toss Bertie under the bus (since he's probably a doped up cyclists) than go through the effort to explain that there are actually acceptable levels of Clenbuterol (and a lot of other scary-sounding substances) laced through the food chain.
 
thehog

thehog

BANNED
Jul 27, 2009
31,285
2
22,485
131313 said:
Well, he could have done what Zirbel did and just said "I have no idea how it got there". You see how that worked out for him.

Personally, I think it's silly to put all of the eggs in the meat angle, when the reality it that it could be from almost anything. If you were to take a random sample of 100 people and test them for those levels of Clenbuterol, I imagine you'd end up with some pretty surprising results.

I also find it pretty funny that some Spanish scientists are so quick to dismiss the possibility, and conveniently omit the fact the Clenbuterol is still widely used, and legal, in agriculture. It seems they'd rather just toss Bertie under the bus (since he's probably a doped up cyclists) than go through the effort to explain that there are actually acceptable levels of Clenbuterol (and a lot of other scary-sounding substances) laced through the food chain.
Click to expand...

The food industry/lobby is very strong and powerful. Much more so than any athlete even one of national standing. The food industry is not about to let people believe there is growth hormone and steroids in meat produce. Which there is of course but they don't want you to know that.
 
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