Contador positive!!!!!

[frenchfry]

Well, he could have done what Zirbel did and just said "I have no idea how it got there". You see how that worked out for him.

Personally, I think it's silly to put all of the eggs in the meat angle, when the reality it that it could be from almost anything. If you were to take a random sample of 100 people and test them for those levels of Clenbuterol, I imagine you'd end up with some pretty surprising results.

I also find it pretty funny that some Spanish scientists are so quick to dismiss the possibility, and conveniently omit the fact the Clenbuterol is still widely used, and legal, in agriculture. It seems they'd rather just toss Bertie under the bus (since he's probably a doped up cyclists) than go through the effort to explain that there are actually acceptable levels of Clenbuterol (and a lot of other scary-sounding substances) laced through the food chain.

The sample might not be random, but with all the tests done in cycling there are ony 2 positives for Clenbuterol despite the propensity to use it for performance enhancement. Maybe this low ratio is due to the levels being under the ability of most labs to find, but it wouldn't appear that there is widespread contamination as you suggest.

 

[JPM London]

Wait a minute... In all this hullaballoo I think we all missed something: Vino was tested and came back clean?

 

[Animal]

Nobody missed that. Do keep up.

 

[131313]

The sample might not be random, but with all the tests done in cycling there are ony 2 positives for Clenbuterol despite the propensity to use it for performance enhancement. Maybe this low ratio is due to the levels being under the ability of most labs to find, but it wouldn't appear that there is widespread contamination as you suggest.

If all labs tested to the same degree of resolution, you'd see a lot more than 2 positives. I highly doubt that even all of the Tour samples were tested to that degree of resolution.

Here's a quote from Bonny Ford's ESPN article:

"Many countries have outlawed the practice of dosing livestock with clenbuterol or steroids, but there is evidence that low-level environmental contamination remains pervasive. In a 2009 scholarly paper co-authored by Prof. Wilhelm Schaenzer, the Cologne lab director, he and two other German experts concluded: "With a detectability of clenbuterol at this low concentration, positive findings in residue analysis and doping control could be due to the consumption of trace amounts found in [livestock] feed or principally also in the water supply. Threshold concentration amounts for clenbuterol in doping control have, therefore, to be considered in the future."

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=5634190

 

[Benotti69]

If all labs tested to the same degree of resolution, you'd see a lot more than 2 positives. I highly doubt that even all of the Tour samples were tested to that degree of resolution.

Here's a quote from Bonny Ford's ESPN article:

"Many countries have outlawed the practice of dosing livestock with clenbuterol or steroids, but there is evidence that low-level environmental contamination remains pervasive. In a 2009 scholarly paper co-authored by Prof. Wilhelm Schaenzer, the Cologne lab director, he and two other German experts concluded: "With a detectability of clenbuterol at this low concentration, positive findings in residue analysis and doping control could be due to the consumption of trace amounts found in [livestock] feed or principally also in the water supply. Threshold concentration amounts for clenbuterol in doping control have, therefore, to be considered in the future."

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=5634190

well that's Contador off on a 3 month break to prepare for next season

 

[Arnout]

According to Mart Smeets, Dutch journalist, with a 98% certainty Contador will ride next season and will not be suspended (apart from the three months now), as the amount is too small and the blood passport does not give (enough?) reason to ban him for doping.

He also said UCI and WADA both hired three experts. The WADA is desperate to catch a big rider, the UCI not. Nothing new...

 

[Mich78BEL]

According to Mart Smeets, Dutch journalist, with a 98% certainty Contador will ride next season and will not be suspended (apart from the three months now), as the amount is too small and the blood passport does not give (enough?) reason to ban him for doping.

He also said UCI and WADA both hired three experts. The WADA is desperate to catch a big rider, the UCI not. Nothing new...

seems unlikely, other riders have gotten suspentions (like Keisse) for similar offence (only tiny traces found of a banned substance), don't see why Contador should get a different treatment

 

[Arnout]

seems unlikely, other riders have gotten suspentions (like Keisse) for similar offence (only tiny traces found of a banned substance), don't see why Contador should get a different treatment

Like I said, politics. And the fact that there is no hard evidence. I hope he won't be banned.

Don't like Keisse is banned either, or the Chinese rider.

 

[roundabout]

There's no hard evidence that a steak was the cause of the positive.

Fact is that Contador tested positive for a prohibited substance.

Everything else is sugarcoating.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I am honest, i was naive. I tought the UCI does not try to cover up anymore. But i am now disabused. How they want(ed) to keep the Contador case under the carpet is impertinent. Who tells us that they don´t know more (like a suspicious passport). 1st i was 50/50 of guilty or not. Now i am 100% sure, Contador doped. My only hope is that the WADA can bring this case to the CAS (can they??), if the UCI gives Contador only a 3 month "ban". Ridiculous.
Now it makes 100% sense that indeed they were paid by Armstrong to let go a positive Epo-Test at the TdS.
How stupid McQuaid thinks we are? What does it tell to the clean riders? I hope Gerdemann, Offredo and Chavanel speak out even more. This basterd and his gang is as worse as the FIFA.
If i see Contador racing next year, i finish with cycling (watching) for good. My hope is many others will follow. Shall the Fanboys be the only ones who watch this mess. What a waste of time.

I hope potential sponsors shy away forever.

 

[Aguirre]

how could be that there are evidence of blood trasnfussions if the clen was found in orine? then, there is any official document issued by UCI about the plastic things, just stuff raised by german laboratory-german TV.

Pretty amazing about your truth on news!!!!

Do you believe contador is gonna use blood transfussions in rest day at tour de france being in yellow? do you think he and his sorroundings or even Astana are stupid?

Contador doesn't deserve a sanction at all, and maybe some others didn't too, I mean Fu Ly and others. Because they were punished Contador has do be punished? weak argument, I would see in the other way round, Contador case opens a new era in doping or must open, the system must be reviewed, and maybe UCI should recognised mistakes and cancel the ban to FL, even if the damage is donne.

 

[Aguirre]

Unfortunately no one wants to hear from clean riders who don't win anything. Those riders don't have any clout.

And the cats with the clout are going to remain quiet like they always do.

Let's face it, if Bradley Wiggins comes out and makes a declaration against Contador, who's going to listen to him? NOBODY. Who's going to care? NO ONE. What impact will it have? NONE.

ha, ha, ha, ha, ha even Millar defends contador, wiggo should have enough searching for a miracle for next season, a new formula...

 

[JPM London]

Do you believe contador is gonna use blood transfussions in rest day at tour de france being in yellow?

Well, the rest day is a pretty good day to refill... Mellow Johnny or not...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Do you believe contador is gonna use blood transfussions in rest day at tour de france being in yellow? do you think he and his sorroundings or even Astana are stupid?

Do you believe Contador is doing the transfusions during stages? As far as i remember Kohl did those things also on rest days.
Being in yellow by a safe 8 seconds, of course no reason to re-fill, and no mountain stage and long ITT coming...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Because they were punished Contador has do be punished? weak argument, I would see in the other way round, Contador case opens a new era in doping or must open, the system must be reviewed, and maybe UCI should recognised mistakes and cancel the ban to FL, even if the damage is donne.

Yes the ban should be lifted. And pls also for Hamilton, because of his twin brother, you know

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

ha, ha, ha, ha, ha even Millar defends contador, wiggo should have enough searching for a miracle for next season, a new formula...

So you know he is clean now, because he told you so, and talked to Kimmage.

I like Offredo, Chavanel more. Not so shady like Millar.

 

[Der_Gestreifte]

how could be that there are evidence of blood trasnfussions if the clen was found in orine?

Simple.
Substances whithin your body get excreted through urin.

then, there is any official document issued by UCI about the plastic things, just stuff raised by german laboratory-german TV.

It´s just stuff that lab (seems to have) found and will never be more than that since it isn´t on any prohibited list.

Do you believe contador is gonna use blood transfussions in rest day at tour de france being in yellow?

Definitley, and not only Contador.

do you think he and his sorroundings or even Astana are stupid?

Did Flandis deny doping against all commom sense, did Ullrich defy every rational thougt (for years!), did Fuentes use totally stupid "codes" for his customers, do they come up with excuses like "for my dog/mother in law"?
Yes, they are all stupid.
And what´s really annoying: they´re the ones who think everybody else is stupid and expect us to believe their BS.

Contador doesn't deserve a sanction at all, and maybe some others didn't too, I mean Fu Ly and others.

If he ingested that substance via contaminated meat, I´m with you an that one.

Because they were punished Contador has do be punished?

Of course, and of course they all have the right to take it to CAS or La Hague or wherever.

I would see in the other way round, Contador case opens a new era in doping

Why Contador and not unknown Li or that german tabletennis player?
(but we might agree that Contador open[s|ed] a new era in doping )

the system must be reviewed

Definitely true.
Banning s.o. for a (seemlingly?) non-enhancing amount of drugs should´t be possible.

 

[Aguirre]

I dont defend Millar, I mean he just spoke and gave the benefit of the doubt to contador, back to facts: I don't see Bernaudeau, J, Pinau, M. Madiot, Chavanel and the rest of the anti-doping group blaming contador, not McEween, Gerrans, even Garmin DS dosn't accuse contador.

I only see the German press making tabloid-journalism using this, the same german TV droping the TdF stuff, the Danish allergia, (ALWAYS SAME HISTORY)
and also forum debate as the only ones who want crucify the best rider in the world.

the case will end soon, but conti will have to suffer in the coming years

 

[JPM London]

Also did the same lab in Cologne test Vino's and why did they not find plasticizers in his sample?

As far as I know nobody says they didn't... The only reason we know about Conti's plastic is because of the German media. There has been no official note about it and hence you wouldn't hear about Vino or anybody else in the peloton for that matter - why? Maybe because plastic is not considered a PED... I dunno.

Spanish RTVE has an article with data provided by a veterinary (the man is a recognised authority in mad cows):

http://www.rtve.es/deportes/2010100...rinario-argumento-contador-debil/358176.shtml

Summary:

He doesn't understand why athletes use clen. Ok, he may care about his own health more than pro riders about theirs.

45000 pieces of meat were tested in Europe in 2008. Only 20 had clen.

Sorry - no habla Espanol - so haven't read it. But were those test made to the same precision? I highly doubt it - they would probably have focused on higher amounts where it can pose a health risk. Hell, we even know that dope test are rarely done to this degree of certainty and that the labs own director as long ago as last year noted that this would become a potential problem due to general contamination. What I'm saying here is that those 20 cows could easily be anything up to 45K if tested the same way as Conti...

I haven't seen this anywhere else:

http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos...errar-caso-contador-cuanto-antes/892399.shtml

UCI wants to close Contador's case ASAP with a 3 months suspension starting in November.

If they're planning to let him keep the Tour win, doesn't that go against the WADA rules??????

 

[Aguirre]

The german laboratory was very, very cautious about the case at the beginning, they were collaborating with UCI, but what happened then?

The conspiracy plot is behind this. Why a laboratory or a person related to a laboratory should raise this despite UCI?

I see a break in between that Lab and UCi coming up...

What I meant about blood transfussions: I don't see reliable that after the police rides of the last years, the extremly controled maillot jaune, Contador and his entourage, would go for blood transfussions (with all this means, blood bags, jeringues, medical stuff) in the rest day of a previous blood enriched by.... Clen!!!!!

Of course the posibility is rather good for a conspiracy, fantasy scenario of cycling fans or those that hate contador, but based in facts or possibilities...

I'm sure that people involved in cycling, teams, DS, riders don't see as possible to still the the MJ was using blood transfussion on a rest day enriched by clen. What's why they shup up.

If contador had doped, there will be more evidence, clear proof, I believe in controls, don't believe in imagination as truth

 

[Aguirre]

more seriously I see very little discussion in this forum about food conditions in our capitalist society.

It's is clear that eating a steak is not as healthy as eating an apple, and considering that even an apple can be contaminated... no to mention transgenics

Food is a global bussiness, in europe people eat fish from the Nyle, hake from south-africa, meat can be even from argentina (Parrilla argentina, uhmmm), and the chemical industrie and food are extremly associated.

Strange, everybody takes from granted the meat they eat comes from the farmer around the corner...

right now there are chemical substances in namograms in our blood we can't even think are

 

[Der_Gestreifte]

If they're planning to let him keep the Tour win, doesn't that go against the WADA rules??????

I´ve been flipping through their code for all this afternoon, because I´m not sure about WADAs role in all of this.
I´m also all for the "sweep it under the mat" theory, but it looks like UCI is complying with the WADA code (there´s lot of fuzzy "timely" and "may").

So, concerning Contador´s Tour win:

10.1 Disqualification of Results in the Event During
which an Anti-Doping Rule Violation Occurs
An anti-doping rule violation occurring during or in
connection with an Event may, upon the decision of
the ruling body of the Event, lead to Disqualification of
all of the Athlete's individual results obtained in that
Event with all Consequences, including forfeiture of
all medals, points and prizes, except as provided in
Article 10.1.1.
10.1.1 If the Athlete establishes that he or she bears
No Fault or Negligence for the violation, the
Athlete's individual results in the other
Competitions shall not be Disqualified unless
the Athlete's results in Competitions other
than the Competition in which the anti-
doping rule violation occurred were likely to
have been affected by the Athlete's anti-
doping rule violation.

But then there is lack of information whether Contador "establishes that he or she bears No Fault or Negligence for the violation".

 

[hrotha]

What I meant about blood transfussions: I don't see reliable that after the police rides of the last years, the extremly controled maillot jaune, Contador and his entourage, would go for blood transfussions (with all this means, blood bags, jeringues, medical stuff) in the rest day of a previous blood enriched by.... Clen!!!!!

The mistake here, I think, is that you assume blood doping was a decision Contador made at any given time. "Ok, I'll take the risk - I'll go for a transfusion". In reality, it's not like that. The decision would have been not to blood dope. If a rider has been blood doping throughout his whole career, getting away with it because he's been careful enough and he knows how things work, then the risky thing to do before a decisive mountain stage would be not to use the refill in the rest day. Blood transfusions are the normal procedure, for a long-time doper they're as normal as a training camp before the Tour.

The key here, of course, is that riders know what they have to do to avoid detection when blood doping, so they only get caught when they make a mistake or there's a sudden jump in the antidoping tests (say, a new test is introduced). If Contador blood doped, he never thought he was taking a bigger risk than the common dangers associated with cycling, like crashing during a training ride.

 

[Aguirre]

blood transfussion is considered doping, doesnt matter if the blood contains dop... or not. Clean bood re-injected is doping

The risk of finding a blood bag is enough to dis-encourage a rider to get dopping, at least in TDF. The previous case could be until 2007. 2008 saw CERA.

I highly doubt any rider, team, DS would risk to use such a methods in the last tdf and also in 2009.

 

[Escarabajo]

.... In a 2009 scholarly paper co-authored by Prof. Wilhelm Schaenzer, the Cologne lab director, he and two other German experts concluded: "With a detectability of clenbuterol at this low concentration, positive findings in residue analysis and doping control could be due to the consumption of trace amounts found in [livestock] feed or principally also in the water supply. Threshold concentration amounts for clenbuterol in doping control have, therefore, to be considered in the future."

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=5634190

Well, this is Contador's biggest defense. To have the Cologne lab director supporting your theory.