Contador positive!!!!!

[samerics]

Has it been considered whether or not Contador was the ONLY person who ate from the specific "batch" or "cut" of meat?

If he was the only Astana rider eating the "contaminated" meat, I would be surprised. Very surprised.

If they all ate steaks, one would think there would be at least a few of them who'd also show these so called traces of Clenbuterol.

The German report about plasticisers, now that is very interesting.

Consider the fact the in the US, baseballer Manny Ramirez tested positive for hcg, but it was further testing that showed positive IRMS for synth T that provoked him to cop to the issue of hcg, in order to avoid the bigger scandal.

It could very well be that this is the "unfortunate" food contamination, which carries plenty of plausible deniability, is the cover for a greater, more damning offense.

To be fair, only Alberto and Vino were tested, and he didn't have the meat, apprently!

 

[Angliru]

Yes you`re wright, in next 2 years

If I recall correctly wasn't there suspicion swirling around Menchov during or following his Giro victory?

 

[Barrus]

Conclusions

1) The found concentration of CLENBUTEROL in the urine sample of Mr. Contador is extremely low.

2) It is extremely likely and would be only fair to regard the scenario of accidental intake low amounts of CLENBUTEROL by meat consumption.

3) WADA-accredited laboratories should not report CLENBUTEROL below 10% (1/10th) of its MRPL of 2 ng/mL, i.e. 0.2 ng/mL (= 200 pg/mL) as being a `fair and reasonable` concentration for an Adverse Analytical Finding of CLENBUTEROL.

from the report of Dr Douwe de Boer, which can be read, in english, here
http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=31038

For anyone reading this, do take into account that this report was made on the basis of an assignment put forth by a lawyer, COntie's lawyer

Also concerning the theory of the contaminated blood bag, if this was the case there should be clear indicators in the blood passport, which might be the extra scientific investigation tha tthe UCI is talking about

 

[samerics]

If the plasticisers thing is right then we have a totally different scenario, even if the rules aren't in place yet, they can easily be backdated.

 

[Polish]

Has it been considered whether or not Contador was the ONLY person who ate from the specific "batch" or "cut" of meat?

If he was the only Astana rider eating the "contaminated" meat, I would be surprised. Very surprised.

If they all ate steaks, one would think there would be at least a few of them who'd also show these so called traces of Clenbuterol.

The German report about plasticisers, now that is very interesting.

Consider the fact the in the US, baseballer Manny Ramirez tested positive for hcg, but it was further testing that showed positive IRMS for synth T that provoked him to cop to the issue of hcg, in order to avoid the bigger scandal.

It could very well be that this is the "unfortunate" food contamination, which carries plenty of plausible deniability, is the cover for a greater, more damning offense.

It could be that the others riders eating the meat were not tested.

Different topic...

If Alberto was using Clen back in May to fight allergies etc while he did his private "Tour Prep", and some of that Clen left a "marker" in his blood bag that he transfused with at the Tour - is that 2 infractions or just 1?

 

[Apolitical]

wow! Does this make sense?

via bbc:

World Anti-Doping Agency-accredited lab in Cologne, Germany, found a "very small concentration" of clenbuterol in Contador's urine sample on 21 July at the Tour, according to the UCI.


Spain's Alberto Contador is cycling's biggest star
However, the amount was 400 times less than the 50 picogram benchmark measurement that anti-doping laboratories accredited by Wada must be able to detect.

 

[JRTinMA]

wow! Does this make sense?

via bbc:

World Anti-Doping Agency-accredited lab in Cologne, Germany, found a "very small concentration" of clenbuterol in Contador's urine sample on 21 July at the Tour, according to the UCI.


Spain's Alberto Contador is cycling's biggest star
However, the amount was 400 times less than the 50 picogram benchmark measurement that anti-doping laboratories accredited by Wada must be able to detect.

Yes it does. I know it's a long thread but read back a little. Benchmark is a minimum to be accredited. No amount of clem is allowed.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I have a killer argument now

Not only that biochemicus (De Boer) claims it can only be due to contamined food. My mum says the same, now before you laugh, she worked as lab analist and biochemical specialist for over 20 years.
She doesn't know a thing about cycling or anything, and I just asked her what she thinks about somebody caught with such a small amount of clenbutarol. First thing she said was contamined food, and that it isn't possible to have/take such a micro dose in any other way.

Contador might do other stuff I don't know of, but they cannot convict him because of this

 

[SlowBloke]

But the point is - it is not for the UCI to prove Alberto's innocence.

Its his sample - positive for a banned substance - its up to him (& his legal, scientific team) to come up with a scenario to show that he did not willfully ingest this.
Even if he can do that - he is still guilty, but could be liable for a lesser sanction. Which may be appealed by WADA.

But if they want to bust him good and proper, rather than have some meaningless "three months because you have a good excuse" cop out, then a more indepth investigation and a bust for a transfusion would be worth it. What would happen to Astana as well? Good bye Vino - thanks for the memories, but we now have a good reason to show you the door for good?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have a killer argument now

Not only that biochemicus (De Boer) claims it can only be due to contamined food. My mum says the same, now before you laugh, she worked as lab analist and biochemical specialist for over 20 years.
She doesn't know a thing about cycling or anything, and I just asked her what she thinks about somebody caught with such a small amount of clenbutarol. First thing she said was contamined food, and that it isn't possible to have/take such a micro dose in any other way.

Contador might do other stuff I don't know of, but they cannot convict him because of this

No - this is the point, they can (and should).

He has come up positive for something that is banned - no threshold, no TUE.
He requests a B sample analysis - ooops B confirms the A.
He now has admitted that he is positive - but claims contaminated meat.

He is still positive - doesnt matter how it go there!

 

[ak-zaaf]

No - this is the point, they can (and should).

He has come up positive for something that is banned - no threshold, no TUE.
He requests a B sample analysis - ooops B confirms the A.
He now has admitted that he is positive - but claims contaminated meat.

He is still positive - doesnt matter how it go there!

He's responsible for what he eats. WADA is pretty strict on that.

 

[theswordsman]

Has it been considered whether or not Contador was the ONLY person who ate from the specific "batch" or "cut" of meat?

If he was the only Astana rider eating the "contaminated" meat, I would be surprised. Very surprised.

If they all ate steaks, one would think there would be at least a few of them who'd also show these so called traces of Clenbuterol.

According to the story, the organizer for the Volta a Catalunya was heading to the Tour and asked Contador if he could bring him anything. Alberto asked for steak, because he didn't like the meat in the hotels(?) Vino was the only other Astana rider tested that day, and he had eaten something else for dinner earlier. Four or so teammates ate with Contador, but none of them were tested.

I added the question mark because I've read about the chef who cooked for Contador during the Tour, and had no idea he would use ingredients from the hotel. But whatever.

 

[Berzin]

There is a breaking development in this case that sounds strange, but I'm passing it along.

Contador's blood may have had an unusual level of plastic in it. In developing a test for blood transfusions, the testers have been working on a test that shows the amount of plastic in blood that has been transfused and has been sitting in a plastic bag for a while.

This information I received from a buddy of mine on the Velonews site and is being released from German news sources.

So if we have any German members of the forum who are tuning in from Germany, please let us know what's going on.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

There is a breaking development in this case that sounds strange, but I'm passing it along.

Contador's blood may have had an unusual level of plastic in it. In developing a test for blood transfusions, the testers have been working on a test that shows the amount of plastic in blood that has been transfused and has been sitting in a plastic bag for a while.

This information I received from a buddy of mine on the Velonews site and is being released from German news sources.

So if we have any German members of the forum who are tuning in from Germany, please let us know what's going on.

 

[ak-zaaf]

There is a breaking development in this case that sounds strange, but I'm passing it along.

Contador's blood may have had an unusual level of plastic in it. In developing a test for blood transfusions, the testers have been working on a test that shows the amount of plastic in blood that has been transfused and has been sitting in a plastic bag for a while.

This information I received from a buddy of mine on the Velonews site and is being released from German news sources.

So if we have any German members of the forum who are tuning in from Germany, please let us know what's going on.

Life in plastic, it's fantastic!

 

[SlowBloke]

And the ADFL were not involved...

and the postive tests weren't leaked to the press.

Just saying.....

 

[Barrus]

Question is, if Contie is banned and has a really lenient sentence (nowadays tat would probably amount to 3 to 6 months) what would happen with his win, is that for the ASO to decide, or for the UCI/WADA?


Also the plastic thing, I would like to know what test is used for that, how many labs have access to these tests and how manysamples are tested with it.

 

[sometriguy]

If they have accurate tests for plastics (or derivatives), I would assume a whole lot more people would be in trouble

 

[El Pistolero]

I have a killer argument now

Not only that biochemicus (De Boer) claims it can only be due to contamined food. My mum says the same, now before you laugh, she worked as lab analist and biochemical specialist for over 20 years.
She doesn't know a thing about cycling or anything, and I just asked her what she thinks about somebody caught with such a small amount of clenbutarol. First thing she said was contamined food, and that it isn't possible to have/take such a micro dose in any other way.

Contador might do other stuff I don't know of, but they cannot convict him because of this

All you can do is hope none of these guys here ever get to be a judge at a murder-case. I mean people are even stating Andy Schleck is doping because how he reacted to Contador's news lol. If Conti tested postive for blood doping, EPO, Cera sure he'd be a cheater, but I just don't see how you can cheat with a micro-dose of clenbutarol.

 

[Polish]

There is a breaking development in this case that sounds strange, but I'm passing it along.

Contador's blood may have had an unusual level of plastic in it. In developing a test for blood transfusions, the testers have been working on a test that shows the amount of plastic in blood that has been transfused and has been sitting in a plastic bag for a while.

This information I received from a buddy of mine on the Velonews site and is being released from German news sources.

So if we have any German members of the forum who are tuning in from Germany, please let us know what's going on.

Maybe Alberto was so famished he ate the meat without taking the wrapper off? What would Eddy do?

 

[zastomito]

If they have accurate tests for plastics (or derivatives), I would assume a whole lot more people would be in trouble

This. And if they did discovered plastic, can they date it, can they prove that it has been in contact with blood for 3-4 months? If not, than he can simply say that he received infusion.

 

[Tubeless]

ARD has exact values and these values show that it not very likely, especially as in europe it is almost impossible that food is contaminated with clenbuterol. It might happen in Asia, but is strictly forbidden in europe an also there were no other positives at the Tour, so Contador´s claims are not very credible.

Clenbuterol is forbidden in the EU area for use in cattle feed or medication - Spain is a member of EU. This book, published in 2003, gives a listing of clenbuterol contaminations, last known case in Europe happened in Italy in 1996.

http://books.google.com/books?id=VZ...v=onepage&q=clenbuterol European beef&f=false

Contador's own defense doc simply states the following:

Knowing the history of CLENBUTEROL intoxications in Spain and knowing the fact nowadays CLENBUTEROL can be detected in extremely low amounts, it is obvious that in this particular case the scenario of an accidental intake of CLENBUTEROL by consumption of meat is extremely likely.

http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=31038

Which is pretty weak - no proof or examples given for recent clenbuterol intoxications.

The defense seems to focus on the trace amount, not enough to provide a performance boost. But it ignores the obvious alternative source, pointed to by many - a blood transfusion which we know from past doping masters is optimal to give on the rest day, just before the battle on the Tourmalet.

Eating beef contaminated with a substance that's illegal for use in cattle, imported from Spain, in the middle of the tour, hours before a positive test - whom the only another team member tested did not consume seems a bit of a stretch. Not quite Tyler's unborn twin, but it seems headed in that direction as more details come out.

 

[GoGarmin]

This. And if they did discovered plastic, can they date it, can they prove that it has been in contact with blood for 3-4 months? If not, than he can simply say that he received infusion.

If they've created a test for plastic, as in the plastic from blood bag transfusions, that's fantastic. Way to go.

 

[SlowBloke]

Clen microdose isn't the PED

All you can do is hope none of these guys here ever get to be a judge at a murder-case. I mean people are even stating Andy Schleck is doping because how he reacted to Contador's news lol. If Conti tested postive for blood doping, EPO, Cera sure he'd be a cheater, but I just don't see how you can cheat with a micro-dose of clenbutarol.

I don't think anybody is saying he micro-dosed the clen. A slight oversight on what was in the stored blood seems to be the favoured reason, if you doubt the dodgy meat option.

 

[fatandfast]

"so I was training and eating this way for 7 months and right as I took the lead in the tour I deiced to mix things up by eating a big French steak that I shared with Vino""oh yea we also washed it down with some Jack Daniels that I bought at the Phonak garage sale"