Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid

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BradCantona said:
That was essentially his campaign message, hence stressing the importance of independence from anti-doping testing, and a fresh start following McQuaid.
I completely understand that was the public message, but the public doesn't vote for UCI presidents. The UCI answers to no one. Particularly you and I.

BradCantona said:
unless you're expecting miracles that was never going to be achieved in less than a year
Obfuscating doping sanctions is a step forward?

Sadly, you've bought the entire "independence" argument from Cookson and we know it to be a farce already. If Cookson was really after transparency and protecting the integrity of the sport the only thing needed would be to grant NADO's the power to open cases on their own. That's not happened and there are too many reason why it won't.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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BradCantona said:
Frustration with the pace of change is one thing, but this is just nonsense for me. If the UCI could rid the sport of its cheats, it would do so in a heartbeat. If nothing else, because it holds them back in capitalising on the further commercialisation of the sport
absolutely - let's have a look at higher commercially league (soccer, tennis, hockey, basseball, NFL), all clean (or rather swiping the garbage under the carpet more effectively?)
 
May 26, 2009
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doperhopper said:
absolutely - let's have a look at higher commercially league (soccer, tennis, hockey, basseball, NFL), all clean (or rather swiping the garbage under the carpet more effectively?)
Baseball actually does bust players for PED's. Granted the minor league players have harder controls, but guys on the Major League roster get busted too.

I'm not saying Baseball is clean, far from it.
 
Jul 1, 2013
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doperhopper said:
absolutely - let's have a look at higher commercially league (soccer, tennis, hockey, basseball, NFL), all clean (or rather swiping the garbage under the carpet more effectively?)
Sports like football / tennis are at the pre Festina stage, most people will be of the belief their superstars are all fully clean, because not enough muck has come out. If something major came put as definatively confirmed doping at the top level (say the winners of the last two World Cups were shown to be blood doping), that would change things. Not sure you even need to sweep under the carpet what you don't actually look for

As it stands, the cat is out of the bag with cycling, and doping has cost the sport major sponsorship already. Your knee jerk reaction fails to take in the differing contexts
 
Jul 1, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
Yeah it is catching doping cheats!!! It caught Armstrong didn't it? Oh wait no it didn't.

It caught guys from the grupetto who podiumed GTs, didn't it? Oh wait it didn't!

It caught a 42 year old who won a GT. didn't it? Oh wait it didn't!

Yeah it is working real well!
So how does Menchov get sanctioned without it?

As I clearly said, and you're obviously aware, it's not a perfect system. But as a tool to combat doping, it's a bloody good one and it will catch dopers who would otherwise have gotten away with it
 
Sep 29, 2012
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BradCantona said:
So how does Menchov get sanctioned without it?

As I clearly said, and you're obviously aware, it's not a perfect system. But as a tool to combat doping, it's a bloody good one and it will catch dopers who would otherwise have gotten away with it
Notice how they went all the way back to 2009? and banned all results to 2013?

Are you telling me they weren't sure, with one of the more winningest riders, in 2009, that there was something wrong with his passport? That it honestly took another 4 years before they worked out something was sus?

With all the blood tests and attention a GC contender gets, they took 4+ years to work out something was dodgy, imagine how simple for a dom, finishing 30+ minutes down each stage to dope and not get sprung.
 
Jul 1, 2013
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Dear Wiggo said:
Notice how they went all the way back to 2009? and banned all results to 2013?

Are you telling me they weren't sure, with one of the more winningest riders, in 2009, that there was something wrong with his passport? That it honestly took another 4 years before they worked out something was sus?

With all the blood tests and attention a GC contender gets, they took 4+ years to work out something was dodgy, imagine how simple for a dom, finishing 30+ minutes down each stage to dope and not get sprung.
I can't comment on his blood profile because I don't know what it contains, maybe it genuinely took some time - perhaps he was a proficient micro doper who got sloppy, who knows? What we can agree is that the length of time between suspicious profile and ultimate sanction is far too long, so that does need improving

Still, my point stands. Has Menchov been sanctioned? Yes. Would he have been without the blood passport system? No
 
Sep 29, 2012
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BradCantona said:
I can't comment on his blood profile because I don't know what it contains, maybe it genuinely took some time - perhaps he was a proficient micro doper who got sloppy, who knows? What we can agree is that the length of time between suspicious profile and ultimate sanction is far too long, so that does need improving

Still, my point stands. Has Menchov been sanctioned? Yes. Would he have been without the blood passport system? No
And my point is: it's not the wonderful anti-doping panacea that it's being made out to be.

JTL was pinged inside 12 months - a nobody - and still waiting to find out wtf is going on.
 
Jul 18, 2013
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Dear Wiggo said:
And my point is: it's not the wonderful anti-doping panacea that it's being made out to be.
Yep. It's hardly caught anyone, and not the aliens: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_passport#Cyclists_sanctioned_on_the_basis_of_their_biological_passport

Note what the UCI said at the time of its introduction, and how this has degraded since:
"The provision of accurate and timely whereabouts information is critical to the success of this program. High quality, no-advance-notice testing can only occur when we know where to find the rider. "

Hmm...no testing between 9pm and 6am; lax regulation of whereabouts; testers waltzing into a hotel virtually blowing a foghorn; couldn't be bothered going to Tenerife; etc.

And how they talked it up:
One thing is certain - this new approach will enable the detection of riders who use blood doping methods or endogenous steroids such as testosterone. Once a rider is included in the biological passport program, it will become impossible for him to escape detection if he uses blood or steroid manipulations to enhance performance.

We are closing the gap on cheaters. Those who dope will be caught.


Err, yeah - right.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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Hm. Schleck, Contador, Froome all crash out early in Cookson's first TDF. How convenient for Cookson (any of those guys on the podium would have generated talk that he is no different than McQuaid).

I wonder whether any of the "accidents" were on purpose ?

(Ya, I know, broken tibia is pretty far to go to "fake" a crash). Still...
 
May 26, 2010
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So Cookson admis to not making changes in transparency and is happy with old methods

"I understand the implications of that but first of all it was reported, it was on the website, it was not hidden at all, that's what we do normally. It might have been better if we'd made a more positive announcement about it but that's not what we've done at any time in the past."
SSDD

"I think we can do a better job. I think we can update that schedule more effectively but there have been seventy-odd cases since I became UCI president and took over and I don’t think you guys are interested in everyone but I do accept that you are interested in some more than others. We probably have to look at the way we present information to the public. If there is a case that is of public interest, I think we have to announce it in a proactive way rather than in a reactive way as we've done in the past."
Surely every case is in the public interest. Why not have a dedicated page on UCI website for AAFs? I tell you why, because Cookson aint interested in the doping problem and trying to find a solution to it.

more of the SSDD here

"The important thing is that we continue to follow the rules and correct procedures and that's what we will continue to do."
Follow the UCI rules which means no change :rolleyes:

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
 
Benotti69 said:
So Cookson admis to not making changes in transparency and is happy with old methods



SSDD



Surely every case is in the public interest. Why not have a dedicated page on UCI website for AAFs? I tell you why, because Cookson aint interested in the doping problem and trying to find a solution to it.

more of the SSDD here



Follow the UCI rules which means no change :rolleyes:

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
And still no explanation to how they determined the results stripping. That's still a mystery. How can one understand the process and determination if there's no explanation?
 
Benotti69 said:
So Cookson admis to not making changes in transparency and is happy with old methods



SSDD



Surely every case is in the public interest. Why not have a dedicated page on UCI website for AAFs? I tell you why, because Cookson aint interested in the doping problem and trying to find a solution to it.

more of the SSDD here



Follow the UCI rules which means no change :rolleyes:

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
There is a page in the website though, which Libertine Seguros found.
 
Dazed and Confused said:
I think he means a nice big graphical link right on the front page.

DOPERS

but I could be wrong.

And after each dopers name, a handy colour scale from green to red for the level & expertise of the AAF, with green being an IQ test failure, & Red a full on alien :D
 
May 19, 2010
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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cookson-hits-back-over-handling-of-menchov-doping-case

"I understand the implications of that but first of all it was reported, it was on the website, it was not hidden at all, that's what we do normally. It might have been better if we'd made a more positive announcement about it but that's not what we've done at any time in the past. The only tine we've commented on doping cases that have been completed or in progress, is when a rider or his team, national Federation or others have commented. We've confirmed or not as the case maybe. That's what we do, that's why we do it. I think it's important that cases have to follow our rules, WADA rules and that's happened here."
What Cookson here says seems to be different from what UCI spokesman Louis Chenaille said a couple of days ago:

Speaking to the Associated Press about the curious case, however, UCI spokesman Louis Chenaille said that cycling’s governing body has “a new way of communicating” on doping violations.

According to AP, the UCI will – with the apparent exception of “some” high-profile cases – no longer issue press releases to announce positive tests and bans. The information will instead be posted to its website, without fanfare, as happened in the Menchov case.
And when Astarloa was suspended Cyclingnews reported that UCI announced it:

The UCI has announced that the Spanish Cycling Federation’s Disciplinary Commission has handed down a two-year suspension and a €35,000 fine to Igor Astarloa.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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https://nz.sports.yahoo.com/news/article/-/24468327/uci-boss-cookson-comes-under-fire-amid-more-wrangling/

Dutchman Peter Zevenbergen, who brought up claims against Russian Igor Makarov, one of the biggest supporters of Cookson in his election campaign, was asked to leave his job, he claims.

"It is quite simple: the new management committee did not accept my criticism," Zevenbergen told Reuters on Tuesday.

Article 14 of the Code of Ethics of the UCI state that the members of the Ethics Commission "shall be irremovable", unless they die or resign.

"I think those who were in the congress meeting last year would have been disappointed with the performance of the Ethics Committee as it was represented, Cookson told reporters on Tuesday.

"I think that it was quite clear that we had to change. We have got a new ethics commission now, all the members of the commission have been renewed. People we have are of the highest quality."

Zevenbergen said that he received a visit from Martin Gibbs, the UCI director general, in late December, 2013, as the Ethics Commission was investigating claims that Russian federation president Makarov had promised one million euros ($1.36 million)to the Union Europenne de Cyclisme (UEC) in exchange for a Cookson vote.

"Martin Gibbs came to Amsterdam to discuss this with me on the 27th of December. I would not say he asked me to resign, there was some pressure, he said he did not want to continue with me.

"He said if I stayed, it (the Ethics Commission president job) would be an empty function.

"As a consequence Peter Barth from Germany resigned from the commission."

Sources told Reuters that Barth, who left his job in April, felt the independence of the Ethics Commission could not be guaranteed anymore.
New UCI era. I suppose we must give him some more time?
 
del1962 said:
There is a page in the website though, which Libertine Seguros found.
Well, that's a bit disingenuous. They bury official sanctions in the document and apparently no timeliness *at all* in updating said document.

I find it interesting Cookson knows with some confidence the number of AAF's. (70 something) This suggests practically nothing has changed in regards to managing anti-doping controversy.

If the federation had any interest at all in protecting the integrity of the sport, anti-doping would not be handled in this manner.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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the sceptic said:
So who was Martin Gibbs before he became the UCI's chief of staff?

Oh look, it's the policy director of British Cycling...

nepo what?

British Cycling's policy director Martin Gibbs, an influential figure in the federation's increasingly vocal road safety campaigning, is leaving to become chief of staff to Brian Cookson, the new UCI President.

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/news/article/british-cyclings-policy-director-joins-uci-38593/
 
Jul 21, 2012
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DirtyWorks said:
Interesting to see how much power Makarov wields and how he does it. Also interesting to see an ethics panel believing they do something.

Buying an election is the same old UCI.
I wonder who leaked the Froome TUE and if anyone has resigned from the UCI lately..
 

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