Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid

[Bronstein]

Re:

He's under investigation Bronstein. Let's not jump the gun before everything is examined properly by legal people. Why is Kreuziger still racing? Why is Vino still in a job? Why is Rojas still riding? Why are passport readings flatter than they used to be? Why is Ferrari still involved? Why hasn't every single win been deleted from the record books from about 1990 onwards? Why are we judging Cookson right at the start of his tenure when he has to get processes into place for them to be effective?

The UCI passed off the investigation to the CIRC:

'“Mr. Rasmussen testified that in either 2004 or 2005, Dr. Leinders told him that
Mario Zorzoli recommended that Leinders give Rabobank riders DHEA because "all the
other teams are doing it as well.”” CIRC has investigated this statement regarding Mario
Zorzoli (which amounts to an ADRV being committed by a UCI staff member), and at the
time of completing its Report has been unable to confirm any allegation regarding his
supposed advice about taking a prohibited substance. The CIRC considers it
unacceptable and a severe breach of proper procedures that such serious accusations,
based on double hearsay, were made public without the individual first being consulted
and the allegations being fully investigated. This is all the more disturbing since this
accusation was completely immaterial to the case investigated. In addition, CIRC notes
that several interviewees expressed their high regard for Mario Zorzoli, both for his
scientific expertise and his honesty.'

(page 122 of the CIRC report)

Rasmussen made the allegations against Zorzoli in 2013, yet Zorzoli was still working at the UCI in 2015. Even though Zorzoli was and possibly still is a doping enabler, Cookson ignored the Rasmussen allegations for more than a year. When Zorzoli is finally 'investigated' by the CIRC, we are left with the laughable statements above, where Zorzoli is portrayed as some kind of honest victim. If Cookson was genuinely interested in reforming the UCI, he would have removed Zorzoli shortly after he was elected.

 

[sniper]

joelsim,
cookson got rid of several others that were inherited but kept zorzoli.
we've had this discussion already, which is why i asked you to read the thread first, which apparently you still haven't.
or you have and decided to come in for a troll.

edit: good post Bronstein. Spot on.
Goodness me, I hadn't seen that CIRC snippet about Zorzoli yet.
Wow, corruption runs deep.

 

[Joelsim]

Well hi too. No I haven't read all 72 pages and I'm not trolling. I simply say that Cookson has commissioned this report and so don't judge him until he acts/doesn't act on it.

He has several choices.

1) Fire off the hip
2) Put the rules in place and act
3) Put the rules in places and not act
4) Not act
5) Be Verbruggen

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Well hi too. No I haven't read all 72 pages and I'm not trolling. I simply say that Cookson has commissioned this report and so don't judge him until he acts/doesn't act on it.

He has not acted.

He made plenty of promises in his election manifesto. To date he has done nothing to improve testing or the fight against doping. He has had more than a year.

 

[Joelsim]

Re: Re:

Well hi too. No I haven't read all 72 pages and I'm not trolling. I simply say that Cookson has commissioned this report and so don't judge him until he acts/doesn't act on it.

He has not acted.

He made plenty of promises in his election manifesto. To date he has done nothing to improve testing or the fight against doping. He has had more than a year.

I don't agree. He is trying to do things properly. He now has the report to allow him to start with a clean slate...not under my watch...and he has been improving the legislature and the relationships with the people who he will need.

 

[sniper]

Re:

When an ostrich is afraid, it will bury its head in the ground, assuming that because it cannot see, it cannot be seen. Interesting way to avoid the problem.

read more:
http://drpaulose.com/spirituality/ostrich-mentality

 

[Joelsim]

You are unbelievable, truly unbelievable. Give the bloke a chance to do things the right way, properly, and then let's see those things stick. And let's not allow the Katusha thing to happen, or more Kreuziger-type things, or people to get away with eating Chinese or ridiculous excuses like Impey's to happen.

If that doesn't happen by all means call him and me an ostrich.

 

[Joelsim]

And I may add, don't allow knee-jerk reactions to completely hammer the chances of sponsors coming on board.

 

[neineinei]

Re:

If I'm not mistaken he has been taken off anti-doping

Has he been taken off TUE granting?

 

[Joelsim]

Re: Re:

If I'm not mistaken he has been taken off anti-doping

Has he been taken off TUE granting?

No idea mate, but let's look at the positives so far. He's not a magician.

There are far more important things than TUEs in the grand scheme of things, micro-dosing overnight with a 'high octane' to name but one. Out of competition testing for two. Co-ordinating the passport and the spot testing for three. Getting back in with WADA etc for four. Sorting out the bad eggs for five. Increasing penalties for six. Sorting the National Federations for seven. Etc.

 

[Parker]

Re:

You are unbelievable, truly unbelievable. Give the bloke a chance to do things the right way, properly, and then let's see those things stick. And let's not allow the Katusha thing to happen, or more Kreuziger-type things, or people to get away with eating Chinese or ridiculous excuses like Impey's to happen.

If that doesn't happen by all means call him and me an ostrich.

Joel. A friendly word from elsewhere. I know that you have a pretty cynical opinion of cycling. But it's not really entrenched, more a fashionable affectation.

If you come over here you are in fully radicalised extremist territory. If you want to fit in with the 'Clinic 12' then you can't show that sort of weakness. Give someone a chance? - that's wishy washy liberal nonsense.

 

[Joelsim]

Re: Re:

You are unbelievable, truly unbelievable. Give the bloke a chance to do things the right way, properly, and then let's see those things stick. And let's not allow the Katusha thing to happen, or more Kreuziger-type things, or people to get away with eating Chinese or ridiculous excuses like Impey's to happen.

If that doesn't happen by all means call him and me an ostrich.

Joel. A friendly word from elsewhere. I know that you have a pretty cynical opinion of cycling. But it's not really entrenched, more a fashionable affectation.

If you come over here you are in fully radicalised extremist territory. If you want to fit in with the 'Clinic 12' then you can't show that sort of weakness. Give someone a chance? - that's wishy washy liberal nonsense.

OK, hint taken. Let's burn the witch!

 

[Benotti69]

The CIRC focused on special treatment for LA, and literally days after Cookson is granting special treatment to Wiggins.

Cookson is able to ignore UCI rules just as well as his predecessors.

And yet posters think Cookson needs more time! sure..............................

 

[Joelsim]

Guys, until this evening I thought I was an ardent anti-doper. Now I realise that in order to be one of you I have to remove all reason and rationality from my thoughts. Tell you what, let's forget about doing things properly and get absolutely nowhere, with anything.

 

[D-Queued]

Re:

Guys, until this evening I thought I was an ardent anti-doper. Now I realise that in order to be one of you I have to remove all reason and rationality from my thoughts. Tell you what, let's forget about doing things properly and get absolutely nowhere, with anything.

At least you have to earn it here now.

Days gone past, you could just show up so long as you were working for Public Strategies, make one pretend post that somehow included the phrase "I am not a Lance fan", claim that Tyler/Floyd/Lance were getting all the blame, scream human rights, and at least half of the folks would adopt you.

It would take at least the third post, where you cited how many non-positive tests Lance had, before people would really have figured you out.

But, if it is any consolation, I generally agree with what you are saying about Cookson.

It is still too early to judge.

Unlike McQuaid, we couldn't judge Cookson aptly before he showed up.

Zorzoli is one very curious situation. He could still turn out to be a hero or a demon. And, none of that ultimately will have bearing on Cookson. Not even if Zorzoli is the wisest doping facilitator out there.

Dave.

 

[Bronstein]

Re: Re:

Zorzoli is one very curious situation. He could still turn out to be a hero or a demon.

How could Zorzoli be a hero given the following:

Doctor Leinders and doctor Mario Zorzoli, chief of the UCI's medical department, had a meeting and talked about the situation. When it had finished, I was allowed to continue. No reason to be worried. Afterwards, doctor Leinders told me what had happened. He used a Dutch phrase "We have butter on our heads." Rabobank had a good relationship with the UCI.

(http://cyclingquotes.net/news/rasmussen_accuses_uci_of_cover-up/?urlPath=news/rasmussen_accuses_uci_of_cover-up/?acceptCookie=1)

In the spring of 2010, some riders of a Pro-Tour team that were training at altitude (on Teide, Tenerife) were subjected to the normal ABP samples. One they received the results of the analysis, considering them unreliable (the values were too high), all it took was a phone call from the team doctor to his friend Dr. Zorzoli, in charge of UCI's doping department, in order to get the results of those tests cleared from the profiles, as deemed inconvenient for the Team and for the sake of the Biological Passport system, which tends not to consider the effects of altitude.

(http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=article&id=115)

Zorzoli confirmed that when a blood test reflected a suspicious result, UCI would contact a Rabobank team doctor, either Dr Leinders or another doctor, to discuss the potential cause of the result.

Zorzoli told Teitler that UCI kept in touch with team doctors so that “Riders and staff would have the idea that the UCI was basically on top of them and they had to be careful with what they would do in terms of doping,”

(http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/AAA_decision_Leinders_December_2014.pdf)

 

[sniper]

great stuff, Bronstein.
No wonder the riders and team managers hold Zorzoli in high esteem...

No need to beat around the bush.
Cookson knew about the accusations but kept Zorzoli in charge of antidoping. Didn´t investigate him, nothing.
Only when the USADA file on Leinders repeated and formalized the accusations, Cookson was suddenly forced to do something, or more precisely: to pretend to be doing something.
It´s clear that without USADA´s efforts Cookson would´ve done zilk.
It´s dodgy as ***, especially in light of Zorzoli´s preferential treatment of Froome and Cookson´s all too obvious conflicts of interest wrt Sky.

My guess is that Zorzoli will continue to be in charge of antidoping for years to come.

 

[del1962]

Re:

The CIRC focused on special treatment for LA, and literally days after Cookson is granting special treatment to Wiggins.

Cookson is able to ignore UCI rules just as well as his predecessors.

And yet posters think Cookson needs more time! sure..............................

Only the more than my jobs worth parking attendent mentality will moan about Wiggo's Tour of Yorkshire participation, of cousre these people where all moaning about AN Posts attendance of the TOB last year.

 

[Benotti69]

But when UCI ignores its own rules, hey that's ok. I mean they are not really rules, more guidelines till UCI actually remembers they are rules and implements them.

I mean some guys are getting the kecks in a twists because no one can prove Sky have broken any rules and then when rules get broken they have a go and insult posters. Which ever way the wind is blowing as long as it is a tailwind............

 

[doperhopper]

Re:

It´s dodgy as ****, especially in light of Zorzoli´s preferential treatment of Froome and Cookson´s all too obvious conflicts of interest wrt Sky.

My guess is that Zorzoli will continue to be in charge of antidoping for years to come.

so, game over, the publicity stunt "cycling at the forefront of antidoping" successfully deployed, the "New clean era" of UCI iron fist rule can go on, everyone is in principle guilty and they can freely pick up winner or bust any small fish or occasional dissenter (the same way Putin deployed "the law" on russian oligarchs, well, only those disobeying)

 

[del1962]

Re:

But when UCI ignores its own rules, hey that's ok. I mean they are not really rules, more guidelines till UCI actually remembers they are rules and implements them.

I mean some guys are getting the kecks in a twists because no one can prove Sky have broken any rules and then when rules get broken they have a go and insult posters. Which ever way the wind is blowing as long as it is a tailwind............

The rule is to stop riders switching from one WT to another mid season, not to stop a pre planned drop to continental level like in this case, but because its Wiggo involved the over officious traffic wardens on Twitter want to have a good old moan about it, funny that they never moaned about AN Post at the TOB.

 

[hrotha]

That's not the point. The bending of the BP tests rule to allow Armstrong to race the the Tour Down Under likely didn't have any practical impact on how thorough his profile was before that race, but that's not here or there: rules were willingly bent in favour of one particular rider who was deemed "important". It's the UCI putting their marketing interests before their role as policemen of the sport again. Exactly the same.

 

[del1962]

Nah one is about Anti Doping Policy the other is about rider transfers and a rule to stop tranfers between WT teams not dropping down a couple of levels, no real comparison

 

[hrotha]

Well if you're going to put it like that I guess they're also completely different and not comparable because one involved a cancer guy in 2009 while the other involves a mod in 2015 so it's all like apples and oranges.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Nah one is about Anti Doping Policy the other is about rider transfers and a rule to stop tranfers between WT teams not dropping down a couple of levels, no real comparison

hrotha just spelled it out pretty clearly. In both cases

rules were willingly bent in favour of one particular rider who was deemed "important".

some are more equal than others.