Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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Where do you think so-called will power comes from? You think it's created spontaneously in someone's head? Effects have causes. Sometimes people make the effort because they've educated themselves on how important it is to lose weight. The willingness to listen and change doesn't come out of thin air, it's a product of someone's environment, physiology and biochemistry. Same with the effort made to lose weight.

Newsflash. Free will, in the traditional sense of a force independent of mind and body, doesn't exist. It's not just incompatible with the scientific view of cause and effect. It's incoherent. We behave the way we do for reasons. Reasons are causes. We aren't some self-caused gods.
Your philosophy on this is weird and it sounds like you're giving overweight & unhealthy people an excuse not to eat better and excercise. I've been around many gyms for over 40 yrs now and have met a lot of people. I've seen so many overweight people over the years commit to a more healthy lifestyle losing a lot of weight through diet & excercise. These are both young & old individuals. And with many it isn't all rainbows & marshmallows in their personal lives; divorces, child issues, family deaths, work stress, financial issues, psychological issues, alcohol & drug problems. But yet they have found the time to commit to a healthier lifestyle and not make excuses. When you put your mind to something you can do it.

And it doesn't have to be a gym or fitness center either. Research has shown that just 30 mins of brisk walking every day can, in additional to losing weight, significantly reduce the risk of heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc. And eating healthy isn't expensive. Most Walmarts these days carry organic produce, eggs, dairy, etc., that is very reasonably priced. I've known mininmum-wage slave workers who could barely afford a gym membership able to eat very healthy through what Walmart has to offer.

As I said, most of these obese people simply don't care. What many people don't get is that obesity is a preventable condition. They could, if they really wanted to, dump the toxic crap food and eat healthy, and at least start moving more and getting the weight down (there's tons of websites to assist obese people in eating healthy and starting an excercise program plus there are weight loss experts that deal exclusively with overweight people). Instead, they blame their obesity on personal problems & society and so forth expecting people to feel sorry for them (there's even reality TV shows about them!) And now with Covid, a lot of them are, and have been, overwhelming the hospitals causing panic with government officials which causes them to implement these insidious lockdowns and restrictions (see El Paso's recent lockdown from overcrowded hospitals). There has to be some personal responsibility that these people need to be accountable for - though many Liberals don't seem to see it that way.

How about Yoan Moncada? Think his symptoms are like those of the flu? How about Eduardo Rodriguez?
Yeah...what about Moncada? He says the only symptoms he had was anosmia & ageusia and that his performance has been going down over the months upon returning to play. But...he also has been dealing with a chronic lower leg injury that could as well been the reason for his poor play. So, maybe he's trying to chalk off his poor performance to "Covid" instead of the leg issue.

Rodriguez has confirmed myocarditis from his Covid infection. But how many does that make from MLB? Just this one case?

And previous cases of myocarditis with athletes has been caused from influenza and other viral & bacterial infections...nothing new there.

"Myocarditis in Athletes:"


"Acute myocarditis is a well-known complication of influenza infection."

 
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I think what Nomad is saying holds water..I wished his views could be my reality...but..obesity,poor nutrition and zero exercise is the norm, not the exception.
So like fire danger,too late to discuss storing mass quantities of gas and chemicals in your garage when 4 fire trucks are at your house.
Obesity was an emergency before Covid..I will let someone else categorize what you call an emergency one up't from a pandemic.
Same w health care system..health care data reporting, sure the US knew that we had a problem,but it's all a day late and a dollar short once a pandemic sweeps over the country.
Obviously no country was ready..equally as obvious nobody is the same so what works in Singapore,doesn't work in Strasburg..and may not apply in Cincinnati..
But we can all learn from each other,everyone can be a data point for one another..
So should the US slim down? Stop serving mega calorie food as the norm,instead of the exception? Yes..Will a deadly pandemic change our ways?
Absolutely not.
So broad pandemic health solutions in the US cannot include common sense or heavy loads of shame..it doesn't work..
Unfortunately,Americans are looking for a pill. An injection that will mitigate bad..it doesn't exist..
Not yet.
We are dying at our own hands..not anything China..the US has a preexisting condition that nobody wants to talk about..gut circumference..gig workers without benefits, millions of service workers who don't have anything,legal documents,or rights or health care..the pandemic has exposed the fragile chaos..need fundamental change..maybe no help for this pandemic,but the next one,whatever form it takes
 
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Chris Gadsden

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I think what Nomad is saying holds water..I wished his views could be my reality...but..obesity,poor nutrition and zero exercise is the norm, not the exception.
So like fire danger,too late to discuss storing mass quantities of gas and chemicals in your garage when 4 fire trucks are at your house.
Obesity was an emergency before Covid..I will let someone else categorize what you call an emergency one up't from a pandemic.
Same w health care system..health care data reporting, sure the US knew that we had a problem,but it's all a day late and a dollar short once a pandemic sweeps over the country.
Obviously no country was ready..equally as obvious nobody is the same so what works in Singapore,doesn't work in Strasburg..and may not apply in Cincinnati..
But we can all learn from each other,everyone can be a data point for one another..
So should the US slim down? Stop serving mega calorie food as the norm,instead of the exception? Yes..Will a deadly pandemic change our ways?
Absolutely not.
So broad pandemic health solutions in the US cannot include common sense or heavy loads of shame..it doesn't work..
Unfortunately,Americans are looking for a pill. An injection that will mitigate bad..it doesn't exist..
Not yet.
We are dying at our own hands..not anything China..the US has a preexisting condition that nobody wants to talk about..gut circumference..gig workers without benefits, millions of service workers who don't have anything,legal documents,or rights or health care..the pandemic has exposed the fragile chaos..need fundamental change..maybe no help for this pandemic,but the next one,whatever form it takes
Plandemic is now over. It’s all good.

In a few short months everything will be just fine. Trust me.
 
Reactions: Cookster15
Your philosophy on this is weird and it sounds like you're giving overweight & unhealthy people an excuse not to eat better and excercise. I've been around many gyms for over 40 yrs now and have met a lot of people. I've seen so many overweight people over the years commit to a more healthy lifestyle losing a lot of weight through diet & excercise. These are both young & old individuals. And with many it isn't all rainbows & marshmallows in their personal lives; divorces, child issues, family deaths, work stress, financial issues, psychological issues, alcohol & drug problems. But yet they have found the time to commit to a healthier lifestyle and not make excuses. When you put your mind to something you can do it.
I don't disagree with this, many people do successfully struggle with obesity, but some people simply can't "put their mind" to it. There are a lot of social forces working in the other direction. Junk food is cheap and readily available, and is glorified by advertising, When some communities have attempted to limit junk food purchases, there is a backlash that freedoms are being infringed on. Most jobs are sedentary, unlike the days when most people worked on farms.

Also, and I don't think this gets emphasized enough, a great deal of eating and over-eating results from people simply being bored. They don't have anything better to do, and the more inactive/bored you are, the more you can feel your hunger. There's nothing else going on to compete with it. In my experience, when you have a really important goal, something that takes all or most of your time and energy, you will stop eating in excess, at least stop eating at times when there's no need to. Most people in first world countries--certainly obese people--are in no danger of starving, are in fact not really hungry most of the time. When they occupy their time with something else, the desire to eat is reduced.
 
I wonder how much additional infections will be caused by the election. I'm seeing people in counting centres is states with high infection rates, sitting indoors for hours with quite many people and sometimes shabby face coverings. Doesn't look like a good environment to be in. I don't know why you don't vote on computers (in voting centres)? I've been doing that here since I'm eligible to vote (20 years). No scanning required, no manual work, no errors, immediate results.
 
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I wonder how much additional infections will be caused by the election. I'm seeing people in counting centres is states with high infection rates, sitting indoors for hours with quite many people and sometimes shabby face coverings. Doesn't look like a good environment to be in. I don't know why you don't vote on computers (in voting centres)? I've been doing that here since I'm eligible to vote (20 years). No scanning required, no manual work, no errors, immediate results.
My voting center had a lot of fiberglass FWIW. Like usual, most of the people who worked the center, which was in a High School gymnasium, were in the older age brackets. I believe using a computer interface is available at my precinct, but I only saw people take the paper route. I am sure someone will try to model the effect of voting transmission, but as with other attempts, it will be controversial.
 
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Nomad's post reminds me that I used to work with two older women, who both had a weight problem. One of the women, highly educated, Ph.D, worked hard to control her weight. She's always going to be heavy, but she took some weight off, and watched her diet. She understands the health problems very clearly, and takes dieting very seriously, though AFAIK, she doesn't exercise much.

The other woman, less educated, though successful in a business, strongly resisted any suggestions to change her eating habits. She was the kind of person who would walk into a room after a seminar or lab meeting was over and gobble up all the leftover food. Her attitude was, I love to eat, and if I can't, life isn't worth living.

I'm not sure what you say to the latter kind of person. You can argue that when you lose weight, you not only look better, but feel better, with more energy. For many, I assume Nomad is one, this kind of reward overcomes the hardship of watching what you eat, exercising, and so on. I think that's why so many people can initially lose weight. But the key word there is initially. The great majority, of course, eventually gain most if not all of the weight back. At some point, the novelty of looking and feeling better wears off, and you're left with the daily battle to fight the desire to eat.
 
The latest numbers out of Wisconsin continue to rise. They are now seeing about 6k cases a day, signifying uncontrolled community spread. People who espouse herd immunity have been talking about protecting the vulnerable and I have some anecdotal evidence about that. There is a assisted living center in Rural Wisconsin, about 30 min outside of Madison. They are well run and were quick to lockdown in April and May. PPE has been mandated for the workers and they are tested regularly. The residents now eat all meals in their rooms. Visitation is still not permitted within the building. Visits must happen in outside areas. Despite all this, they now have 5 cases of COVID. The source was an infected worker. This was the second worker to be infected. The first did not transmit it to the residents.
  1. If you have uncontrolled community spread, keeping it out of these places is near impossible.
  2. Protecting the vulnerable is costly in ways that people aren't willing to discuss. Asking that to be the status quo for the vulnerable indefinitely is not humane IMO.
 
Nomad's post reminds me that I used to work with two older women, who both had a weight problem. One of the women, highly educated, Ph.D, worked hard to control her weight. She's always going to be heavy, but she took some weight off, and watched her diet. She understands the health problems very clearly, and takes dieting very seriously, though AFAIK, she doesn't exercise much.

The other woman, less educated, though successful in a business, strongly resisted any suggestions to change her eating habits. She was the kind of person who would walk into a room after a seminar or lab meeting was over and gobble up all the leftover food. Her attitude was, I love to eat, and if I can't, life isn't worth living.

I'm not sure what you say to the latter kind of person. You can argue that when you lose weight, you not only look better, but feel better, with more energy. For many, I assume Nomad is one, this kind of reward overcomes the hardship of watching what you eat, exercising, and so on. I think that's why so many people can initially lose weight. But the key word there is initially. The great majority, of course, eventually gain most if not all of the weight back. At some point, the novelty of looking and feeling better wears off, and you're left with the daily battle to fight the desire to eat.
Yes...when you lose weight by eating healthy & excercising you not only look better, feel better, more energy, etc.,but have a healthier immune system which is critical in this or any pandemic.

Sadly, a large percentage of hospitalizations for Covid are the clinically obese. And a lot of these people have pre-existing conditions as a direct result of their obesity requiring pharmaceutical intervention which further exacerbates their risk of complications and death.

"Covid-19: Hospitalizations significantly higher for those overweight:"

 
On the vaccine front:

"Will Covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren't designed to tell us."


"None of the trials currently under way are designed to detect a reduction in any serious outcome such as hospital admissions, use of intensive care, or deaths. Nor are the vaccines being studied to determine whether they can interrupt transmission of the virus."

"In all the ongoing phase III trials for which details have been released, laboratory confirmed infections even with only mild symptoms qualify as meeting the primary endpoint definition.
9101112 In Pfizer and Moderna’s trials, for example, people with only a cough and positive laboratory test would bring those trials one event closer to their completion. (If AstraZeneca’s ongoing UK trial is designed similarly to its “paused” US trial for which the company has released details, a cough and fever with positive PCR test would suffice.)"
 
The world has bet the farm on vaccines as the solution to the pandemic, but the trials are not focused on answering the questions many might assume they are.
1) Betting the farm was a choice that we did not have to make. 2) Many people don't understand how clinical trials work.

If you want to use hospitalizations or death as the main endpoint for approving a vaccine, you will need to have a vaccine trial that enrolls hundreds of thousands more people. The 'serious outcomes' are by their very nature rare events. Already most of the people in the vaccine trials will never be exposed to the virus. That is why therapies can use death as an endpoint, because all of their enrollees are already infected and likely in high risk of worse outcomes. The number of vaccine trial participants needing hospitalization is another subgroup within the small group of those who do get infected. And those who die is yet another sliver of the hospital group. I am just throwing these numbers out as an example, but in the 30,000 person Moderna study it is possible 1 person would die who got the placebo and 0 person who got the vaccine. Trying running the stats on that data set, which is what the guy is basically saying below. It is likely that no one dies from either group IMO. All the trials are struggling to hit their 'event' endpoints as is.
But Tal Zaks, chief medical officer at Moderna, told The BMJ that the company’s trial lacks adequate statistical power to assess those outcomes.
As I have mentioned before, there is a legitimate discussion to be had about whether the vaccine should reduce transmission. But, the sticking point is that type of study design would require frequent and regular swabbing of each and every one of the enrollees. It is a challenging study to enroll 30,000 people for and then execute for an indefinite period of time. Again, what the guy is directly telling us.
“Our trial will not demonstrate prevention of transmission,” Zaks said, “because in order to do that you have to swab people twice a week for very long periods, and that becomes operationally untenable.”
Overall, that is a good article to read fully.
 
Nomad's post reminds me that I used to work with two older women, who both had a weight problem. One of the women, highly educated, Ph.D, worked hard to control her weight. She's always going to be heavy, but she took some weight off, and watched her diet. She understands the health problems very clearly, and takes dieting very seriously, though AFAIK, she doesn't exercise much.

The other woman, less educated, though successful in a business, strongly resisted any suggestions to change her eating habits. She was the kind of person who would walk into a room after a seminar or lab meeting was over and gobble up all the leftover food. Her attitude was, I love to eat, and if I can't, life isn't worth living.

I'm not sure what you say to the latter kind of person. You can argue that when you lose weight, you not only look better, but feel better, with more energy. For many, I assume Nomad is one, this kind of reward overcomes the hardship of watching what you eat, exercising, and so on. I think that's why so many people can initially lose weight. But the key word there is initially. The great majority, of course, eventually gain most if not all of the weight back. At some point, the novelty of looking and feeling better wears off, and you're left with the daily battle to fight the desire to eat.
I'm more addicted to activity than an other thing. I truly live to ride my bike. When I can't , I enjoy hiking, jogging, lifting weights... I eat roughly 3,000-3,500 calories daily (more when I was younger). Maybe I'm 'lucky' to be who I am in that regard?
 
Plandemic is now over. It’s all good.

In a few short months everything will be just fine. Trust me.
this is the quirk about nationalism,about American exceptionalism..it can't make sense it's based on a bubble or a series of complicated bubbles that don't exist..and I will qualify that,the bubbles don't exist on this planet.

For the Presidential Pandemic Disappeared Theory to play out..the rest of the world..Boris Johnson,Germany,Italy and Spain,France,Mexico..they all need to be on the theatrics and pretend it's gone,it's over. But way more complicated coordination has to happen w the infected,sick and oops..the dead. The dead need to somehow be animated to go mass scale Weekend at Bernie's, but this time it's Weekend at Donalds.
No it doesn't work..we have been trying for 8 months to say that the pandemic will suddenly and magically disappear..and w elite optimism,you predict the border the virus will respect and give a time frame..
You can keep believing that there is a world wide conspiracy were a fake virus role play was pulled off, complete with dead bodies. And it was all done with laser like precision to damage Donald..
One thing about your lofty expectations that can come true..we could be on a track to be fine in a few months,God willing and a few electoral votes
And believe me,there is American exceptionalism it's just not based on admiration, currently on embarrassment and utter amazement at our exceptional response to Covid-19.
 
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238,000+ people and their families are not pretending. The U.S.government response is criminal.
And simple sentences like
What's on today's agenda? Fighting the virus
Getting people food
Sending relief money
Nah..I will play golf or tweet
 
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On the vaccine front:

"Will Covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren't designed to tell us."


"None of the trials currently under way are designed to detect a reduction in any serious outcome such as hospital admissions, use of intensive care, or deaths. Nor are the vaccines being studied to determine whether they can interrupt transmission of the virus."

"In all the ongoing phase III trials for which details have been released, laboratory confirmed infections even with only mild symptoms qualify as meeting the primary endpoint definition.
9101112 In Pfizer and Moderna’s trials, for example, people with only a cough and positive laboratory test would bring those trials one event closer to their completion. (If AstraZeneca’s ongoing UK trial is designed similarly to its “paused” US trial for which the company has released details, a cough and fever with positive PCR test would suffice.)"
So what's the point of the vaccine then? It doesn't sound like it's doing anything useful.
 
Just because the trials are not designed to detect whether the hospitalizations and deaths are decreased in people who receive the vaccines does not mean that an effective vaccine that prevents moderate illness will not help prevent serious outcomes too. It is just that we won't be able to determine that in these 30K person studies. The purpose of the COVID-19 vaccine is to limit the disease in the individuals that get infected by decreasing colonization of the lower airways. Hopefully turning people who would normally die into hospitalizations. Turning people who would normally be hospitalized into mild symptoms and turning people with mild symptoms into asymptomatic cases. Essentially, turning COVID into a seasonal common cold type CoV. It is highly debatable whether you can prevent colonization of the upper airways, which means it might not be possible for a vaccine to prevent transmission between people. But it might limit the severity of the infection enough that it quickly fades into anonymity.
 
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I think it's bad to watch the progression downward. Google search shows many articles published from months ago with polling data saying how many people would not get a vaccine if available..the numbers are steadily increasing..more and more Americans saying no,even if one is available.

Had a guy in El Cajon explain to me in detail about how Covid incentive payments are made.
He explained that it's all very simple, no matter what the cause of sickness or death is you write Covid-19 on hospital documents and the government gives you $35,000 bucks auto pay for every Covid case..he explained that he knows people who work at the hospital. "People" in the hospital are telling \ pressuring other " people " to write Covid regardless for cash..I wish I could have figured this all out.
His business is backflow plumbing, business is good and steady brisk pace throughout the pandemic,more proof of a overblown sickness hysteria.
I was getting an oil fill bolt and copper crush washer for a motorcycle,he was picking up a module for helmet inner communication for his Razor ATV..
So you never can tell where or when sound medical opinion will be dispensed..
And all this..inspired by a an "I voted" sticker I left on my jacket..
San Diego is currently at 7.4 cases per 100000 which is slightly more than the 7:100000 that the state government claims to tolerate. Could make the only outdoors service again normal..
We are forecast for Saturday and Sunday rain in lots of California..we will see how it shakes out.


That's from the same station
 
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Just because the trials are not designed to detect whether the hospitalizations and deaths are decreased in people who receive the vaccines does not mean that an effective vaccine that prevents moderate illness will not help prevent serious outcomes too. It is just that we won't be able to determine that in these 30K person studies. The purpose of the COVID-19 vaccine is to limit the disease in the individuals that get infected by decreasing colonization of the lower airways. Hopefully turning people who would normally die into hospitalizations. Turning people who would normally be hospitalized into mild symptoms and turning people with mild symptoms into asymptomatic cases. Essentially, turning COVID into a seasonal common cold type CoV. It is highly debatable whether you can prevent colonization of the upper airways, which means it might not be possible for a vaccine to prevent transmission between people. But it might limit the severity of the infection enough that it quickly fades into anonymity.
So it still sounds like it's not exactly useful to the vast majority of the population of the planet. As it appears currently the vast majority of people getting it have mild to no symptoms to being with. It's not exactly going to do them any good.
To add to this, if all the vaccine may to is keep you from getting moderate to severe symptoms, I personally don't see a reason to bother getting the vaccine as outside of chronic sinusitis (not officially diagnosed, but my doctors have said it's likely I have it) I rarely get more than mild cases of anything anyway. My husband doesn't want the vaccine due to fears of interactions with the RA medications he takes.
 

Chris Gadsden

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Chris don't know an easy and legal way to bet one another but if you have a simple solution for anonymous money transfer, I will bet $1,00000 usd that the Covid-19 virus is not gone in a couple(2) months.
I don’t bet or gamble.

We’ll see what happens. My assumption is the global spike/American spike will subside over the next several weeks. The press will suddenly shift from the 100% full-time negativity of all things COVID. You’ll see stories about how much better results of various therapies are becoming and the need to stabilize the economy and thus those suffering the mental distress from government action and the financial destruction that followed. The press in concert with their corporate partners will decide it’s time to get back to work and to school.

There will be less focus on the dead, or numbers of dead. All reporting will focus on all things positive. The new regime will review vaccine protocols and approve them. Gone will be the days of questioning the CDC, FDA, their motives and work products. Excess deaths will begin to follow expected numbers by early next year.

Go ahead... change my mind.
 

Chris Gadsden

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You really do think the US exists in a vacuum, huh.
Nope.

Here’s what I wrote:

We’ll see what happens. My assumption is the global spike/American spike will subside over the next several weeks. The press will suddenly shift from the 100% full-time negativity of all things COVID. You’ll see stories about how much better results of various therapies are becoming and the need to stabilize the economy and thus those suffering the mental distress from government action and the financial destruction that followed. The press in concert with their corporate partners will decide it’s time to get back to work and to school.
 
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Yes, and what you wrote implies that coverage in the US before now and its focus on the necessity of restrictions despite the damage to the economy was part of an anti-Trump agenda, instead of something that the media all over the world had in common.
 

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