Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[movingtarget]

‘Our hands are tied’: US coronavirus surge ravages small rural hospitals

The tragedies brought on by Covid-19 in small towns where everyone knows everyone are more intimate and heartbreaking

www.theguardian.com

 

[8472]

What I wrote was factually correct. Chinese government officials and state media have been pushing the 'covid came from elsewhere' narrative. The Wuhan biolab story was a fringe thing, and definitely not pushed by Western governments.

I was referring to the "a suggestion Covid-19 was brought into Wuhan by visiting American soldiers", how is that something that was pushed by Chinese government officials? Where are the links to support this?

On the contrary, theories that the virus escaped from a lab or even that it was bioengineered by Chinese researchers and accidentally released, have made their way from social media, into the mainstream press and the highest echelons of the US government. During a White House press briefing held on April 30th, President Trump was asked if he had seen evidence that would lead him to conclude with a “high degree of confidence that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the origin of this virus.” Trump confirmed that he had, adding: “The World Health Organization should be ashamed of themselves, because they’re like the public relations agency for China."
Coronavirus: Trump suspects Covid-19 came from China lab (cnbc.com)

On May 3rd, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was interviewed and asked if he had also seen this evidence and if he shared Trump’s confidence in it. “There’s enormous evidence,” Pompeo replied, “that that’s where this began.” He pointed to China’s “history of infecting the world” and “history of running substandard laboratories,” and even stated the virus had been bioengineered.
China's coronavirus response was a 'classic communist disinformation effort': Pompeo Video - ABC News (go.com)

When you have the highest echelons of the US government pushing this theory, how can you say this was "a fringe thing" and "definitely not pushed by Western governments"?

 

[Merckx index]

When you have the highest echelons of the US government pushing this theory, how can you say this was "a fringe thing" and "definitely not pushed by Western governments"?

LOL, are you serious? If you think top echelons of the US government, beginning with the President, don't push fringe stuff, conspiracy theories, you obviously aren't aware of what's going on, right now, post election.

Ignorant theories spouted by the President and a few top aides are not representative of the entire US government, and certainly aren't representative of other Western governments. The American scientific community, including Fauci, came out pretty strongly against the notion of a bioengineered virus, and the U.S. intelligence community followed suit:

On April 30, the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence declared, on behalf of the 17 different organizations that make up the U.S. intelligence community, that “the Covid-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified.”

A Timeline Of The COVID-19 Wuhan Lab Origin Theory

The theory that COVID-19 originated in a lab in Wuhan has emerged as a highly contentious claim since the outbreak began.

www.forbes.com

Trump has made it very clear he doesn't trust the intelligence agencies, as to him they're all part of the nefarious deep state, so it's no surprise that he would ignore or contradict what they say. There were some who suggested the virus could have escaped from a lab. While this seems highly unlikely, this is more difficult to rule out unequivocally, simply based on the sequence of the virus.

Meanwhile, more than 2800 deaths today, the highest single day total in the U.S. (or in any other country, AFAIK) since the pandemic began. More than 200,000 cases, and with reporting probably not complete, that, too, may be an all-time high.

 

[8472]

LOL, are you serious? If you think top echelons of the US government, beginning with the President, don't push fringe stuff, conspiracy theories, you obviously aren't aware of what's going on, right now, post election.

Ignorant theories spouted by the President and a few top aides are not representative of the entire US government, and certainly aren't representative of other Western governments. The American scientific community, including Fauci, came out pretty strongly against the notion of a bioengineered virus, and the U.S. intelligence community followed suit:

A Timeline Of The COVID-19 Wuhan Lab Origin Theory

The theory that COVID-19 originated in a lab in Wuhan has emerged as a highly contentious claim since the outbreak began.

www.forbes.com

Trump has made it very clear he doesn't trust the intelligence agencies, as to him they're all part of the nefarious deep state, so it's no surprise that he would ignore or contradict what they say. There were some who suggested the virus could have escaped from a lab. While this seems highly unlikely, this is more difficult to rule out unequivocally, simply based on the sequence of the virus.

LOL! So now the president of the US and his top aides aren't even considered official representatives of their country's stance? That's as obvious a pushing of the biolab theory from a government official as you can get. Nice try at deflecting blame. If the Chinese counterparts had pushed a similar theory: eg. created in Fort Detrick lab then intentionally released in Wuhan by US army participating in the Army games, then that's also acceptable and not representative of entire CCP? Double standards much?

 

[Unchained]

And there it is.

Trump Covid vaccine czar says U.S. should be able to immunize nearly a third of population by end of February

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/02/tru...y-third-of-population-by-end-of-february.html

Under control,15 cases ,everyone who wants a vaccine can get one,
Add this to the list of complete BS.. No company says that they have have 110 million doses.not at all..and current vaccine regiment calls for 2 doses ..220 million?
Are you high?
Nobody is saying 33% of any population..anywhere

 

[Unchained]

Trump can only pardon himself out of this

 

[Cookster15]

Regarding the threshold, it's not that the virus starts behaving differently, it's that a situation that seems "OK" can quickly get out of hand. For instance, in Belgium, 7-day average infections/day:

• 26 August: 438
• 26 September: 1600
• 26 October: 15662 (!)

(luckily: 26 November: 2395)

Wow. Yes, the 2nd wave in the Australian state of Victoria spread quickly out of hand. So somewhat similar to Belgium. Before then Victoria was recording zero new daily cases. We are all going to need to be vigilant until the vaccine is widely dispersed. Another 12 months at least I'd say.

 

[Jagartrott]

I was referring to the "a suggestion Covid-19 was brought into Wuhan by visiting American soldiers", how is that something that was pushed by Chinese government officials? Where are the links to support this?

I was not talking about that, so why are you replying to me about something I haven't said?

Regarding Trump:
"Western governments have pushed to use of bleach injections to combat covid-19"

Yeah, but no. Surely even you can see that what Chinese officials and their media mouthpieces have been doing, is different than the ravings of a 'stable genius'. This is not a coincidence, this is a strategy.

 

[Merckx index]

LOL! So now the president of the US and his top aides aren't even considered official representatives of their country's stance? That's as obvious a pushing of the biolab theory from a government official as you can get. Nice try at deflecting blame. If the Chinese counterparts had pushed a similar theory: eg. created in Fort Detrick lab then intentionally released in Wuhan by US army participating in the Army games, then that's also acceptable and not representative of entire CCP? Double standards much?

Boy, you are really hyper-sensitive to anything that might possibly be construed as anti-Chinese. You specifically said that if the idea was promoted by top officials of the U.S., then it couldn't be fringe, and had to be representative of Western governments. Both of these implications are false.

That was my point. I was not deflecting any blame from anyone. If you want to rant on about how everyone is persecuting the Chinese, I really don't care. But your statement of "Chinese counterparts" totally ignores the huge differences between the U.S. and China. Trump can make some claim about the virus, and anyone who follows the U.S. closely--and you can be very sure the Chinese do--will know that is Trump, and not necessarily official U.S. beliefs or policy. In contrast, if Xi makes a statement, everyone understands that this is official Chinese policy. If Xi actually said the virus was engineered in Ft. Detrick, then everyone in the Chinese intelligence community would echo that view, and so would every Chinese scientist, except those few brave enough to challenge him.

 

[movingtarget]

Trump can only pardon himself out of this

If that includes stepping down on mental health grounds then I'm for it.................

 

[8472]

I was not talking about that, so why are you replying to me about something I haven't said?

Regarding Trump:
"Western governments have pushed to use of bleach injections to combat covid-19"

Yeah, but no. Surely even you can see that what Chinese officials and their media mouthpieces have been doing, is different than the ravings of a 'stable genius'. This is not a coincidence, this is a strategy.

It was assumed since you were replying to a previous quote which said so.

This sounds similar to what I have heard from a Chinese source. Then there is a suggestion Covid-19 was brought into Wuhan by visiting American soldiers. Not sure how that is possible for obvious reasons but this is what I hear from a Chinese Australian who reads and follows Chinese language news sites. But I guess I am simply espousing the 'small village mentality' view

Boy, you are really hyper-sensitive to anything that might possibly be construed as anti-Chinese. You specifically said that if the idea was promoted by top officials of the U.S., then it couldn't be fringe, and had to be representative of Western governments. Both of these implications are false.

That was my point. I was not deflecting any blame from anyone. If you want to rant on about how everyone is persecuting the Chinese, I really don't care. But your statement of "Chinese counterparts" totally ignores the huge differences between the U.S. and China. Trump can make some claim about the virus, and anyone who follows the U.S. closely--and you can be very sure the Chinese do--will know that is Trump, and not necessarily official U.S. beliefs or policy. In contrast, if Xi makes a statement, everyone understands that this is official Chinese policy. If Xi actually said the virus was engineered in Ft. Detrick, then everyone in the Chinese intelligence community would echo that view, and so would every Chinese scientist, except those few brave enough to challenge him.

Of course that's true for China, and should be for every country that elects a president - someone who has an obligation to act as a Chief Diplomat, leading the conversation on foreign policy and provide responses to international situations. His appointed advisor that's directly in charge of foreign policy, the Secretary of State, has the direct obligation to represent the U.S. at major diplomatic conferences, but he also echoes the president's words. So when the two people directly in charge of foreign policy and the country's diplomatic stance, promotes an idea, that's what the majority of people hear and believe is the U.S. policy towards that particular idea.

 

[jmdirt]

It was assumed since you were replying to a previous quote which said so.





Of course that's true for China, and should be for every country that elects a president - someone who has an obligation to act as a Chief Diplomat, leading the conversation on foreign policy and provide responses to international situations. His appointed advisor that's directly in charge of foreign policy, the Secretary of State, has the direct obligation to represent the U.S. at major diplomatic conferences, but he also echoes the president's words. So when the two people directly in charge of foreign policy and the country's diplomatic stance, promotes an idea, that's what the majority of people hear and believe is the U.S. policy towards that particular idea.

Only people with an IQ under 80 believe anything dt says.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Bhakdi finally made it to Fox.

INGRAHAM: Well, so you believe that the COVID vaccine is not necessary?

BHAKDI: I think it's downright dangerous. And I warn you, if you go along these lines, you are going to go to your doom. And it's so, so unnecessary.

Gaviria made the WSJ.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1334502961913860096

View: https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1334502961913860096

 

[Merckx index]

Biden says he will ask all Americans to wear a mask during his first one hundred days in office. He will mandate masks in certain places where he has control, such as federal buildings and interstate transportation (where most people are already wearing masks, I think). He also will make Fauci his chief medical advisor, part of his team.

It looks as though deaths may exceed 3000 today, certainly will be close. The big question is whether cases are continuing to go up, because as long as they do, so will deaths, down the road. I still think that after a Thanksgiving spike, cases will subside somewhat. But there could be 100,000 deaths in December. I shudder to think what the situation would be like if no vaccines were on the horizon.

 

[movingtarget]

Swedes' support for anti-lockdown stance slips amid rising Covid deaths

News comes as PM says high schools will switch to distance learning for rest of term

www.theguardian.com

 

[Koronin]

Biden says he will ask all Americans to wear a mask during his first one hundred days in office. He will mandate masks in certain places where he has control, such as federal buildings and interestate transportation (where most people are already wearing masks, I think). He also will make Fauci a chief medical advisor, part of his team.

It looks as though deaths may exceed 3000 today, certainly will be close. The big question is whether cases are continuing to go up, because as long as they do, so will deaths, down the road. I still think that after a Thanksgiving spike, cases will subside somewhat. But there could be 100,000 deaths in December. I shudder to think what the situation would be like if no vaccines were on the horizon.

At some point hospitals will be full and unable to accept anyone else, so just by that deaths will go up. At some point the hospitals will revert to triage if they haven't already started. Here in NC we still have hospital space, but it's getting worse. Here's an article from a Raleigh media organization:

Hospitals have space for COVID patients, but staffs are strained

Hospitals in North Carolina are starting to fill up as coronavirus rages across the state.

www.wral.com

 

[Unchained]

The U.S.is reaching record after record. Something that keeps hitting me over and over is the American media culture. As many Europeans, Asians and Africans may be unaware, the U.S. has many rules some formal some accepted cultural norms about showing death,nudity and gore graphically on TV or in print.We also have some health care privacy protocols that are pretty strict.
Many experts say that without real life references, Americans are not going to get the message. So we do get big pan shots of mass burials, or full morgue refrigerated trailers and brief pictures of Covid patients in bed hooked up to equipment or w medical staff surrounding them..
But no death..no people gasping for air or going into cardiac arrest..we are just getting the watered down PG version, when we need a rated R, Scared Straight edition of devastation and destruction as the pandemic slaughters more today than ever before..
The leader of our country has done something never seen before during a pandemic,during declared war,he himself declared it..he made a 45 minute info- mercial..and has basically stopped fighting,caring about anything Covid..
We need national leadership now not latter

 

[Merckx index]

A not so merry Christmas for many. Tens of thousands hospitalized, thousands dying. I saw an interview with a medical professional who said that six health care workers in her institution had committed suicide in recent months from the stress of watching people die, some of them unnecessarily, and not being able to do anything. ("As a clinician, you don't want to see people die from things that are preventable"). Millions of healthy people are unemployed, waiting for a new stimulus, while Congress dicks around. Pelosi refused a $1.9 trillion offer from Trump a few months ago (to be fair, it's not clear that McConnell would have accepted it). Now she's on the verge of accepting less than half of that, why now, Nancy, why did you have to delay this for months? but at least it's something.

 

[SHAD0W93]

A not so merry Christmas for many. Tens of thousands hospitalized, thousands dying. I saw an interview with a medical professional who said that six health care workers in her institution had committed suicide in recent months from the stress of watching people die, some of them unnecessarily, and not being able to do anything. ("As a clinician, you don't want to see people die from things that are preventable"). Millions of healthy people are unemployed, waiting for a new stimulus, while Congress dicks around. Pelosi refused a $1.9 billion offer from Trump a few months ago (to be fair, it's not clear that McConnell would have accepted it). Now she's on the verge of accepting less than half of that, why now, Nancy, why did you have to delay this for months? but at least it's something.

There was a provider at my hospital who got sick with covid, came to the hospital as a patient. Was told it was bad but had some signs of hope. He asked to get his affairs in order in private and his colleagues let him. Unfortunately didn't make it to morning. There's some patients that have had it for months and the room is like a prison. I feel for all of them especially since I had it the whole last month.

 

[Merckx index]

I had it the whole last month.

You had C19? You are the first poster in the forum I've read who caught the virus, though there are probably more. If you had symptoms for a month, you must have had a pretty bad case.

 

[SHAD0W93]

You had C19? You are the first poster in the forum I've read who caught the virus, though there are probably more. If you had symptoms for a month, you must have had a pretty bad case.

I did indeed. Had symptoms 2-3 days before a fever of 101.7. Tested positive on a rapid test on Halloween. Spent all of November at home, my birthday, Thanksgiving, etc. First week was like 6-7 out of 10. Second week I was getting better. Third week was absolutely terrible, 10 out of 10 with the only good thing is nothing major respiratory besides a cough sometimes. Fourth week was like the second. I have since tested negative twice so back to work tomorrow. Good for my bank account, bad for other reasons. Either got it from work or school clinicals, both at hospitals but I wear a N95, surgical, and face shield with a PAPR at work when able, then really on the hand hygiene. Don't know where I got it from but happy my girlfriend didn't get it and hasn't yet. She works in a hospital too plus military where they have her at testing sites.

 

[Merckx index]

Thanks for sharing this. It's such a crapshoot, with some people having mild or no symptoms, and others getting hit by a truck. Must be scary to have it getting worse in the third week, you start worrying about either the ICU, or becoming one of those long-termers.

 

[Keram]

Bhakdi finally made it to Fox.


Gaviria made the WSJ.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1334502961913860096

View: https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1334502961913860096

I would love to know how this people want to stop this pandemic if not with vaccine.

 

[jmdirt]

A not so merry Christmas for many. Tens of thousands hospitalized, thousands dying. I saw an interview with a medical professional who said that six health care workers in her institution had committed suicide in recent months from the stress of watching people die, some of them unnecessarily, and not being able to do anything. ("As a clinician, you don't want to see people die from things that are preventable"). Millions of healthy people are unemployed, waiting for a new stimulus, while Congress dicks around. Pelosi refused a $1.9 trillion offer from Trump a few months ago (to be fair, it's not clear that McConnell would have accepted it). Now she's on the verge of accepting less than half of that, why now, Nancy, why did you have to delay this for months? but at least it's something.

I obviously don't know what NP is/was thinking, but "why now?" Maybe she kind of gave up and decided to take a little now, and hope for more in Jan? It is criminal how our elected people have handled this.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I would love to know how this people want to stop this pandemic if not with vaccine.

They have a book to sell you about that. Which is what he was flogging on the show.

The gist of it is that they think that 50% of people are already immune from prior seasonal coronavirus infections (very dubious IMO), so it is better to let people get infected until herd immunity is reached. This was more plausible in the summer when infections were really low in most places in Europe. The fall outbreaks have indicated that we are nowhere close to herd immunity in any country. As far as I can tell, Bhakdi only goes on friendly outlets where those pesky details are not discussed. His scientific arguments do not stand up to scrutiny IMO.

A reminder that for indoor dining 2 meters and 15 minutes are not magic numbers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1334131904640131087

View: https://twitter.com/AliNouriPhD/status/1334131904640131087