Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[djpbaltimore]

For those who are not aware, there are quite a few paleo type groups that believe natural infection is the way to go even in the case of measles or chicken pox. They often intersect with homeopathy practitioners. Nutrition and clean living is the real vaccine for them! That is also why I asked Nomad if universal infection was the end goal.

Anti vaxxer orgs really have the best names. They really lean into the marketing aspects. How can you be against the Children's Health Defense? LOL.... It would be more funny if they were not so incredibly successful at what they do.

I think we will get to 60%. It won’t be government that does it, it will be business. You want to get on that plane? Show your vacc cert. Concert or sporting event? Show your cert.

Want to go change the titling on your house at the County office? Show your cert.

In fact, if congress doesn’t protect business owners from potential covid liability from employees I could easily see this mindset filtering way down to movie theaters, restaurants, bars, etc.

International Travel is clearly going to be an issue for people that are unvaccinated. Ditto for cruises. But, I seriously doubt any of the other examples go into effect, because that would require businesses to turn away paying customers when that is at a premium. JMO, but once employers mostly decided not to mandate vaccinations, I think the notion that entertainment venues would became really unlikely. In a few months, a quarter of the country will have been infected and maybe 100 million vaccinated. That along with even half-arsed measures and warmer weather will put a huge dent in transmission. Normality will soon resume and vaccination will be back burnered for many people. Doubtful vaccine certs will be a 'thing' unless a lot of the worse case scenarios play out.

The scheduled dining ban in my county was put on hold by the courts after a suit brought by local small businessmen. See how much power they can bring to bear when they want to? They basically have gotten what they wanted at every step of the way even if it counter-acted sound health policy.

 

[jmdirt]

Nomad really scouts the underbelly of the internet. "Children's Health Defense" = anti-vaxxer organisation.

As Keram posted: you're against vaccinations and against restrictions. What are you actually for?

Vitamin D sales!

 

[Unchained]

Belly laughed at this one. Thanks, I guess.

Sorry if it was confusing Chris, I wasn't complimenting anybody for lying to old people about the dangers of the virus. Until these last four years I was strongly against capitol punishment, Trump has made me reconsider, even the Pope or Mother Teresa could not get me to change my mind for crimes committed against American people..
314,000 dead..we are edging closer to one out of every 1000 Americans

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Sorry if it was confusing Chris, I wasn't complimenting anybody for lying to old people about the dangers of the virus. Until these last four years I was strongly against capitol punishment, Trump has made me reconsider, even the Pope or Mother Teresa could not get me to change my mind for crimes committed against American people..
314,000 dead..we are edging closer to one out of every 1000 Americans

You misunderstand... I’m laughing at your ridiculousness. I’d call it trollkraft but I don’t think we are supposed to point that out here, so I won’t.

 

[Unchained]

For those who are not aware, there are quite a few paleo type groups that believe natural infection is the way to go even in the case of measles or chicken pox. They often intersect with homeopathy practitioners. Nutrition and clean living is the real vaccine for them! That is also why I asked Nomad if universal infection was the end goal.

Anti vaxxer orgs really have the best names. They really lean into the marketing aspects. How can you be against the Children's Health Defense? LOL.... It would be more funny if they were not so incredibly successful at what they do.

International Travel is clearly going to be an issue for people that are unvaccinated. Ditto for cruises. But, I seriously doubt any of the other examples go into effect, because that would require businesses to turn away paying customers when that is at a premium. JMO, but once employers mostly decided not to mandate vaccinations, I think the notion that entertainment venues would became really unlikely. In a few months, a quarter of the country will have been infected and maybe 100 million vaccinated. That along with even half-arsed measures and warmer weather will put a huge dent in transmission. Normality will soon resume and vaccination will be back burnered for many people. Doubtful vaccine certs will be a 'thing' unless a lot of the worse case scenarios play out.

The scheduled dining ban in my county was put on hold by the courts after a suit brought by local small businessmen. See how much power they can bring to bear when they want to? They basically have gotten what they wanted at every step of the way even if it counter-acted sound health policy.

if you had a raging 5 alarm fire, half of America showed up w fire fighting equipment and the other half showed up in bathing suits,flip flops and carrying folding beach chairs and insisted, that the US constitution commanded them to mix intentionally w those there to fight the fire..you got the US.
If 50% of the population don't see the fire burning right in front of them..it's going to be a long haul..and if Trump goes on TV to say he doesn't believe in fire..well..we are witnessing the results..
Covid is going to be real on aircraft,buses, trains and cruise ships..even if people don't believe in the virus..

 

[Unchained]

I have asked you the question directly before..do you think it was wrong for Trump to tell the American people something different than he knew was accurate,as demonstrated in the Bob Woodward interview?
a detailed account were Trump lists the dangers and in his own words does a danger comparison to other deadly viruses?
It is always going to be basically the same,based on factual history, not if Trump lied ,that is confirmed. Was it useful? Again nothing moral.. Just did it further the constitutional obligations to protect the country and the people

 

[Unchained]

Bitter disagreements will not subside between us in the internet class..but from h high,well funded, properly staffed government offices we will as Americans be working towards an objective..
Straight forward math
President
half the population working towards a goal of golf is great and denial of science
And now instead of the United States President and cabinet working against pubic health, now working towards it..
similar numbers just different direction.
Biden will never,ever ever,never in a million years tell the public that harsh light bulbs, disinfectant,zinc or malaria meds, warm weather,or will power..are cures or prevention for Covid-19..that's soooo last year!!!

 

[Unchained]

The circus is leaving town..I think I see Dr..Atlas on a wagon in the distance..

 

[Unchained]

it's coming into focus..everyone is wearing t-shirts that say " Pardon Us Please!!! "

 

[Unchained]

Mexico is reporting that they don't have freezers for any Pfizer fixes!!!

 

[Chris Gadsden]

if you had a raging 5 alarm fire, half of America showed up w fire fighting equipment and the other half showed up in bathing suits,flip flops and carrying folding beach chairs and insisted, that the US constitution commanded them to mix intentionally w those there to fight the fire..you got the US.
If 50% of the population don't see the fire burning right in front of them..it's going to be a long haul..and if Trump goes on TV to say he doesn't believe in fire..well..we are witnessing the results..
Covid is going to be real on aircraft,buses, trains and cruise ships..even if people don't believe in the virus..

Oh boy. Since November 2016 about half the Country never believed a word coming out of DjT’s mouth. Somehow 3 years in to his admin EVERYONE is hanging on the edge of their seats looking for Presidential guidance from an impeached illegitimate Prez who sold out the Country.

You really should work on getting your story straight. So yeah, I’m laughing at you because there’s no alternative.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

I have asked you the question directly before..do you think it was wrong for Trump to tell the American people something different than he knew was accurate,as demonstrated in the Bob Woodward interview?
a detailed account were Trump lists the dangers and in his own words does a danger comparison to other deadly viruses?
It is always going to be basically the same,based on factual history, not if Trump lied ,that is confirmed. Was it useful? Again nothing moral.. Just did it further the constitutional obligations to protect the country and the people

You act like a scorned lover. Scaramucci or Omarosa? I can’t decide.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Like, what’s going on?


GRAND COUNTY, Colo. (CBS4) – The Grand County coroner is calling attention to the way the state health department is classifying some deaths. The coroner, Brenda Bock, says two of their five deaths related to COVID-19 were people who died of gunshot wounds.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/12/15/grand-county-covid-deaths/

 

[Merckx index]

If Pfizer & Moderna would stand by the "high safety" they claim for their product and remove liability protection, more people would be willing to take the inoculation.

It's not that simple. If tens of millions of people are vaccinated, simple statistics tells us that a few people will soon after suffer adverse consequences. Not from the vaccine, but just because you can select any group of millions of people at random, and a few days, weeks or months later, just by chance some of them will die, or suffer some serious health problem. The numbers will be particularly great when many of those millions are elderly and/or with pre-existing health problems. Those who keep downplaying the pandemic, saying "it kills people who were going to die soon, anyway," should be able to understand this.

People will mistakenly, and wishfully, connect the death or health problem to the vaccine, and the lawsuits will fly. It's called the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy.

Maybe we need another across-the-aisle deal. Give McConnell his waiver for employer's liability--the central issue, as I understand it, that's holding up very badly needed stimulus money for people who can't pay their rent or buy food--in return for everyone agreeing to be vaccinated without any liability for that.

 

[Koronin]

It's not that simple. If tens of millions of people are vaccinated, simple statistics tells us that a few people will soon after suffer adverse consequences. Not from the vaccine, but just because you can select any group of millions of people at random, and a few days, weeks or months later, just by chance some of them will die, or suffer some serious health problem. The numbers will be particularly great when many of those millions are elderly and/or with pre-existing health problems. Those who keep downplaying the pandemic, saying "it kills people who were going to die soon, anyway," should be able to understand this.

People will mistakenly, and wishfully, connect the death or health problem to the vaccine, and the lawsuits will fly. It's called the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy.

Maybe we need another across-the-aisle deal. Give McConnell his waiver for employer's liability--the central issue, as I understand it, that's holding up very badly needed stimulus money for people who can't pay their rent or buy food--in return for everyone agreeing to be vaccinated without any liability for that.

The problem with this is the way it was written it would allow companies to eliminate all Covid safety standards and force everyone back to work and fire anyone for not wanting to work without the safety protocols. It would allow companies to stop providing PPE and plexiglass between people, etc. We already have reports of a meat factory where the managers were taking bets on how many employees would get sick and die from Covid. There would be no way to hold them responsible with that liability waiver. Also currently that isn't the issue that is holding things up. They agreed to remove that and remove funding to cities and states. What is currently holding things up is that the GOP is now insisting on ending the Fed's ability to help the economy.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Maybe we need another across-the-aisle deal. Give McConnell his waiver for employer's liability--the central issue, as I understand it, that's holding up very badly needed stimulus money for people who can't pay their rent or buy food--in return for everyone agreeing to be vaccinated without any liability for that.

I just love the position of giving huge Pharma a zero liability pass on the vaccine but if an employee of the local grocery store gets covid then the store owners retains all the liability. This only makes sense to those (Pelosi) so far removed from real life that they quite literally are unqualified for the position they hold.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Vaccines don't make a lot of money, so if you want important, time-sensitive vaccines made by the private sector, you have to provide incentives. Whether it is morally right or wrong is really not a factor in the discussion.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Vaccines don't make a lot of money, so if you want important, time-sensitive vaccines made by the private sector, you have to provide incentives. Whether it is morally right or wrong is really not a factor in the discussion.

The next time our Government does anything out of a sense of moral responsibility will very likely be the first time.

There is no reason not to provide every employer who took available and know measures to prevent covid infections liability protection if/when employees sue employers.

That should be 100% agreed to from every single member of Congress. If we are going to hand out a Trillion in incentives to keep people on the payroll then we should also agree to protect those that did everything they could to protect their workers.

It’s a no brainer, yet here we are.

 

[BroDeal]

The problem with this is the way it was written it would allow companies to eliminate all Covid safety standards and force everyone back to work and fire anyone for not wanting to work without the safety protocols. It would allow companies to stop providing PPE and plexiglass between people, etc. We already have reports of a meat factory where the managers were taking bets on how many employees would get sick and die from Covid. There would be no way to hold them responsible with that liability waiver.

Without liability protection we are going to spend the next two years seeing ads saying, "Did you get covid-19 while working? You may be due a fat settlement. Call the law offices of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe for a free consultation." The Dems want to hand a huge plum to the legal extortion racket.

 

[djpbaltimore]

That doesn't sound great. If vaccines were a new concept, I don't think they would be viable in modern Western society.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1339891822840168448

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/Brizzyc/status/1339891822840168448

 

[Jagartrott]

Oh boy. Since November 2016 about half the Country never believed a word coming out of DjT’s mouth. Somehow 3 years in to his admin EVERYONE is hanging on the edge of their seats looking for Presidential guidance from an impeached illegitimate Prez who sold out the Country.

You really should work on getting your story straight. So yeah, I’m laughing at you because there’s no alternative.

It's exactly about the half that does take the presidents advice above the advice of qualified experts like Fauci. They are the ones the president could reach but has instead partly turned (or further encouraged) into being covid skeptics, mask skeptics, and so on. That is a gigantic responsibility.

 

[Merckx index]

It's exactly about the half that does take the presidents advice above the advice of qualified experts like Fauci. They are the ones the president could reach but has instead partly turned (or further encouraged) into being covid skeptics, mask skeptics, and so on. That is a gigantic responsibility.

Trump made two of the top eight junk science claims in this list--injecting bleach and using HCQ. With regards to bleach:

a CDC survey of 502 adults conducted a month later found that, of the respondents, "19% said they had used bleach on food, 18% said they had applied household cleaners to their skin, 10% said they had misted themselves with disinfectant sprays, 6% had inhaled vapors from the cleaners, and 4% had drunk or gargled diluted bleach solutions, soapy water, or other disinfectants."

Also making the list was MyPillow's Mike Lindell's promotion of oleandrin. However, touting miracle cures that just don't have enough evidence to support them seems to me not nearly as bad as David Icke's 5G rants, or Plandemic.

The Biggest Junk Science of 2020

The startling spread of the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus has affected everyone and everything, junk science included. Each December, RealClearScience recalls the the most egregious examples of fraud, woo, f

www.realclearscience.com

Meanwhile, some people really want the vaccine, bad. There are reports that people are offering money to cut in line. One doctor said a patient offered to give $25,000 to a medical charity if he could be vaccinated now.

The founder of Concierge MD LA, Dr. Abe Malkin, said he's received over a hundred phone calls from people trying to get early access to the initial doses.

"I'd say that 5 to 10 percent of those were willing to try to make some contribution to a charity to get themselves bumped up in line," according to Malkin.

In California, wealthy patients are offering top dollar to cut the line for a Covid-19 vaccine | CNN

While the nation continues to see record levels of new Covid-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths, wealthy patients in Southern California -- the epicenter of the state's Covid-19 crisis -- are offering to pay top dollar to cut the line and be among the first to receive a vaccine.

edition.cnn.com

 

[search]

International Travel is clearly going to be an issue for people that are unvaccinated. Ditto for cruises. But, I seriously doubt any of the other examples go into effect, because that would require businesses to turn away paying customers when that is at a premium. JMO, but once employers mostly decided not to mandate vaccinations, I think the notion that entertainment venues would became really unlikely. In a few months, a quarter of the country will have been infected and maybe 100 million vaccinated. That along with even half-arsed measures and warmer weather will put a huge dent in transmission. Normality will soon resume and vaccination will be back burnered for many people. Doubtful vaccine certs will be a 'thing' unless a lot of the worse case scenarios play out.

it really depends on the fact if vaccinated people can still spread the virus or not, I guess (which, from my understanding, isn't known yet). If this is the case, not getting the vaccine will lead to a huge risk of getting infected, as everyone else obviously will want to stop being careful rather sooner than later.

 

[Jagartrott]

Some numbers on covid excess mortality for Belgium for the period 1 January - 6 December:

• 14830 more people died than in an average year
• c. 65% of the excess dead were older than 85
• excess mortality in all age cohorts over 65
• lower mortality than normal in all age cohorts under 65
• highest 'under-mortality' in cohort < 25 y: 540 dead compared to 940 on average = a drop by more than 40%

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Trump made two of the top eight junk science claims in this list--injecting bleach and using HCQ. With regards to bleach:

Nevermind that he didn’t say that. Looks like realclearscience is taking cue’s from Jeff Zucker.

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."

Turns out the Prez had just been briefed on an ongoing study at Cedars Sinai regarding UV light therapy for respiratory infections. It also turns out peer reviewed studies aren‘t all that. Just ask Didier Raoult and P.R. Hsueh.

But, ya know, your hindsight is amazing.