Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[RedheadDane]

Ah, so most of the spray goes under your arm and onto the beans, and now you're walking around with C19 snot on you arm. That's not better than containing the spray. The reason that the 'sneeze in your elbow' strategy came about was because people used to sneeze in their hand and touch too many things (including others' hands) before they washed their hand.

One of our nurses at work shared a video with us ~10 years ago with people sneezing into their elbow...the amount of spray was so disgusting that no one in our building did that for years. Google around a bit a see if that video is out there. EDIT: It didn't turn up in my quick search, but you would be shocked how much spray comes out of your nose and mouth when you sneeze, and how much of that doesn't stop in your elbow.

But surely it's still better than just sneezing without covering at all. Also… I think some people just sort of... hold their elbow in front of their face, rather than really press their face into the elbow.

Meanwhile a new special law is probably coming, in the late evening the first minister announced that they'll block also factories and only strictly essential activities will be allowed and in some regions people already can't go further than 200 meters from their home.

Is that including when going for groceries? Do Italy just generally have grocery stores everywhere? And if you do, does that mean how far you'd have to actually go, or how far away it is in a direct line?
For me, personally, I think if I could take the most direct route, my local store would be more than 200 meters away. And the most direct route would require learning to fly...

 

[Merckx index]

In my desperate search to find something to make me laugh, here's another one:

THEY TOLD ME ALL I NEEDED TO GO TO THE GROCERY STORE WAS A MASK AND GLOVES.

THEY WERE WRONG! EVERYONE ELSE WAS WEARING CLOTHES.

 

[gregrowlerson]

What changed all of a sudden in the land down under? I was just watching one of their AFL games live here in the States on FOX1 in front of an empty stadium.

We've become a World consumed in fear...

Social restrictions are changing almost on an hour by hour basis.

The AFL is a national game, so once states are closing their borders, that's the end of it.

There have already been many Government announcements for financial support for small businesses and individuals that are negatively effected in the work force, so that should be reducing some of the fear at least.

 

[8472]

It was not just the "leaders in the west" There are plenty of medical and scientific resources stating the information clearly. If you are allowed to make such a broad uneducated statement I can make this statement. Leaders in the Far East specifically China deceived the world and failed to act on information that could have prevented most of this pandemic.

Right about now I'm not going to take any evidence from China as prof of anything. They are liars.

Where is your proof that China deceived the world and failed to act? Just because the anti-China mainstream media says so doesn't make it true, or are you so misinformed you can't tell facts from disinformation?

This is the official document from WHO investigation, read especially page 31 which will never be reported by the western press regarding data transparency, which says:
January 3rd, 2020, information on COVID-19 cases has been reported to WHO daily.
January 7th, full genome sequences of the new virus were shared with WHO and the international community immediately after the pathogen was identified.
January 10th, an expert group involving Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwanese technical experts and a World Health Organization team was invited to visit Wuhan.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...na-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

 

[Jagartrott]

My Chinese colleagues tell me that the Wuhan local government decided to 'block' bad news end of December until mid-January (there was a Party conference, and bad news would be bad for the official's careers). This is the period when the virus could have been contained at an early stage. The doctors who discovered covid-19 received a gag-order and were reprimanded. Meanwhile, the city organized a new year's party with tens of thousands of attendees. The number of new cases was flatlining. There is no doubt whatsoever that they screwed up, also not among the Chinese population.

 

[Ranagazoo]

Masks are far more socially common in the East, people wear them for all kinds of reasons - to avoid germs, pollution, etc. In the West people just don't wear them, whether they're available in the shops are not. In the UK recently, Asian people wearing masks in public are likely to get racially abused

 

[8472]

My Chinese colleagues tell me that the Wuhan local government decided to 'block' bad news end of December until mid-January (there was a Party conference, and bad news would be bad for the official's careers). This is the period when the virus could have been contained at an early stage. The doctors who discovered covid-19 received a gag-order and were reprimanded. Meanwhile, the city organized a new year's party with tens of thousands of attendees. The number of new cases was flatlining. There is no doubt whatsoever that they screwed up, also not among the Chinese population.

It's true they had a few screwups, but once they realized the threats posed by this never before seen virus, they acted rapidly to prevent further spread. So my main argument was against people who try to pin the blame for the outbreak happening in their own country squarely on China, when countries had a month or more to prepare, enforce better quarantine and customs procedures.

By the way, it was the local police who forced Dr. Li to sign the admonition letter, not the central government, so it's not like the CCP was forcing the local police to act, and once the CCP realized what had happened, the local police was heavily reprimanded. He was also an ophthalmologist, not a pulmonologist so it was outside his area of expertise, so he couldn't actually differentiate the illness form SARS or a new virus.

The Chinese government started reporting COVID cases to the WHO starting from January 3rd on a daily basis. The whole idea that the CCP was involved in a wilful coverup is blatant MSM disinformation campaign.

 

[tobydawq]

Let's say that we are infected/contagious, but not sick so we go shopping and sneeze or cough, how much C19 just landed on the canned beans? How many others will now get C19 from grabbing a can of beans? If we just had something covering our nose and mouth that could have stopped at least some of the spray. So to help the medical community we won't use masks, but we could use tube style products that we already have like Buff or SweatVac* to cover our mouth and nose when we are in the store. It will stop at least some of the spray (maybe all), and therefore infect less people.

*I'm not trying to sell either of these brands, I am just using them as examples because they are well known. The generic versions cost much less and would work similarly.

Maybe we could, you know, not sneeze or cough on the beans but in our elbows...

 

[del1962]

China Is Avoiding Blame by Trolling the World

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/china-trolling-world-and-avoiding-blame/608332/

26 posts and spreading china's govermnents propoganda

 

[Jagartrott]

It's true they had a few screwups, but once they realized the threats posed by this never before seen virus, they acted rapidly to prevent further spread. So my main argument was against people who try to pin the blame for the outbreak happening in their own country squarely on China, when countries had a month or more to prepare, enforce better quarantine and customs procedures.

By the way, it was the local police who forced Dr. Li to sign the admonition letter, not the central government, so it's not like the CCP was forcing the local police to act, and once the CCP realized what had happened, the local police was heavily reprimanded. He was also an ophthalmologist, not a pulmonologist so it was outside his area of expertise, so he couldn't actually differentiate the illness form SARS or a new virus.

The Chinese government started reporting COVID cases to the WHO starting from January 3rd on a daily basis. The whole idea that the CCP was involved in a wilful coverup is blatant MSM disinformation campaign.

A few screw-ups, yes...

• first, they kept an eye closed for this wet market, which was illegal; the virus jumped to humans there
• then, they kept a lid on the information regarding the proliferation of this virus, and kept claiming there was no sign of human-to-human transmission, even after this was very clear to doctors in the local hospitals (but they had to keep their mouths shut - this wasn't one doctor (Li) who received a gag order by the way, it was a group)
• finally, the kept organizing mass events well after it was clear there was human-to-human transmission

The number of positive cases in those first weeks of January was blatantly false. Either they didn't test (like in Italy), or they manipulated the numbers, but the real positive cases exploded in those first weeks. This was already derived by modellers after positive cases appeared in Japan and elsewhere.

New virus in China 'will have infected hundreds'

The virus emerged in December, two people have died and it has been detected in three countries.

www.bbc.com

My Chinese colleagues tell me many Chinese are angry with the Wuhan government and officials. The blame is not just on a few local policemen (who were following orders, obviously). It's the system and the lack of free press that allowed this virus to proliferate. Yes, western governments have been extremely slow in their response, but the root of the problem lies in China. Wet markets, local government cover-up and no free press.

By the way, the story of Ai Fen, the original whistleblower, is being heavily censored in China, but some Chinese have been quite inventive in keeping the story alive, including translating it to Morse and other languages - this has been directly confirmed by one of my Chinese colleagues:

Martian language, emoji, and braille: How China is rallying to save a coronavirus story online

A Chinese magazine has published new details about China’s early efforts to suppress information about its unfolding coronavirus epidemic—a source of significant public anger—and now people are scrambling to preserve the account from Beijing’s censors.

qz.com

 

[8472]

China Is Avoiding Blame by Trolling the World

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/china-trolling-world-and-avoiding-blame/608332/

26 posts and spreading china's govermnents propoganda

over 9000 posts and still living in your own bubble. So anything bad about China is believed and believable, and anything good about it is false. Keep clutching to your sense of exceptionalism.

Is Washington’s Attack Against Chinese Media a Bad Joke? - Global Research

The U.S. is insulting the Chinese media. It is affecting both countries. My colleagues in Beijing believe, correctly, that Washington should have tried to increase communication, not to bring it to a halt. Twist what is happening; reverse facts. That is what the Western media does when “dealing...

www.globalresearch.ca

 

[8472]

• finally, the kept organizing mass events well after it was clear there was human-to-human transmission

This is true for all western world nations who failed to control the pandemic, only worse since they already had advanced knowledge and time to prepare, but still didn't stop mass events.

The number of positive cases in those first weeks of January was blatantly false. Either they didn't test (like in Italy), or they manipulated the numbers, but the real positive cases exploded in those first weeks. This was already derived by modellers after positive cases appeared in Japan and elsewhere.

The positive cases in the first weeks of January was indeed false since the criteria for confirmation was set too high, namely one criteria that needed to be satisfied: patients must have had prior exposure to the Huanan seafood market. But later they found out that many people who didn't have exposure had also contracted the illness, they removed this criteria, resulting in the rapid increase in the number of true cases.

 

[Sestriere]

The first government now seeks to implement indefinite authoritarian measures amid the chaos of the corona crisis: Hungarian Government will try to extend the state of emergency for an unlimited time to be able to govern through decrees with no necessity to involve the parliament whatsoever.

https://www.reuters.com/article/hea...-powers-amid-coronavirus-crisis-idUSL8N2BE0U2

 

[Nirvana]

How do you get groceries or medical supplies if you don't have factories running? California's Governor tonight said in his press conference that he's in talks with several factories in California about them swapping over to start producing medical supplies.

That go under strictly necessary activities as far I know, this evening we should know more.

 

[Nirvana]

But surely it's still better than just sneezing without covering at all. Also… I think some people just sort of... hold their elbow in front of their face, rather than really press their face into the elbow.

It always amaze me how it possible that no one consider the possibility to use tissues that can be thrown away instead of discussing in which part of the body someone should "attach" the infected droplets. Maybe I'm strange but I always have a certain number of tissue with me for every need, nowadays a pack of tissues has 10 inside and is smaller than a phone or a wallet, you can easily put a couple in your pocket.

Is that including when going for groceries? Do Italy just generally have grocery stores everywhere? And if you do, does that mean how far you'd have to actually go, or how far away it is in a direct line?
For me, personally, I think if I could take the most direct route, my local store would be more than 200 meters away. And the most direct route would require learning to fly...

I think is referred to people that used running, walking, going with the dog as an excuse to move for kilometers. But in Lombardia they are searching volunteers to take food directly to the homes so people can totally avoid going out.

 

[Nirvana]

Continues to increase the number of people denounced, more than 11.000 yesterday.

Coronavirus: morti in diminuzione, 651. I malati sono oltre 46mila. 'Speriamo nel calo' - Salute & Benessere

Sono 7.024 le persone guarite in Italia dopo aver contratto il coronavirus, 952 in più di ieri. Ieri il dato giornaliero sui guariti era di 943 (ANSA)

www.ansa.it

 

[djpbaltimore]

From what the usa media is telling the public that temperature does nothing. Well at least when someone mentioned it they went off on him.

If I had any relative living in a home of any type I would removed them and cared for them at my own home. The places have too much traffic of visitors and become a germ landing spot.

influenza cases are plummeting. The fact that COVID-19 cases are not indicates that it will not be as seasonable as influenza. I have heard a rough estimate that R naught will decrease by about 0.5. Meaning that it will still be over 1 without severe mitigation. It will not burn itself out left to its own devices.

Visitors are banned from many now and not all medical conditions can be managed at home.

I like this idea.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1241414540774060038

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidZipper/status/1241414540774060038

 

[yaco]

The China situation - My information is the virus first surfaced in November - Chinese scientists quickly sequenced the virus to find it was related to the SARS family - My understanding is China contacted WHO and selected Governments who chose to keep it private while at the same time backing China's expertise in handling the SARS crisis - Things turned pear shaped around XMAS when after quarantining and treating positive patients to contain COVID19, they then realised that carriers could spread the virus when asymptomatic - There seemed to be a paralysis of two weeks around XMAS/NY when little happened - I also understand is more than ten thousand died in Hubei province - Ultimately WHO and some Governments knew about this issue in December and it's no co-incidence that medical modelling for the virus was completed in many countries by Mid to Late January - My guess is Governments and the medical community were hoping the virus would burn out.

Edit ; Think you'll find the Wuhan wet Market as the source of the virus is doubtful.

 

[nevele neves]

The China situation - My information is the virus first surfaced in November - Chinese scientists quickly sequenced the virus to find it was related to the SARS family - My understanding is China contacted WHO and selected Governments who chose to keep it private while at the same time backing China's expertise in handling the SARS crisis - Things turned pear shaped around XMAS when after quarantining and treating positive patients to contain COVID19, they then realised that carriers could spread the virus when asymptomatic - There seemed to be a paralysis of two weeks around XMAS/NY when little happened - I also understand is more than ten thousand died in Hubei province - Ultimately WHO and some Governments knew about this issue in December and it's no co-incidence that medical modelling for the virus was completed in many countries by Mid to Late January - My guess is Governments and the medical community were hoping the virus would burn out.

Edit ; Think you'll find the Wuhan wet Market as the source of the virus is doubtful.

yup because everyone knows that having bats, koala, cats, dogs, camels, etc out on live and dead display has no impact on disease spreading.

 

[nevele neves]

influenza cases are plummeting. The fact that COVID-19 cases are not indicates that it will not be as seasonable as influenza. I have heard a rough estimate that R naught will decrease by about 0.5. Meaning that it will still be over 1 without severe mitigation. It will not burn itself out left to its own devices.

Visitors are banned from many now and not all medical conditions can be managed at home.

I like this idea.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1241414540774060038

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidZipper/status/1241414540774060038

The temp might actually be showing its effects on the southern hemisphere and also in the southern states. Could be.

 

[nevele neves]

Where is your proof that China deceived the world and failed to act? Just because the anti-China mainstream media says so doesn't make it true, or are you so misinformed you can't tell facts from disinformation?

This is the official document from WHO investigation, read especially page 31 which will never be reported by the western press regarding data transparency, which says:
January 3rd, 2020, information on COVID-19 cases has been reported to WHO daily.
January 7th, full genome sequences of the new virus were shared with WHO and the international community immediately after the pathogen was identified.
January 10th, an expert group involving Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwanese technical experts and a World Health Organization team was invited to visit Wuhan.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...na-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

why did the communist government kick out the western reporters?

The WHO is on the payroll of China, that is obvious to the world. In fact just yesterday here in Argentina they had a special on the influence WHO is under from the communist government.

Japan has harsher words for WHO and China. Surprised the western media has not picked up on it. Also South Korea's government had similar opinions.

 

[nevele neves]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oa4i9Ap6dCg

It is amazing that federal intervention would not be the obvious response to behavior like this when States rights are more important than national health.
Do surrounding communities know what will happen when these people use public bathrooms?
Just guessing that government oversight would be needed to ensure these young adults wash their hands.
If you hear this and trust this sub sect to exercise good judgement..omg

Do you know or care what is going on in Central Park daily since the lockdown? OMG indeed Navy Friend.

 

[nevele neves]

I am not sure where or who is passing information about who and who should not be tested. I think everyone should know his or her HIV status..and on topic before frolicking on Spring break. I you should know your immunization status..STD..and STP! status.
The idea that every American not knowing their status as it pertains to Covid-19 is valuable is absurd. In any direction. Knowing your status would change everything..it is life or death..maybe not yours but someone else's!!!
These are just basic life's moral issues that Americans can't appear to interpret.
And the Italian number @6557 cases 793 deaths..as of early this morning Pac Time.
California and the Federal response,including DOD requesting military field hospitals..
So somewhere between the kids w the backwards ball cap and government expert scientists and doctors is probably where the rubber should meet the road.
To see people still in "wait and see" mode makes me think of forced birth control or needed internment camps.
Do dead bodies not count unless you see them?
Are the S.Koreans suddenly non allies? Are there experiences suspect ? Are we doubting what Italian authorities are putting forward?
If the chubby cargo pants bunch should learn if anything,eating pizza doesn't,didn't fend off an\ the epidemic.
Also if you want to waste time and money come up with a slur to call the virus!!
We have folks so under educated they are boycotting a brand of beer out of fear..!!
Somebody help us,we can't do it alone!!

MERS
Japanese Encephalitis

Your CDC said only get a test if you are experiencing symtoms. In order to save on resources / and protect against spread.
What you are talking about is an antibody test which they should develop and give to everyone.

Read a little and give the exclamation marks a rest.

 

[nevele neves]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI

There are some conspiracy theory's out there about Bill. But I think people like Bill are the ones that can make a difference with the way they approach problems and solutions.

 

[jmdirt]

But surely it's still better than just sneezing without covering at all. Also… I think some people just sort of... hold their elbow in front of their face, rather than really press their face into the elbow.




Is that including when going for groceries? Do Italy just generally have grocery stores everywhere? And if you do, does that mean how far you'd have to actually go, or how far away it is in a direct line?
For me, personally, I think if I could take the most direct route, my local store would be more than 200 meters away. And the most direct route would require learning to fly...

WOAH, my original point was that wearing something over your face protects others so I'm not sure how that spun to "sneezing in your elbow is better than nothing". That may be true but its not better than wearing something to cover your mouth and nose (keep your spray off of the food).

Correct, that's the problem, most people don't contain the spray in their elbow so a tube style face cover would be better.

EDIT: This was my original post in response to mask alternatives:

"Let's say that we are infected/contagious, but not sick so we go shopping and sneeze or cough, how much C19 just landed on the canned beans? How many others will now get C19 from grabbing a can of beans? If we just had something covering our nose and mouth that could have stopped at least some of the spray. So to help the medical community we won't use masks, but we could use tube style products that we already have like Buff or SweatVac* to cover our mouth and nose when we are in the store. It will stop at least some of the spray (maybe all), and therefore infect less people.

*I'm not trying to sell either of these brands, I am just using them as examples because they are well known. The generic versions cost much less and would work similarly. "