Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[yaco]

If you are physical distanced, especially outside, there is very little reason to wear a mask (for C19 reasons). I'm not sure why that makes sense to those people?

I'm working from home, but the people in my company who are working at the building try to stay at least 10 feet away from each other in their work space. Frequently they are the only one in an area of the building so their spacing is more like 200 feet and several walls. In common areas (bathrooms, kitchens, meeting rooms*) they wear masks even if no one else is there because eventually someone else will be in there.

*When most of us started working from home the people in the building would gather in meeting rooms once a day because 'that is how we always do it'. One day there was 10 of us wired in from home meeting with 6 sitting in a room at the building when a team leader (not mine) said "we're in a virtual meeting, why are we all gathered in this room?", she exited the room followed by four others. In about five minutes we restarted the meeting, from 16 different locations. It was an adjustment time, figuring out the new way (at least for a while) of doing things. The team leaders still physically meet almost daily, but with only 4 or 5 in a meeting room designed for 35ish, they can easily keep physical space.

I live in Hong Kong where mask use in public is 97% and that's no joke - But in the workplace, especially where there is limited public contact it's far less than 97% - Physical distancing in a workplace is irrelevant if your personal hygiene is deficient - Exposure to COVID19 is all about prolonged one on one exposure to an infected person without taking the necessary hygiene standards.

 

[jmdirt]

I live in Hong Kong where mask use in public is 97% and that's no joke - But in the workplace, especially where there is limited public contact it's far less than 97% - Physical distancing in a workplace is irrelevant if your personal hygiene is deficient - Exposure to COVID19 is all about prolonged one on one exposure to an infected person without taking the necessary hygiene standards.

Hand washing is very important to reduce the spread of virus and bacteria, but it does't keep airborne stuff out of your respiratory system. Physical distancing is the best way to keep others' droplets out of your respiratory system.

So to your point, physical distancing is completely relevant, because washing your hands doesn't keep C19 from entering your nose and mouth from the air. The prolonged part is because the longer you are breathing the same air as an infected person, the greater viral load your are getting. Washing your hands is important if you touched something with C19 on it because you don't want to scratch your eyes/nose/mouth with C19 on your hand.

Put another way, I could go all day without washing my hands, but as long as I don't touch my eyes/nose/mouth the virus has no way of getting from my hands to my respiratory system (edited slightly for clarification).

Notes: The thought of not washing your hands all day even pre-C19 is gross. The odds of not touching your face all day are zero.

EDIT for clarification: I am saying that distancing is the best way to avoid getting C19 because you aren't breathing infected peoples' droplets/aerosols.

 

[BlueRoads]

The odds of not touching your face all day are zero.

You don't wear make-up, do you?

 

[Unchained]

Seattle Man Gets $1.1 Million Coronavirus Hospital Bill: Report

The 70-year-old man said goodbye to his family before miraculously recovering.

www.huffpost.com

These stories are starting to pop up nationwide. Many within medical administration are saying that Medicaid and Medicare pay structure will not come close to paying the bills

 

[BlueRoads]

So what happens if you can't pay the bill?

 

[Cookster15]

Put another way, I could go all day without washing my hands, but as long as I don't touch my eyes/nose/mouth the virus has no way in

Yes but as you mention above that doesn't keep airborne stuff out of our respiratory system. Airborne transmission is the most common form of transmission.

 

[jmdirt]

Yes but as you mention above that doesn't keep airborne stuff out of our respiratory system. Airborne transmission is the most common form of transmission.

Yaco was putting hand washing over distancing so I was asserting that its the other way around, distancing is more important so that you aren't breathing C19 in. My "Put another way" was to point out that you can go all day without washing your hands, but you can't go all day without breathing (so distancing is most important).

The main point from my post:
"Physical distancing is the best way to keep others' droplets out of your respiratory system."

Followed by:
"So to your point, physical distancing is completely relevant, because washing your hands doesn't keep C19 from entering your nose and mouth from the air. The prolonged part is because the longer you are breathing the same air as an infected person, the greater viral load your are getting. Washing your hands is important if you touched something with C19 on it because you don't want to scratch your eyes/nose/mouth with C19 on your hand. "

So I assume that you are just agreeing with me?

 

[Cookster15]

Yaco was putting hand washing over distancing so I was asserting that its the other way around, distancing is more important so that you aren't breathing C19 in. My "Put another way" was to point out that you can go all day without washing your hands, but you can't go all day without breathing (so distancing is most important).

The main point from my post:
"Physical distancing is the best way to keep others' droplets out of your respiratory system."

Followed by:
"So to your point, physical distancing is completely relevant, because washing your hands doesn't keep C19 from entering your nose and mouth from the air. The prolonged part is because the longer you are breathing the same air as an infected person, the greater viral load your are getting. Washing your hands is important if you touched something with C19 on it because you don't want to scratch your eyes/nose/mouth with C19 on your hand. "

So I assume that you are just agreeing with me?

Yes. I edited my post. Check again. Sorry waking up over coffee here.

 

[yaco]

Yes but as you mention above that doesn't keep airborne stuff out of our respiratory system. Airborne transmission is the most common form of transmission.

It's airborne transmission if you have prolonged close contact with a person - Walking down the street doesn't give you prolonged close contact - My argument is that people who wear masks walking down the street, fail to wear them at workplaces where they have prolonged close contact - You follow the guidelines used by contact tracers and one of their KEY criteria for follow up is 15 minutes of face to face contact with a person - I'll add that if COVID 19 could be easily spread by airborne transmissions nearly HALF the world would be infected.

 

[Jagartrott]

It's airborne transmission if you have prolonged close contact with a person - Walking down the street doesn't give you prolonged close contact - My argument is that people who wear masks walking down the street, fail to wear them at workplaces where they have prolonged close contact.

It seems that the outdoor public mask wearing has more to do with psychology than with real protection. In a society where everyone wears masks in public, you don't want to be the odd one out, and if you would see someone without one, it might create unease. Casual contact, without talking, in the open air, will create almost 0% probability you would get infected - I think that's pretty much established among specialists. I would be worried being in enclosed spaces, especially with recirculating air. Religious masses with singing. Overcrowded dormitories. Busy cafeteria in care homes.

 

[Cookster15]

I'll add that if COVID 19 could be easily spread by airborne transmissions nearly HALF the world would be infected.

My understanding is an airborne COVID-19 virus ejected from an infected person sneezing will usually fall to the ground within 2 metres in still air (such as usually the case indoors). It is also true that you will normally require prolonged exposure to get infected.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Airborne has a particular definition depending on the size of the particle. Viruses spread by water droplets are not considered airborne by the strict definition of the term.

At least at my dad's facility, meals are still being taken in rooms even though visitor restrictions have been eased.

 

[hrotha]

My understanding is an airborne COVID-19 virus ejected from an infected person sneezing will usually fall to the ground within 2 metres in still air (such as usually the case indoors). It is also true that you will normally require prolonged exposure to get infected.

I don't have the source at hand (one of the most frustrating things about the pandemic is reading something useful, interesting and apparently legit, not saving it and then losing it forever among all the noise), but I think sneezing reaches way beyond 2 meters indoors, to the point that in a small or medium-sized room no place would be safe? Or something along those lines.

 

[dusty red roads]

Japanese researchers' findings from the Diamond Princess incident show only 11 people out of 90 without symptoms went on to develop them later

COVID-19 patients with no symptoms likely to stay that way, Japan researchers say

The findings showed that only 11 people out of 90 without symptoms on the Diamond Princess cruise ship would go on to develop them later.

www.japantimes.co.jp

 

[Mayomaniac]

If you are physical distanced, especially outside, there is very little reason to wear a mask (for C19 reasons). I'm not sure why that makes sense to those people?

I'm working from home, but the people in my company who are working at the building try to stay at least 10 feet away from each other in their work space. Frequently they are the only one in an area of the building so their spacing is more like 200 feet and several walls. In common areas (bathrooms, kitchens, meeting rooms*) they wear masks even if no one else is there because eventually someone else will be in there.

*When most of us started working from home the people in the building would gather in meeting rooms once a day because 'that is how we always do it'. One day there was 10 of us wired in from home meeting with 6 sitting in a room at the building when a team leader (not mine) said "we're in a virtual meeting, why are we all gathered in this room?", she exited the room followed by four others. In about five minutes we restarted the meeting, from 16 different locations. It was an adjustment time, figuring out the new way (at least for a while) of doing things. The team leaders still physically meet almost daily, but with only 4 or 5 in a meeting room designed for 35ish, they can easily keep physical space.

I think the way to use masks is to enforce them in shops and on public transport systems, where you often have less personal space.
You have given various good examples how people should act on their workplace, I fear that in many places they stop caring about this stuff once their are at work and behind closed doors...

 

[jmdirt]

It's airborne transmission if you have prolonged close contact with a person - Walking down the street doesn't give you prolonged close contact - My argument is that people who wear masks walking down the street, fail to wear them at workplaces where they have prolonged close contact - You follow the guidelines used by contact tracers and one of their KEY criteria for follow up is 15 minutes of face to face contact with a person - I'll add that if COVID 19 could be easily spread by airborne transmissions nearly HALF the world would be infected.

First, we agree that wearing a mask walking down the street yet not wearing one inside with close person to person contact is bassacckwards. But, second, you asserted that hand washing was more important than distancing which is just not the case, you seem to have moved away from that now though. Obviously, physical distancing, wearing masks, and hand washing in combination is the best plan.

C19 transmission IS airborne unless the infected person spits directly into your mouth/nose. Several people have posted links and images supporting this.
This was one:
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117

 

[jmdirt]

My understanding is an airborne COVID-19 virus ejected from an infected person sneezing will usually fall to the ground within 2 metres in still air (such as usually the case indoors). It is also true that you will normally require prolonged exposure to get infected.

My understanding is that it depends on the size of the droplets (larger fall more quickly, while smaller (aerosols) 'float around' more.

Fig.4 in the Airborne Transmission section:
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117

We understand the same about viral load, but I don't want any, not even one, of those spiky little bugs in my lungs!

EDIT: Korin brought up a good point when talking about allergies a while back in that if a person with seasonal allergies is also C19+ they could be sneezing a lot of C19.

 

[Sciatic]

My understanding is that it depends on the size of the droplets (larger fall more quickly, while smaller (aerosols) 'float around' more.

Fig.4 in the Airborne Transmission section:
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117

We understand the same about viral load, but I don't want any, not even one, of those spiky little bugs in my lungs!

EDIT: Korin brought up a good point when talking about allergies a while back in that if a person with seasonal allergies is also C19+ they could be sneezing a lot of C19.

“Sneezing a lot” That would be me (though I don’t think I’ve had Covid), plus coughing a lot b/c of chronic sinus issues post-nasal drip. Even if I felt safe myself taking the bus to work (when office work restarts) I still will avoid it for a long time b/c I know the coughing will freak people out!

 

[Chris Gadsden]

So what happens if you can't pay the bill?

You don’t pay it. We don‘t have debtors prisons here.

 

[movingtarget]

You don’t pay it. We don‘t have debtors prisons here.

Don't some states jail people that don't pay Child Support ?

 

[djpbaltimore]

At this point, people should get the best masks they can get.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1272187720379572226

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/FaceTheNation/status/1272187720379572226

 

[Koronin]

“Sneezing a lot” That would be me (though I don’t think I’ve had Covid), plus coughing a lot b/c of chronic sinus issues post-nasal drip. Even if I felt safe myself taking the bus to work (when office work restarts) I still will avoid it for a long time b/c I know the coughing will freak people out!

Same here. Not exactly helpful in this Covid world. Post-nasal drip causes coughing and it's definitely not covid related.

 

[movingtarget]

One metre only ?

Scientists report flaws in WHO-funded study on 2-metre distancing

Mistakes mean findings should not be used as evidence for relaxing rule, say professors

www.theguardian.com

 

[Koronin]

It appears scientists are looking to see if the polio and teburculosis vaccines provide any protection at all against Covid-19. Unfortunately the article is in the Washington Post and behind a paywall. So I can't read it and it would be pointless to post an article here that is behind a paywall. However, if anyone comes across an article elsewhere that says something about this it may be worth reading.

 

[Merckx index]

It appears scientists are looking to see if the polio and teburculosis vaccines provide any protection at all against Covid-19. Unfortunately the article is in the Washington Post and behind a paywall. So I can't read it and it would be pointless to post an article here that is behind a paywall. However, if anyone comes across an article elsewhere that says something about this it may be worth reading.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lipiro...e-curb-the-coronavirus-pandemic/#63e54166332a

Here’s the rationale. The oral polio vaccine – a weakened version of the live virus – is expected to trigger a general immune response to any foreign organism. During this time, the body will develop antibodies specific to the pathogen, such as the novel coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2. Researchers theorize that this temporary immune boost could confer a safeguard against viruses for which the vaccine wasn’t initially designed to defend against.

A research article on the concept:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32437659/?from_term=polio+vaccine+SARS&from_pos=4