Or to test positive for EPO, and claim he was using it to recover from C19.
-
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
Or to test positive for EPO, and claim he was using it to recover from C19.
Actually, I don't doubt this. That + airconditioning --> places with high temperatures and air conditioning (see also Saudi-Arabia, UAE, etc.) --> people staying mostly indoors, in airconditioned but poorly ventilated rooms = problems
www.nytimes.com
239 Experts With One Big Claim: The Coronavirus Is Airborne (Published 2020)
The W.H.O. has resisted mounting evidence that viral particles floating indoors are infectious, some scientists say. The agency maintains the research is still inconclusive.
This was discussed on a segment of "The HardWire with Del Bigtree." It sounds like T-cell immunity is more effective against the virus than antibodies.
If Antibodies Fall Short of Covid-19 Immunity, Call the T-cells
[updated July] The missing key to Covid-19 immunity is within our reach.
medium.com
Last edited:
It makes sense that increasing oxygen/oxygen utilization would help with a respiratory disease. EPO also has some anti-inflammatory affect (maybe simply because of more oxygen).Hmmm- it seems EPO could be helpful for C-19
EPO doping drug appears to ease severe cases of COVID-19
The EPO doping drug provides relief in severe cases of corona. It also seems to protect patients against the neurological effects of corona.innovationorigins.com
I was unable to read the article in the link because the subscribe box kept popping up, but here is another that might be similar:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-epo-covid-.html
Some of us have been ranting about this for months already. Its nice that 239 experts are drawing more attention, but its nothing new. I think that I first read about aerosols vs. droplets in April (size, ability/times to 'float' in the air...). Its probably good to emphasize it to encourage people to wear face coverings though.Actually, I don't doubt this. That + airconditioning --> places with high temperatures and air conditioning (see also Saudi-Arabia, UAE, etc.) --> people staying mostly indoors, in airconditioned but poorly ventilated rooms = problems
239 Experts With One Big Claim: The Coronavirus Is Airborne (Published 2020)
The W.H.O. has resisted mounting evidence that viral particles floating indoors are infectious, some scientists say. The agency maintains the research is still inconclusive.
If COVID19 could be spread by aerosols then many more people would be infected - Controlled experiments in indoor settings have little relevance to general environmental conditions that govern our life. Yes, some diseases such as legionnaires disease, tuberculosis are spread by aerosols.
Keep in the mind that the "experts" on the hierarchy of the Coronavirus task force have given misinformation on the mask issue. Remember back a few months ago, Fauci went on "60 minutes" and said people don't need to wear masks detailing the science that masks do not protect against respiratory viruses. At about the same time, thee Surgeon General said masks also don't work and specifically pointed out that even the "N95 mask won't protect citizens" and "increases the chance of getting a disease."
Since then, Fauci has retracted and basically has implied the whole thing was a lie so people wouldn't go out and buy up all the masks. Lol. We've yet to hear from Adams on whether or not he was sincere or also intentionally misleading:
So, how can anyone take these guys serious with nonsense like this? The task force has become a clown show.
And now we have Americans at each other's throats over masks. People are harassed for not wearing a mask...people are harassed for wearing a mask. Go search YouTube for videos of people fighting each other over the wearing/not wearing of masks. You've got physical confrontations and downright brawls in many stores with people fighting one another or fighting store employees, and just plain chaos.
I've had a couple of times while out running on the streets where cars have pulled up along side of me yelling obscenities to wear a mask! And just yesterday at the gym, a middle-aged women was chewing out a young guy in the cardio section for not wearing mask!Though the gym suggests masks but does not require them...I thought WTH? And the MSM just keeps harping on & on about how terrible people are for not wearing masks at the beaches, parks, outdoor gatherings, etc.
Americans have gone completely insane over this mask issue...I've never seen anything like this before. In fact, this whole country is falling apart with so much hostilities. It would be nice to go back to the time when you only wore a mask for Halloween. Lol.
Last edited:
Uhm, what?
So how is it being spread if not through the air? Certainly droplets are more 'potent' than aerosols, but droplets fall more quickly. Imagine the amount of aerosols floating around in a work space after and eight hour day.
Controlled experiments in indoor settings have little relevance? Many people work inside, restaurant/bar opening didn't work because they're inside. Testing these environments IS relevant to people's lives. Sure its not relevant to my house or my mountain bike ride, but it is relevant to indoor spaces that are part of my life (ie: grocery store).
Some diseases are/can be spread by aerosols, but not C19?
Please don't type that its only getting into peoples' lung because they aren't washing their hands enough.
Let's put aside any outside info and just use some logic: if you wear a face covering less of your droplets/aerosols can get out. Plus, as an added benefit, less of other people's droplets/aerosols can get in. If everyone is wearing a face covering there will be less droplet/aerosol exchange. Its really pretty simple.Keep in the mind that the "experts" on the hierarchy of the Coronavirus task force have given misinformation on the mask issue. Remember back a few months ago, Fauci went on "60 minutes" and said people don't need to wear masks detailing the science that masks do not protect against respiratory viruses. At about the same time, thee Surgeon General said masks also don't work and specifically pointed out that even the "N95 mask won't protect citizens" and "increases the chance of getting a disease."
Since then, Fauci has retracted and basically has implied the whole thing was a lie so people wouldn't go out and buy up all the masks. Lol. We've yet to hear from Adams on whether or not he was sincere or also intentionally misleading:
View: https://youtu.be/fqk_vnqKvBA
So, how can anyone take these guys serious with nonsense like this? The task force has become a clown show.
And now we have Americans at each other's throats over masks. People are harassed for not wearing a mask...people are harassed for wearing a mask. Go search YouTube for videos of people fighting each other over the wearing/not wearing of masks. You've got physical confrontations and downright brawls in many stores with people fighting one another or fighting store employees, and just plain chaos.
I've had a couple of times while out running on the streets where cars have pulled up along side of me yelling obscenities to wear a mask! And just yesterday at the gym, a middle-aged women was chewing out a young guy in the cardio section for not wearing mask!Though the gym suggests masks but does not require them...I thought WTH? And the MSM just keeps harping on & on about how terrible people are for not wearing masks at the beaches, parks, outdoor gatherings, etc.
Americans have gone completely insane over this mask issue...I've never seen anything like this before. In fact, this whole country is falling apart with so much hostilities. It would be nice to go back to the time when you only wore a mask for Halloween. Lol.
It's really that simple? I guess you didn't watch very closely what Surgeon General Adams had to say? Who's the experts here? Any of us or Adams?
View: https://youtu.be/C1ODBTdNiG0
Last edited:
People here have also been slightly irritated that there was a sudden change from "masks don't help" to "150 Euro if you don't wear a mask". But the virologists simply explained they had been wrong, that was pretty much it. There have been some demonstrations against the measures taken in general, but that's over now. The issue in the US is obviously that wearing a mask or not is considered a political statement.
Yes, it really is that simple. its not about 'who the expert is' its about common sense. Also, at this point that common sense is supported by a growing body of data to support it.
Droplets and aerosols are different - Droplets are smaller particles which may end up furniture, door handles, buttons etc while aerosols are bigger particles that stay in the air and could be breathed in by people - Though there is only limited evidence that COVID 19 infections are caused by aerosols - I'll also add that masks are misused by many - People walk around in public wearing a mask with a 'badge of honour.' Walking down the street or strolling in the park hardly needs a mask BUT yet these same people don't wear masks in their workplaces, where you are in close confines with others for longer periods of time.
I suggest you do some further research to see what diseases are spread by aerosols - The biggest issue with COVID 19 is it can be spread by asymptomatic people which makes it so difficult to contain - So it's not just a case of identifying a person who is coughing and spluttering - Finally, your last sentence makes no sense at all.
Last edited:
I was told many years ago by the top cycling coach and elite team director some pretty simple,brutal advice about advancing to the next level in bike racing it went something like this and lasted this long..and my answers were of zero importance..
Are you riding @300+ plus per week?..if I answered yes it would have been increase your tempo..
Lose 10-12 pounds
Keep racing as often as possible..
Come back for more advice once you achieve these goals..
Brutal,Honest simple,straight forward..
Covid is similar..wash your hands,wash them again
Clean everything
Wear a mask
Stay away from people
Don't go into a group setting at all cost.
If you feel ill isolate.
If Americans followed the simple stuff first things wouldn't look like this..
There is not a liposuction solution for Covid 19 on the immediate horizon..
Hard work and discipline are what is readily available.
Talked to a fellow American yesterday..we shared a Belgian story that was the same experienced at separate times..schit weather..cold drizzly..just plain nasty..the Belgians all finished up their coffee and were ready to train..in my case I looked at them w California eyes and in disappointment and disbelief couldn't believe that the conditions didn't warrant a day off or rollers at a minimum..one kid pointed outside and said..
" You want to be a hard man? Riding and training in this will make you a hard man"
During really nasty rides one of the team supporters used to yell out.. " the guy that you are going to beat is home sitting on his sofa because he is too soft to train in these conditions.. "
Sounds real cowboy,but that story repeats all over Europe..not so much in S. California...
America needs to get back to basics
Are you riding @300+ plus per week?..if I answered yes it would have been increase your tempo..
Lose 10-12 pounds
Keep racing as often as possible..
Come back for more advice once you achieve these goals..
Brutal,Honest simple,straight forward..
Covid is similar..wash your hands,wash them again
Clean everything
Wear a mask
Stay away from people
Don't go into a group setting at all cost.
If you feel ill isolate.
If Americans followed the simple stuff first things wouldn't look like this..
There is not a liposuction solution for Covid 19 on the immediate horizon..
Hard work and discipline are what is readily available.
Talked to a fellow American yesterday..we shared a Belgian story that was the same experienced at separate times..schit weather..cold drizzly..just plain nasty..the Belgians all finished up their coffee and were ready to train..in my case I looked at them w California eyes and in disappointment and disbelief couldn't believe that the conditions didn't warrant a day off or rollers at a minimum..one kid pointed outside and said..
" You want to be a hard man? Riding and training in this will make you a hard man"
During really nasty rides one of the team supporters used to yell out.. " the guy that you are going to beat is home sitting on his sofa because he is too soft to train in these conditions.. "
Sounds real cowboy,but that story repeats all over Europe..not so much in S. California...
America needs to get back to basics
It's amazing how basic knowledge and common sense become debatable while from time to time "experts" reinvent the wheel. It has been proven that the flu, which is highly contagious can spread through aerosols, why not assume corona , which is highly contagious can't? Even if it's not significant for corona, why not use every method of protection/prevention? In the end this illness has no cure so why not wear a mask, avoid closed spaces, wash your hands (even if you don't wash them every five minutes educate yourself to not touch your face, mouth, eyes until you do)? The mask debate is as ridiculous as it gets. Sure it will not save you if you are in a hospital small room with 10 covid patients coughing but it will lower the risk of getting it while you are in a closed space with a few asymptomatics. In the end that's all you can do to protect yourself and those around you. So why do we even discuss this?
You shouldn't suggest any further research until you check your own assertions...you have droplets and aerosols backward which highlights your misunderstanding of what is happening.
Asymptomatic spread is the reason that masks are important because people who don't know that they are sick can unknowingly spread their C19 to others. Are you arguing for and against protecting people?
EDIT: ranting about improper mask use doesn't change the benefit of proper mask use.
Last edited:
If y'all wanted to argue about airborne vs droplet transmission, you missed your calling. It is a staple argument in infectious disease circles. Remember that I said biomedical sciences does not routinely provide tidy answers. I personally think flu can transmit by aerosols, but that is still not universally agreed upon and flu has been studied for decades. As Yaco notes, it is a bit of semantics and not everybody even agrees what the size cutoff should be (e.g. 5 vs 10). There will be no definitive answer about CoV. But I am inclined to RtD's thinking that we should probably assume that it does.
As for Adams, I don't think we should overstate his expertise. He is an anesthesiologist by practice. His one big foray into infectious disease during the Hiv outbreak in Indiana was pretty disastrous. But it did show that he was a team player and would not rock the boat for the pols. That and having the right connections is how he became surgeon general. There is legit grounds to replace the whole task force, including Fauci and most of the cdc leadership, for the dubious mask messaging and other missteps. I think Scott Gottlieb would be a good choice to lead. That guy has been a straight shooter throughout.
As for Adams, I don't think we should overstate his expertise. He is an anesthesiologist by practice. His one big foray into infectious disease during the Hiv outbreak in Indiana was pretty disastrous. But it did show that he was a team player and would not rock the boat for the pols. That and having the right connections is how he became surgeon general. There is legit grounds to replace the whole task force, including Fauci and most of the cdc leadership, for the dubious mask messaging and other missteps. I think Scott Gottlieb would be a good choice to lead. That guy has been a straight shooter throughout.
I agree with you about Scott Gottlieb. The host of the 7pm (est) CNBC show weeknights has had him on most nights to answer questions. I've been listening to him. I'd certainly be considering him for Surgeon General.
I really don't want to argue the ins and outs of transmission, I want to stress the importance of keeping our C19 to ourselves as much as possible (reduce transmission). Wear a mask.
EDIT: clarification: no matter what you think is the 'main' type of transmission (aerosols, droplets, contact...), the importance of keeping our bodily fluids to ourselves is the same.
You are correct about droplet size and definition, but yaco claimed that droplets are the smaller and aerosols are the larger. No matter what cut-off you use, that is backward, aerosols are the smaller/floatier. I read one study about the 'old' SARS that used 50 as the line, but most C19 research seems to use below 5 is aerosols, above 5 is droplets (it gets messy as droplets dry and get smaller...).
Last edited:
Masks probably won't protect you much from other people who aren't wearing them. They will protect other people from you. That's what Fauci and others missed at the time, they were concerned with giving people advice on how to protect themselves. This is different, it's a way of protecting others.
I have my criticisms of Fauci, he certainly was late in realizing the danger, but so were an awful lot of other people. He was right about HCQ (that the evidence did not warrant people's taking it without a doctor's advice); he appears to have been right about asymptomatics (roughly half of infected people); and he also appears to have been right about the IFR, mortality rate, 0.5 - 1.0%.
Fauci's biggest problem--and this will be inherited by his successor, if one should come anytime soon--is that he can't criticize his clown boss without getting into a lot of trouble. Fauci constantly has to make his points diplomatically, e.g., when Trump said he wanted to open the country by Easter, Fauci said that idea was "aspirational", which is diplo-speak for "insane".
You think wearing masks should be optional? I guess you run red lights and routinely exceed the speed limit, too, right? I mean, anyone can see when the intersection or road is clear ahead, why should we have to submit to what the government tells us to do? Maybe you *** and piss wherever you are, too? Why should we be compelled to find a bathroom in public, after all, the mess we leave behind won't affect us.
Do you ever eat in a restaurant? Do you think restaurants should be subject to government regulations for sanitation? Why should they care if people get sick from eating their food?
Bad news for older people like me: a vaccine may not have that much effect for us. That would mean we depend on younger people getting vaccinated, and these polls showing large percentages of people won't take the vaccine doesn't give me much comfort. I'm really beginning to think I may have to stay in lockdown for the rest of my life.
https://onezero.medium.com/the-coronavirus-vaccine-may-not-work-on-the-elderly-3fc176f75751
‘They feel invincible’: how California’s coronavirus plan went wrong
The state was the first to issue a shelter-in-place order – now a few outbreaks have sparked an explosion, with 6,000- 7,000 new cases a day over the past week
'Trump is in a dreamland': what the US should do now on Covid-19
With hospitals filling and PPE running low, it’s like April all over again. Here’s what Americans – and their leaders – must do
The precautionary principle seems the best way to approach this: unless you're sure it doesn't transmit via aerosols, assume it does. The WHO seems to apply the opposite approach: until it is proven covid-19 does transmit via aerosols, assume it does not. I find that a very strange line of reasoning. Such thinking may be applied to wild theories, but not for something that is at least very well possible.
Chris Gadsden
BANNED
‘They feel invincible’: how California’s coronavirus plan went wrong
The state was the first to issue a shelter-in-place order – now a few outbreaks have sparked an explosion, with 6,000- 7,000 new cases a day over the past weekwww.theguardian.com
“While the disease may have also spread amid the massive protests against police brutality, epidemiologists aren’t connecting big outbreaks to the demonstrations.”
Uh-huh. Awful suspicious timing. I guess COVID can tell the difference between righteous and non-righteousnes. Have to laugh at that one..
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
Paris - Roubaix 2024, one day monument, April 7- Started by Dreginald
- Replies: 2K
-
-
-
Tour of the Alps 2024 (April 15 - 19)- Started by Devil's Elbow
- Replies: 276
-
Volta Ciclista a Catalunya 2024 (March 18-24)- Started by Devil's Elbow
- Replies: 2K
-
De Ronde van Vlaanderen (270.8 km), 2024 March 31 (Sunday)- Started by Netserk
- Replies: 1K
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram