Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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Mark Twain nailed it: "It isn't what people don't know that's the problem. It's what they know that just isn't so."

Taking that as a starting point, let's consider Trump's recent interview with Chris Wallace of Fox News. Anything involving Trump is political, but I will stick to just comments about the pandemic that are entirely relevant to this thread.

First, they got into an argument about mortality rate. Wallace said America’s was one of the highest in the world; Trump said it was one of the lowest. Neither seemed to understand (and Wallace should have) that there are several different mortality rates. There is the case fatality rate, CFR, deaths/confirmed cases, which Trump mentioned, but shouldn’t have, because it’s the wrong one to support his argument. America’s CFR is lower than that of most European countries, but not as low as that of many other countries. And it’s not a good figure to compare, anyway, because cases are very dependent on how much testing is carried out, which I will return to later.

Second, there is the infection fatality rate, IFR, infections/cases, which appears to be fairly low in the U.S. This is why Trump keeps saying that 99% of the cases are harmless. It’s true that 99% or more of cases do not result in death, though if we add in hospitalizations and long-haulers, we could say that at least 2-3% of cases are not harmless. But this rate seems to be about the same in most other countries, so it’s not one that likely reflects major differences among nations. Furthermore, since it’s based on antibody tests, which aren’t always accurate, and which haven’t been carried out comprehensively in the U.S., it would be purely speculative to compare America’s IFR with that of other countries.

Then there is the overall mortality rate, deaths/millions of population. This is the best indicator to use, because it’s not dependent on testing at all, or on any estimates of the number of infected. This is the one Wallace was referring to, and he was correct, America’s overall rate is one of the highest in the world. As we have discussed here before, it’s only lower than that of about half a dozen European countries, which suffered massive numbers of deaths early in the pandemic, when they were caught unprepared (their death rates have dropped considerably since then, and the U.S. may very well overtake some of them in a few months). And these countries have much higher population densities than the U.S., except Sweden, which didn’t lock down. There are probably some third world countries that have higher rates, but have under-reported deaths, but comparing the U.S. to them (as Trump did, saying we’re better than Mexico), is hardly a point in America’s favor.

Then there’s testing. When Wallace pointed out the recent spike in confirmed cases, Trump argued, as he has before, that this is because of increased testing. He claimed the U.S. tests more than any other nation in the world. That’s not quite true. China has tested more. More to the point, a number of countries have tested more per millions of population than the U.S. America is up there in tests, but it’s not the leader, and even if it were, it would not be a point in its favor. A lot of countries that tested a lot more earlier in the pandemic have greatly reduced their testing because they have the virus under control, or cases down to very low levels. The high levels of testing in the U.S. actually mostly reflect the fact that America has not brought the virus under control. It’s not something to brag about.

But what about Trump’s claim that the U.S. has more cases because we test more? Almost every epidemiologist in the world will point to the increased positivity rate as evidence that more positive tests are mostly the result of more infections, not the result of simply testing more. However, while this is almost certainly the case, arguments based on positivity are complex, because in theory, there could be other ways to explain increases in this value. These alternatives are very unlikely, particularly when we see enormous increases in positivity in a relatively short time in many communities, but the complexity allows people like Trump to muddy the waters, and argue a different cause. It’s very difficult to provide a slamdunk, air-tight argument based on positivity.

Fortunately, we don’t have to. There is a very simple way to avoid it. We can just look at deaths. If the number of infected individuals were constant, i.e., the number of people getting infected every day were the same, the number of deaths every day should also be the same. But that isn’t the case. Deaths are increasing. Not as much, relative to new cases, as occurred last April, and that’s a puzzle I mentioned here recently—the CFR is decreasing. But the number of deaths are going up. That has to reflect an increase in the number of infected individuals, unless the IFR has gone up. But it would be highly unlikely that the IFR went up while the CFR went down. On the one hand, you would have to argue that people most at risk, such as those in nursing homes, were infected more often than before. This seems very unlikely by itself. But you would simultaneously have to argue that these people were less likely to be tested than before. That again strains credibility.

In any case, the increase in deaths stands by itself as an indictment of the system. It’s evidence that the effect of the virus is increasing. And remember, the goal is not stasis. Simply holding the number of deaths constant would not be controlling the virus. The idea is to reduce them, and eventually eliminate them. So when we see deaths increasing, we see an approach, or approaches, that are failing.
 
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As the resident mask ranterer:

I'm viewing all aspects of C19, including mask wearing very much like other huge topics:
-If most infectious disease experts encourage masks, but one TV gynecologist questions masks: "the jury is split, I'm not risking it until they all agree"...
-If most climate experts generally agree about climate change, but Dr. Phil muses about the cold winter being a sign that there is no warming: "the scientist don't agree...".
-If most planetary experts say the earth is round(ish), but one hot air balloon guy claims to have seen the edge: "there isn't consensus...".
-"At first they said don't wear mask, now they're saying wear masks, they can't make up their mind so I'm not wearing one." No, we wouldn't want to learn as we battle a novel virus. I'm assuming these people also prefer having a hole drilled in their brain to treat emotional issues?

1,000 experts agree, but the guy at the corner store has a theory so I'll go with that...WTF?!

Even though likely related, the above doesn't account for conspiracy issues. Brain drilling anyone?

It may be a bit like wearing a leather hairnet at Paris Roubaix. It’s great so long as you don’t crash and hit your head.
 

Chris Gadsden

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Mark Twain nailed it: "It isn't what people don't know that's the problem. It's what they know that just isn't so."

Taking that as a starting point, let's consider Trump's recent interview with Chris Wallace of Fox News. Anything involving Trump is political, but I will stick to just comments about the pandemic that are entirely relevant to this thread.

First, they got into an argument about mortality rate. Wallace said America’s was one of the highest in the world; Trump said it was one of the lowest. Neither seemed to understand (and Wallace should have) that there are several different mortality rates. There is the case fatality rate, CFR, deaths/confirmed cases, which Trump mentioned, but shouldn’t have, because it’s the wrong one to support his argument. America’s CFR is lower than that of most European countries, but not as low as that of many other countries. And it’s not a good figure to compare, anyway, because cases are very dependent on how much testing is carried out, which I will return to later.

Second, there is the infection fatality rate, IFR, infections/cases, which appears to be fairly low in the U.S. This is why Trump keeps saying that 99% of the cases are harmless. It’s true that 99% or more of cases do not result in death, though if we add in hospitalizations and long-haulers, we could say that at least 2-3% of cases are not harmless. But this rate seems to be about the same in most other countries, so it’s not one that likely reflects major differences among nations. Furthermore, since it’s based on antibody tests, which aren’t always accurate, and which haven’t been carried out comprehensively in the U.S., it would be purely speculative to compare America’s IFR with that of other countries.

Then there is the overall mortality rate, deaths/millions of population. This is the best indicator to use, because it’s not dependent on testing at all, or on any estimates of the number of infected. This is the one Wallace was referring to, and he was correct, America’s overall rate is one of the highest in the world. As we have discussed here before, it’s only lower than that of about half a dozen European countries, which suffered massive numbers of deaths early in the pandemic, when they were caught unprepared (their death rates have dropped considerably since then, and the U.S. may very well overtake some of them in a few months). And these countries have much higher population densities than the U.S., except Sweden, which didn’t lock down. There are probably some third world countries that have higher rates, but have under-reported deaths, but comparing the U.S. to them (as Trump did, saying we’re better than Mexico), is hardly a point in America’s favor.

Then there’s testing. When Wallace pointed out the recent spike in confirmed cases, Trump argued, as he has before, that this is because of increased testing. He claimed the U.S. tests more than any other nation in the world. That’s not quite true. China has tested more. More to the point, a number of countries have tested more per millions of population than the U.S. America is up there in tests, but it’s not the leader, and even if it were, it would not be a point in its favor. A lot of countries that tested a lot more earlier in the pandemic have greatly reduced their testing because they have the virus under control, or cases down to very low levels. The high levels of testing in the U.S. actually mostly reflect the fact that America has not brought the virus under control. It’s not something to brag about.

But what about Trump’s claim that the U.S. has more cases because we test more? Almost every epidemiologist in the world will point to the increased positivity rate as evidence that more positive tests are mostly the result of more infections, not the result of simply testing more. However, while this is almost certainly the case, arguments based on positivity are complex, because in theory, there could be other ways to explain increases in this value. These alternatives are very unlikely, particularly when we see enormous increases in positivity in a relatively short time in many communities, but the complexity allows people like Trump to muddy the waters, and argue a different cause. It’s very difficult to provide a slamdunk, air-tight argument based on positivity.

Fortunately, we don’t have to. There is a very simple way to avoid it. We can just look at deaths. If the number of infected individuals were constant, i.e., the number of people getting infected every day were the same, the number of deaths every day should also be the same. But that isn’t the case. Deaths are increasing. Not as much, relative to new cases, as occurred last April, and that’s a puzzle I mentioned here recently—the CFR is decreasing. But the number of deaths are going up. That has to reflect an increase in the number of infected individuals, unless the IFR has gone up. But it would be highly unlikely that the IFR went up while the CFR went down. On the one hand, you would have to argue that people most at risk, such as those in nursing homes, were infected more often than before. This seems very unlikely by itself. But you would simultaneously have to argue that these people were less likely to be tested than before. That again strains credibility.

In any case, the increase in deaths stands by itself as an indictment of the system. It’s evidence that the effect of the virus is increasing. And remember, the goal is not stasis. Simply holding the number of deaths constant would not be controlling the virus. The idea is to reduce them, and eventually eliminate them. So when we see deaths increasing, we see an approach, or approaches, that are failing.

A couple of thigs: this assumes the cause of death Country to Country is measured the same. It’s not. It falls back to “did the patient die with COVID or from COVID.”

Secondly, until about July 4th, the numbers of dead calculated on a 7 day rolling average were down from a high in April of more than 2,200 per day to a little over 500. The US has ticked up since 7/4 to around 800 but it’s nowhere near where it was.
 
As the resident mask ranterer:

I'm viewing all aspects of C19, including mask wearing very much like other huge topics:
-If most infectious disease experts encourage masks, but one TV gynecologist questions masks: "the jury is split, I'm not risking it until they all agree"...
-If most climate experts generally agree about climate change, but Dr. Phil muses about the cold winter being a sign that there is no warming: "the scientist don't agree...".
-If most planetary experts say the earth is round(ish), but one hot air balloon guy claims to have seen the edge: "there isn't consensus...".
-"At first they said don't wear mask, now they're saying wear masks, they can't make up their mind so I'm not wearing one." No, we wouldn't want to learn as we battle a novel virus. I'm assuming these people also prefer having a hole drilled in their brain to treat emotional issues?

1,000 experts agree, but the guy at the corner store has a theory so I'll go with that...WTF?!

Even though likely related, the above doesn't account for conspiracy issues. Brain drilling anyone?
You are so right on. My fantasy Is that folks who have a following and put out their unsupported, contradictory claims would be required to put down a wager That anyone (me) could bet on, and get the odds that match the probability of their claim. “You say that COVID is no worse than the flu, even with the evidence we have now? Fine put up the money I place a bet, and in two years when we have very solid data, you’ll pay out at 100 to 1 if you’re wrong.” There should be consequences for making repeated unlikely or outrageous claims and getting it wrong!
But that’s definitely not our society, particularly in the present moment.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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You are so right on. My fantasy Is that folks who have a following and put out their unsupported, contradictory claims would be required to put down a wager That anyone (me) could bet on, and get the odds that match the probability of their claim. “You say that COVID is no worse than the flu, even with the evidence we have now? Fine put up the money I place a bet, and in two years when we have very solid data, you’ll pay out at 100 to 1 if you’re wrong.” There should be consequences for making repeated unlikely or outrageous claims and getting it wrong!
But that’s definitely not our society, particularly in the present moment.

Yep. WHO said as late as January 14 there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission. That was a big one.
 
Yep. WHO said as late as January 14 there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission. That was a big one.
again back to bikes..who is still riding a Huffy? Downtube shifters anyone? And my start up favorite..the Cinelli R series..had this internal paw that pushed against about 20 % of the radius of the handlebar..it was designed to look cool w the big Cinnelli C prominent on the front..no visible bo!t!!!
how about toe straps and cleats on leather sole cycling shoes!!
It is what was available at the time,technology and innovation and information improves..
So the chant about anything said in error in Covid observations in January..evolution..as it goes..and we certainly don't..we really really really don't want to go into a January time line..I think that there was official US praise for the swell job China was doing..I think that the word trust was used by the American official to describe Chinese efforts..
And as far as everything being outdated..I who wants to see funny high school haircut photos!!embarrassing for many..but as far as early misquotes..no chases..only 15..it's under control..it will go away when it gets hot outside..it will disappear..
Strike that last one..it's only a few days old!! My bad..I better stick with how much better current shoe warmers are or how Gore tex fixed..everything..or why synthetic chamois made me able to stop major investments in Boil Ease..and Bag Balm..

 
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Chris Gadsden

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again back to bikes..who is still riding a Huffy? Downtube shifters anyone? And my start up favorite..the Cinelli R series..had this internal paw that pushed against about 20 % of the radius of the handlebar..it was designed to look cool w the big Cinnelli C prominent on the front..no visible bo!t!!!
how about toe straps and cleats on leather sole cycling shoes!!
It is what was available at the time,technology and innovation and information improves..
So the chant about anything said in error in Covid observations in January..evolution..as it goes..and we certainly don't..we really really really don't want to go into a January time line..I think that there was official US praise for the swell job China was doing..I think that the word trust was used by the American official to describe Chinese efforts..
And as far as everything being outdated..I who wants to see funny high school haircut photos!!embarrassing for many..but as far as early misquotes..no chases..only 15..it's under control..it will go away when it gets hot outside..it will disappear..
Strike that last one..it's only a few days old!! My bad..I better stick with how much better current shoe warmers are or how Gore tex fixed..everything..or why synthetic chamois made me able to stop major investments in Boil Ease..and Bag Balm..


Well you might be the last guy on the planet who thinks that WHO didn’t actually know on January 14 that the virus could be transmitted human to human.

Follow the money, son.
 
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Chris,we obviously disagree fundamentally about most of the pandemic chaos.
I have worn myself out w the war thing,but not 100%. It was announced that America was at war with the Corona virus. As many worldwide know,The U.S.is no stranger to war,we have iconic actions as a nation and symbols of sacrifice and success when we have been victorious..
Rosie the riveter..people eating differently to divert our supplies for the combat effort.
this war has been different,unique
unorganized and disastrous,deadly.
but again that is subjective,obviously,because some say,even this week that the world envies our efforts and that all signs point to our victory,and they add that we have experienced little or insignificant failure. Let's leave that for history.
What we do know,facts on the ground as Americans battle Covid 19. Is that for the first time in modern warfare history,Americans have been asked to build their own battleships,planes,tanks,and sew and wear a random national uniforms.and the absolute parallel..Americans have been asked to buy,barrow steal or make critical gas masks.
Some things in this war are critical,biological sciences that protect those in front lines of battle and civilians. Testing and protective gear..never in American history would civilians,down to individual households be left to fend for themselves in order to survive w no money or expertise.
And state by state..States of dysfunction..individual municipality asked to due worldwide surveillance and intelligence gathering w little to no national coordination or communication. Daily war briefings cancelled for months w petty infighting and unpopular reviews and TV rating as the reason for a complete suspension of Covid war briefings..again only history will know if not sending information to the trenches equals a battle blunder that is significant.
The conclusion I come to is complicated,but it's a derivative of my feelings that the American leadership doesn't want to win,their every action is counterproductive to the cause..
And still more people die daily from the virus..
US less than @5 % of the world population and and over 25% of the casualties..but this is a world wide war..everyone at war,at the same time,with the same enemy and the United States is getting slaughtered and humiliated through our own actions..
To think for a second that US leadership put respect and a heavy weight value to anything that the World Health organization said or did,does is silly, the WHO is yet another place that the US didn't get information from,again history will document later,when death and emotions have subsided,who knew what,when and what actions they did or didn't take. Same w the other war info..Russian and Chinese hackers after Covid computer data on research and drugs..the other bounty issue of U.S. soldiers looks like it will also be settled by history.
I look at this like the dumbest battle plan I have ever seen and on top of everything else incompetent execution,dereliction of duty throughput
 
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And to your follow the money..
No liability immunity should be dreamed of seeing the contempt many have adopted for their workers and customers,fellow citizens..
Vivid examples are bars and restaurants allowing patrons to enter and engage in parties gone wild,maskless and without care..if Covid infections result..those bars, nightclubs,ect should be liable for damages..meat packing plants? Absolutely responsible for death and sickness in their workforce.
need to be held legally accountable.
also in the money trail people taking loans intended as Covid war time relief aid ,acts of greed and deception..we need trials as soon as possible..
 
WHO have definitely not covered themselves in glory over this for a number of reasons, but let's put this in perspective. The virus was only sequenced on January 12. On January 14, one of their US experts said that we needed to prepare ourselves for 'mass human transmission'. And by January 22, they openly issued a statement that human transmission was occurring. That the West basically sat with their thumbs up their rears for another 2 months is not the fault of the WHO.

https://www.reuters.com/article/chi...pread-its-warning-all-hospitals-idUSL8N29F48F
 

Chris Gadsden

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And to your follow the money..
No liability immunity should be dreamed of seeing the contempt many have adopted for their workers and customers,fellow citizens..
Vivid examples are bars and restaurants allowing patrons to enter and engage in parties gone wild,maskless and without care..if Covid infections result..those bars, nightclubs,ect should be liable for damages..meat packing plants? Absolutely responsible for death and sickness in their workforce.
need to be held legally accountable.
also in the money trail people taking loans intended as Covid war time relief aid ,acts of greed and deception..we need trials as soon as possible..

If employees can prove serious and willful negligence then they should bring suit.

What probably should have happened is all essential employees should have refused to work as you suggest. Truck drivers, meat packers, nurses, grocery workers and the like. For safety sake.

Grocers, Hospital execs, Trucking companies ought to have their asses sued off. We need trials now.
 
Because Americans haven't changed and Churchill's comment, "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing --after they've tried everything else", is still true.
Its amazing, almost scary, quotes from 20, 50, 100 years ago still ring so true.
There's no evidence Churchill ever said that:


"I wish I could substantiate that he said it. But so far, I cannot," says Richard Langworth, editor of the journal Finest Hour, published by WinstonChurchill.org.

Langworth has combed through millions of words written by and about Churchill and found no evidence that the former prime minister ever said that about America."


Why would Churchill say something silly like that when he desperately needed the U.S. to save Britain from defeat? OTOH, he was very complimentary of the Americans following the victory at the Battle of the Bulge, the largest & bloodiest battle fought by the U.S. in World War 2; “This is undoubtedly the greatest American battle of the war” and that the Battle of the Bulge would “be regarded as an ever-famous American victory."

Without the U.S. & the Soviets entering the war, the British Empire would have been no more.
 
If employees can prove serious and willful negligence then they should bring suit.

What probably should have happened is all essential employees should have refused to work as you suggest. Truck drivers, meat packers, nurses, grocery workers and the like. For safety sake.

Grocers, Hospital execs, Trucking companies ought to have their asses sued off. We need trials now.
First,let me say that your comments are a pleasant surprise to me!! But unfortunately,Covid aid packages are very very complicated,but in short, the 3 things that are happening at once in our government have potential to help but urgency cannot be confused with haste.
Americans need housing and food,they need continued supplement income for healthcare,both virus related and medical care to maintain general health. Those emergency funds should get passed into law and immediately dispersed into the population.
Evictions and foreclosures will exacerbate the Covid crisis,the federal government needs to take sweeping and emergency action to ensure Americans,men women and children are not launched into homelessness or create drastic overcrowding conditions that are again and again listed as a problem for virus spread and for those that require isolating. Also w looming diverse plans for school reopening, homes that are now manageable may become impossible by increasing occupancy, from displacement of family or friends..
All these issues have been addressed on some level,but are combined with legislation that include the top priority of liability protection for business. Yesterday Mitch McConnell stated clearly that he will do nothing unless his priorities are addressed first. That includes unemployment benefits for struggling Americans..so liability for business before food,medicine and housing for other Americans..
Courts before Covid..strange medical priority?
 
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First,let me say that your comments are a pleasant surprise to me!! But unfortunately,Covid aid packages are very very complicated,but in short, the 3 things that are happening at once in our government have potential to help but urgency cannot be confused with haste.
Americans need housing and food,they need continued supplement income for healthcare,both virus related and medical care to maintain general health. Those emergency funds should get passed into law and immediately dispersed into the population.
Evictions and foreclosures will exacerbate the Covid crisis,the federal government needs to take sweeping and emergency action to ensure Americans,men women and children are not launched into homelessness or create drastic overcrowding conditions that are again and again listed as a problem for virus spread and for those that require isolating. Also w looming diverse plans for school reopening, homes that are now manageable may become impossible by increasing occupancy, from displacement of family or friends..
All these issues have been addressed on some level,but are combined with legislation that include the top priority of liability protection for business. Yesterday Mitch McConnell stated clearly that he will do nothing unless his priorities are addressed first. That includes unemployment benefits for struggling Americans..so liability for business before food,medicine and housing for other Americans..
Courts before Covid..strange medical priority?

Yes, I admire your selfishness. If only the stupid doctors, nurses, pharma researchers, first responders, truckers, grocery stockers would have tapped in to their own stream of consciousness that you seem to possess.

Whatever outcome we will eventually see would have been so.different.

Yes sir. Tort lawyers are salivating at the prospects of, well, you know, doing what they do.
 
There's no evidence Churchill ever said that

Or as Yogi Berra once remarked, "I never said a lot of those things that I said".

Yes sir. Tort lawyers are salivating at the prospects of, well, you know, doing what they do.

I agree somewhat with this. After watching Americans hoard toilet paper, apparently because they could then sell it at a huge profit to people who needed it, I have no doubt at all that many frivolous lawsuits will be filed by people looking to cash in (and of course their lawyers). It would be naive to think some people wouldn't even go as far as to bribe someone to give them a positive test.

Obviously the wording is critical, but surely that's where the two sides ought to be able to find room in the middle? One aspect of the proposal is to protect health care workers, and I'd think we could all get behind that? Aren't they stressed out and at risk enough without worrying about someone's suing them?

What I don't understand is the opposition to liability protection based on the notion that the money is needed more urgently fo other things. What money? How does writing in some conditions in the bill cost money?

The bottom line is that the Democrats don't have the votes in the Senate to pass this bill if all the Rs line up behind their majority leader. So unless they want to wait till after the election, when the situation might or might not be different, they better try to find a way to compromise. Schumer conceded he hasn't yet read the proposal, and hasn't ruled out some liability protections.
 
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WHO have definitely not covered themselves in glory over this for a number of reasons, but let's put this in perspective. The virus was only sequenced on January 12. On January 14, one of their US experts said that we needed to prepare ourselves for 'mass human transmission'. And by January 22, they openly issued a statement that human transmission was occurring. That the West basically sat with their thumbs up their rears for another 2 months is not the fault of the WHO.

https://www.reuters.com/article/chi...pread-its-warning-all-hospitals-idUSL8N29F48F
Curiously it took them a while to call it a pandemic unlike some countries that had already closed their borders before the WHO changed their stance.
 
Chris you and I appear to be swimming in a troll pond. I never had imagined that I am capable of achieving higher consciousness..so thanks.And if I am passing it on to truck drivers.move over Ghandi..
what I am saying..and yes over and over..wash your hands,wear a mask..chill.
When bars,beer,barbers and getting a burrito is more important than your neighbors kid or grandparents things are out of whack.
there is zero patriotic about wearing a mask..it's medical..it is based on your scientific spit splattering on someone else..not about repressing anybody on the contrary about care ,consideration for another...I will go waaaaaay out.taking preventive measures is to love your neighbors..
when anybody's trip to Trader Joe's is worth the risk of infecting another something is wrong with your math.
If you look at the US Covid strategy..if our children are prioritized behind nail salons, tattoo parlors and Wal Mart you got something way wrong..full stop..do over..
The idea that the government writings are more elaborate on tire changes,hair cuts and sushi service is more advanced than how to get our kids safely back in school..something is very very seriously F't up.
That is not higher thinking. I am talking basics..
The completely different design is that everyone else thinks you can't achieve commerce without health..the U.S. has pursued the inverse..you don't have health if you don't have commerce..
I am not complying concluding who is right or wrong..my conclusion is the math based on the overall philosophy..we have dead bodies and debilitated commerce and health..
As Americans I feel we may revisit leaded pipes and gas..doing cost analysis on seat belts and padded dash boards..air bags,,lawn darts..
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MQEy9NTSPPM
 
NYT says there are 27 vaccines now in human trials, and briefly describes each. Some things I didn't know:
  1. The Oxford vaccine is already in a phase 3 trial in Brazil (everyone's favorite whipping boy because of the cases there). This is the one everyone should be cheering for, because if it works, they have the capacity to manufacture 2 billion doses. This is a gamble. If the vaccine works, they've saved months that would it otherwise would have to take to scale up this much. If it doesn't work, they've lost a lot of money.
  2. Several vaccines produced by Chinese-owned companies are also in phase 3 trials. As is a repurposed TB vaccine by a company in Australia.
  3. One Chinese vaccine, just based on phase 1/2 trials, has already been approved for temporary use, and apparently will be used on soldiers. This is another adenovirus-based vector, like the Oxford vaccine. It will be interesting to see how much information the Chinese provide about this.
  4. LOL...N. Korea claims it has developed a vaccine, but can't test it in its own country, because, they claim, there are no cases of C19 there.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html
 
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Curiously it took them a while to call it a pandemic unlike some countries that had already closed their borders before the WHO changed their stance.
That is largely because member countries complained when they called swine flu a pandemic in 2009. Additionally, once WHO calls something a pandemic, countries are mandated to carry out pandemic plans. And those plans are universally designed to prevent the spread of flu for obvious historical reasons and assume that containment is not worth attempting. Back in February, there was a notion that containment might still be possible with COVID-19. Once it was evident that mitigation was the only viable strategy, a pandemic was declared. This is one of their more defensible decisions IMO.
 
If employees can prove serious and willful negligence then they should bring suit.

What probably should have happened is all essential employees should have refused to work as you suggest. Truck drivers, meat packers, nurses, grocery workers and the like. For safety sake.

Grocers, Hospital execs, Trucking companies ought to have their asses sued off. We need trials now.
You should check out the July 20th issue of New Yorker with article by Jane Mayer: Back to the Jungle. It deals with Mountaire, a large chicken processor and major Trump donor. The Labor Dept has extended indemnification to them, Tyson and others under Trump's executive order as long as they make some "good faith effort" to follow CDC guidelines. Additionally OSHA has virtually zero response to worker complaints on job conditions. Along with the NLRB, packed with all Trump appointees Mountaire is also working to negate Union labor contracts.
How did this Executive order come about? The "threat" of meat shortages spurred by Mountaire, Tyson and others encouraged Trump to spring into action. Reality: no shortage and an increase in meat exports since the pandemic. Profits up, worker compensation down and consumers sense no shortage which will no doubt be a campaign talking point.
So essential workers are f*cked under this program and it looks like additional emergency payments or unemployment compensation extensions are not on the radar either. Who are you going to bring to court?
 
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