Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[Koronin]

If it would be far cheaper for other companies to produce the vaccines than to scale up production, why wouldn't they license the patent to them? Remember, there's no monopoly.

I think it's quite difficult to scale up production, and I don't think it's easy to transfer the expertise required. This is not the production of cookies.

One of the issues is that only a select number of labs have the technology to produce the mRNA vaccines.


One question I have is: Has anything heard anything new from Novavax? I know they aren't applying for EUA in the US and will only apply here once they have everything needed for full approval, but have they gotten approval yet under EUA for their vaccine? It looked to have similar results to Moderna and Pfizer.

 

[movingtarget]

One of the issues is that only a select number of labs have the technology to produce the mRNA vaccines.


One question I have is: Has anything heard anything new from Novavax? I know they aren't applying for EUA in the US and will only apply here once they have everything needed for full approval, but have they gotten approval yet under EUA for their vaccine? It looked to have similar results to Moderna and Pfizer.

I have heard that Novavax could be available in Australia late in the year. They had delays for some reason.

 

[movingtarget]

One of the issues is that only a select number of labs have the technology to produce the mRNA vaccines.


One question I have is: Has anything heard anything new from Novavax? I know they aren't applying for EUA in the US and will only apply here once they have everything needed for full approval, but have they gotten approval yet under EUA for their vaccine? It looked to have similar results to Moderna and Pfizer.

One of the federal government’s key vaccine deals has been hit with major delays, with 51 million doses of Novavax originally due to arrive in the second half of this year now not expected until 2022.

Since initially touting Novavax as one of three secured deals that could immunise the entire population as a “primary” vaccine by the end of this year, the federal government has quietly edged away from the commitment as it focuses instead on securing more Pfizer vaccines.

The Novavax that has been ordered will now serve as part of the government’s booster strategy when supplies mostly come on stream in 2022, with only a small portion of the 51m doses ordered now expected in the final quarter of this year.

The protein-based vaccine has shown promising results in clinical trials, but Novavax has yet to supply the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) with enough information for approval, and the vaccine has not yet been approved for use in any other country.

The company, which has never brought a vaccine to market in its 34-year history, has reported supply problems – including the availability of plastic bags – as being a significant hurdle to global supply of its vaccine.

 

[Koronin]

One of the federal government’s key vaccine deals has been hit with major delays, with 51 million doses of Novavax originally due to arrive in the second half of this year now not expected until 2022.

Since initially touting Novavax as one of three secured deals that could immunise the entire population as a “primary” vaccine by the end of this year, the federal government has quietly edged away from the commitment as it focuses instead on securing more Pfizer vaccines.

The Novavax that has been ordered will now serve as part of the government’s booster strategy when supplies mostly come on stream in 2022, with only a small portion of the 51m doses ordered now expected in the final quarter of this year.

The protein-based vaccine has shown promising results in clinical trials, but Novavax has yet to supply the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) with enough information for approval, and the vaccine has not yet been approved for use in any other country.

The company, which has never brought a vaccine to market in its 34-year history, has reported supply problems – including the availability of plastic bags – as being a significant hurdle to global supply of its vaccine.

Thank you. Appreciate the information.

 

[dusty red roads]

Japan is also interested in it, though this article says 'as a backup'

Japan, Pfizer making deal for 120 million 'booster' third vaccines in 2022 - The Mainichi

TOKYO -- The Japanese government and U.S. pharmaceuticals giant Pfizer have reportedly broadly agreed to a contract supplying an additional 120 millio

mainichi.jp

 

[Nomad]

Except in Texas where the Governor has banned vaccine and mask mandates. Right up to....(wait....wait....) he tested positive today in spite of having a vaccine. Texas' Gov Abbot has tread the same path as Fla. Governor DeSantis who was vaccinated in April; before almost anyone else could get one. The fear and hysteria of vaccines is already present in those states and they are overwhelmingly the most impacted. That is until they spread their love to the rest of the country.

Yeah...he tested positive after being fully vaccinated - so another vaccine failure in my books (unless the testing is all screwed up). Isn't the sole purpose of a vaccine is to prevent the recipient from acquiring and spreading the said disease being vaccinated against?

I don't think there's any fear & hysteria of the vaccines in Texas - their current fully vaxx rate is 45% - 35th in the U.S. and ahead of 15 other states! And that's almost half of one of the most populous states. And I see jmdirt's home tuff is almost dead last @ 38%. I wonder how many arguments he's getting into with the demonized "anti-vaxxers" over there?

States ranked by percentage of population fully vaccinated - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

Vermont has the highest percentage of its population fully vaccinated against COVID-19, according to the CDC's COVID-19 vaccine distribution and administration data tracker.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

Abbott appears that he isn't going to mandate any masks or vaccines:

"Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issues broad COVID-19 order that touts "personal responsibility," not edicts"
"His rewrite of old orders scuttles mask mandates and mitigation moves by counties with high hospitalizations. It also outlaws vaccine requirements by public and some private entities."

Weiterleitungshinweis

www.google.com

And the same with Alabama & Mississippi. Alabama has supposedly run out of ICU beds & 76 yr old Gov Kay Ivey has said no mask mandates (she also signed a bill last May that prohibits vaccine passports). And Mississippi's hospital system is supposedly approaching statewide failure - and Gov Reeves also isn't planning on doing any mask or vaccine mandates (maybe these two will change their mind if things get even worse - but I kinda doubt it especially on any vaccine mandates).

And Gov Ducey of Arizona just signed an order banning cities & counties from enacting vaccine mandates:

Weiterleitungshinweis

"We encourage all Arizonans to get the vaccine - it's safe, effective and free," Ducey said in a statement. "But getting it is a personal choice, and we will not allow discrimination based on vaccination status. Today's order builds on our efforts to protect Arizonans from excessive mandates that hinder their freedom to choose what's best for their health."

"....freedom to choose what's best for their health" - love that kind of talk!

 

[Nomad]

"Law professor sues over vaccination requirements, says he already had covid, doesn't need vaccine:"

Weiterleitungshinweis

 

[Netserk]

Isn't the sole purpose of a vaccine is to prevent the recipient from acquiring and spreading the said disease being vaccinated against?

Not the sole purpose, no. And no one (with a clue) thought the efficacy was 100 %.

Another purpose is to reduce the risk of death if infected. It's quite obvious how that can only be the case if it is still possible (but less likely) for someone vaccinated to be infected.

 

[jmdirt]

Yeah...he tested positive after being fully vaccinated - so another vaccine failure in my books (unless the testing is all screwed up). Isn't the sole purpose of a vaccine is to prevent the recipient from acquiring and spreading the said disease being vaccinated against?

I don't think there's any fear & hysteria of the vaccines in Texas - their current fully vaxx rate is 45% - 35th in the U.S. and ahead of 15 other states! And that's almost half of one of the most populous states. And I see jmdirt's home tuff is almost dead last @ 38%. I wonder how many arguments he's getting into with the demonized "anti-vaxxers" over there?

States ranked by percentage of population fully vaccinated - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

Vermont has the highest percentage of its population fully vaccinated against COVID-19, according to the CDC's COVID-19 vaccine distribution and administration data tracker.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

Abbott appears that he isn't going to mandate any masks or vaccines:

"Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issues broad COVID-19 order that touts "personal responsibility," not edicts"
"His rewrite of old orders scuttles mask mandates and mitigation moves by counties with high hospitalizations. It also outlaws vaccine requirements by public and some private entities."

Weiterleitungshinweis

www.google.com

And the same with Alabama & Mississippi. Alabama has supposedly run out of ICU beds & 76 yr old Gov Kay Ivey has said no mask mandates (she also signed a bill last May that prohibits vaccine passports). And Mississippi's hospital system is supposedly approaching statewide failure - and Gov Reeves also isn't planning on doing any mask or vaccine mandates (maybe these two will change their mind if things get even worse - but I kinda doubt it especially on any vaccine mandates).

And Gov Ducey of Arizona just signed an order banning cities & counties from enacting vaccine mandates:

Weiterleitungshinweis

"We encourage all Arizonans to get the vaccine - it's safe, effective and free," Ducey said in a statement. "But getting it is a personal choice, and we will not allow discrimination based on vaccination status. Today's order builds on our efforts to protect Arizonans from excessive mandates that hinder their freedom to choose what's best for their health."

"....freedom to choose what's best for their health" - love that kind of talk!

Most of Idaho is notoriously anti, frequently to their own detriment. Sun Valley and Boise are exceptions. To answer your question, I haven't had any discussions with anit people about SARS-CoV-2.

To answer another one of your questions: "Isn't the sole purpose of a vaccine is to prevent the recipient from acquiring and spreading the said disease being vaccinated against?" Short answer, no. That would be ideal though. The main purpose of a vaccine is to help prepare your immune system to fight a pathogen.

Scenario: You, me, and two others standing in a room with 10 SARS-CoV-2 positive people. We are all going to breath in the same (or very similar) amount of the virus.
-Me-Strong immune system, vaccinated, probably asymptomatic or 'under the weather' for a day or two. Before delta, spread way less.
-You- Strong immune system, not vaccinated, probably sick for a week or 10 days (maybe what happened to you last year?).
-Other person 1- less strong immune system, vaccinated, probably sick for a week or 10 days, maybe hospitalized. Before delta, spread way less.
-Other person- poor immune system, not vaccinated, likely hospitalized, maybe dies.

A very important point that is missed in most discussions and reporting is that each persons' immune system plays a huge role in how well vaccines works and how well they are able to fight a pathogen.

Disclaimer: a lot of other things can play out in my generalization, ie: I could die, and the poor immune system, not vaccinated person could live, we could all die, etc., but things like that are rare, not likely.

 

[Unchained]

Not the sole purpose, no. And no one (with a clue) thought the efficacy was 100 %.

Another purpose is to reduce the risk of death if infected. It's quite obvious how that can only be the case if it is still possible (but less likely) for someone vaccinated to be infected.

There was and still is an enormous problem with the Flu and Covid virus and vaccine comparisons. Both super infectious and cause death. Both have every developing vaccines. Both cause crazy runs on the medical system. Influenza vaccines cover a huge range but don't cover 100% of anything,and if you still contract flu after being vaccinated the duration and severity are less.
I certainly could never pinpoint the the origin of the public message that the virus is 90% deadly and the vaccine is 100% effective in an absolute protection prevention kind of way.
I am confused for sure and I am paying attention..lots my countrymen and others are still asleep..w fall right around the corner..temps and weather sending us back inside,,most maskless..sounds like Groundhog Day..with a bad ending..

 

[Oldermanish]

Except in Texas where the Governor has banned vaccine and mask mandates. Right up to....(wait....wait....) he tested positive today in spite of having a vaccine. Texas' Gov Abbot has tread the same path as Fla. Governor DeSantis who was vaccinated in April; before almost anyone else could get one. The fear and hysteria of vaccines is already present in those states and they are overwhelmingly the most impacted. That is until they spread their love to the rest of the country.

The Texans never miss a beat:

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick Blames Black Community, Democrats For COVID Spread

While the Governor is in quarantine the Lt. Governor makes this claim: "most unvaccinated people are Black. Most Blacks are democrats....it's their problem(paraphrase)". Gotta love that 1st grade logic. Doesn't say how many barriers for care and voting the Republican State legislature are trying to place before the same community, though. It just gets dumberer and dumberer...er.

 

[movingtarget]

UK regulator approves ‘first of its kind’ Covid antibody treatment

Sajid Javid says green light for Ronapreve – which was used to treat Donald Trump – is ‘fantastic news’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Nomad]

Most of Idaho is notoriously anti, frequently to their own detriment. Sun Valley and Boise are exceptions. To answer your question, I haven't had any discussions with anit people about SARS-CoV-2.

So, it's basically rural Idaho that is vaccine hesitant? "38%" vaxx rate is very low - right down there with Mississippi & Alabama. Any reason why the rural folks are hesitant? Do you expect to see an influx of the unvaccinated flooding the hospitals similar to what's going on in the Southern states? (your cases are going up but your hospitalizations don't look too bad right now).

To answer another one of your questions: "Isn't the sole purpose of a vaccine is to prevent the recipient from acquiring and spreading the said disease being vaccinated against?" Short answer, no. That would be ideal though. The main purpose of a vaccine is to help prepare your immune system to fight a pathogen.

Scenario: You, me, and two others standing in a room with 10 SARS-CoV-2 positive people. We are all going to breath in the same (or very similar) amount of the virus.
-Me-Strong immune system, vaccinated, probably asymptomatic or 'under the weather' for a day or two. Before delta, spread way less.
-You- Strong immune system, not vaccinated, probably sick for a week or 10 days (maybe what happened to you last year?).
-Other person 1- less strong immune system, vaccinated, probably sick for a week or 10 days, maybe hospitalized. Before delta, spread way less.
-Other person- poor immune system, not vaccinated, likely hospitalized, maybe dies.

A very important point that is missed in most discussions and reporting is that each persons' immune system plays a huge role in how well vaccines works and how well they are able to fight a pathogen.

Disclaimer: a lot of other things can play out in my generalization, ie: I could die, and the poor immune system, not vaccinated person could live, we could all die, etc., but things like that are rare, not likely.

That's a good assessment - I'd agree with that. However, the one benefit with natural immunity from infection over these vaccines is life-long antibodies & T-cell immunity:

Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer.

www.nature.com

Also, are you aware of this since it occurred in your neck of the woods:

Heartbreaking: Idaho man paralyzed after receiving COVID-19 vaccine - Idaho Freedom

How many times during the pandemic have we heard we need to get vaccinated to get back to “normal?” Probably more times than we can count. The media continues

idahofreedom.org

 

[djpbaltimore]

Second paragraph.

The study provides evidence that immunity triggered by SARS-CoV-2 infection will be extraordinarily long-lasting. Adding to the good news, “the implications are that vaccines will have the same durable effect”, says Menno van Zelm, an immunologist at Monash University in Melbourne, Australia.

 

[jmdirt]

So, it's basically rural Idaho that is vaccine hesitant? "38%" vaxx rate is very low - right down there with Mississippi & Alabama. Any reason why the rural folks are hesitant? Do you expect to see an influx of the unvaccinated flooding the hospitals similar to what's going on in the Southern states? (your cases are going up but your hospitalizations don't look too bad right now).


That's a good assessment - I'd agree with that. However, the one benefit with natural immunity from infection over these vaccines is life-long antibodies & T-cell immunity:

Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer.

www.nature.com

Also, are you aware of this since it occurred in your neck of the woods:

Heartbreaking: Idaho man paralyzed after receiving COVID-19 vaccine - Idaho Freedom

How many times during the pandemic have we heard we need to get vaccinated to get back to “normal?” Probably more times than we can count. The media continues

idahofreedom.org

No, not just rural. I might add later if I get a minute.
EDIT:
-Idaho is 53% vaccinated for eligible population.
-Like I said, Sun Valley and Boise are exceptions to the anti crowd.
-Blaine Country (Sun Valley) 89% Vaccinated.
-Ada County (Boise, Meridian, Eagle, Star, Kuna...) 63%
--there is no separate count for Boise, but I would bet that if Boise was counted by itself it would be 75-80% because Meridian, Eagle, Star..., have a population boom of anti crowd from other states (so 63% actually surprises me).
-Valley and Teton counties have resort towns as their economic driver and they are both over 50%.
-Three other counties that tip over 50% have a college as a big driver.
-Many counties around 30%.
-Idaho and Owyhee Counties have the lowest vaccination rates right around 25%. They are also the two largest counties in land, but have small populations.(8,5000 square miles/16K people and 8,000/11K people), Many of them probably only see other people infrequently when the go to town (unfortunately 'town' is Boise for their big shopping).

 

[Ultrairon]

Focuses on Texas like they stole something from him. The statewide numbers are not as bad as the 3 or 4 months of winter. Watch them fall and watch the lack of concern you will have when it shifts to another state.
Demographics for the entire country show the least vax demo is black. That is a fact. Next up is Hispanics that's a fact. Whites are not much better but the Asians regardless of education are the most vaxed. Why not call it out? Pointing to healthcare etc. When vax locations are everywhere in that state. Its not hard at all to walk up and take a shot.

 

[Koronin]

For the US this may help a bit. It's expected Pfizer's Covid vaccine will be granted full FDA approval next week.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-full-220040748.html

 

[Netserk]

https://www.ssi.dk/-/media/arkiv/dk/aktuelt/nyheder/2021/notat---vaccineeffektivitet-for-covid-19-vaccinerne.pdf

https://twitter.com/x/status/1428332156439470081

View: https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1428332156439470081

 

[jmdirt]

The news that vaccinated people transmit Delta at the same levels as unvaccinated people has 'worried' me since it hit the news a few weeks back. Part of why I got vaccinated was so that if I did get SC2 I wouldn't spread it to others. I feel a little better after more numbers are coming out showing that while vaccinated people do transmit about the same for the first few (~4-5) days, the Ct drops off much more quickly than non vaccinated people (narrower RNA load). The diagram below was shared by Dr. Crotty.
Ct by days OK, it must be protected because its not working...check @pofshanecrotty
This also reinforces the importance of mask wearing even for vaccinated people. If you get it, you want to keep it to yourself during those first few days!

EDIT: try this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1428785688015630337

View: https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1428785688015630337


EDIT: He also discusses a third dose.

 

[djpbaltimore]

In vaccinated people, there is also a reasonable chance that the virions are coated with antibody as they are shed. So, the amount of viral RNA might be equivalent, but the infectious amount of virus might still be significantly less.

 

[Oldermanish]

So, it's basically rural Idaho that is vaccine hesitant? "38%" vaxx rate is very low - right down there with Mississippi & Alabama. Any reason why the rural folks are hesitant? Do you expect to see an influx of the unvaccinated flooding the hospitals similar to what's going on in the Southern states? (your cases are going up but your hospitalizations don't look too bad right now).


That's a good assessment - I'd agree with that. However, the one benefit with natural immunity from infection over these vaccines is life-long antibodies & T-cell immunity:

Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer.

www.nature.com

Also, are you aware of this since it occurred in your neck of the woods:

Heartbreaking: Idaho man paralyzed after receiving COVID-19 vaccine - Idaho Freedom

How many times during the pandemic have we heard we need to get vaccinated to get back to “normal?” Probably more times than we can count. The media continues

idahofreedom.org

Idaho has isolated towns where folks probably figure the risk is low and their political views have persuaded them. There are also many religious outposts that generally avoid vaccination as a practice. Many are extremely healthy and politics doesn't enter the picture but it doesn't make the invulnerable either.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that many residents of ski towns have learned their lesson from the first waves due to rich, part time residents that avoided lockdown elsewhere and brought the bug with them. That occurred without much warning but anyone with a brain knows and acknowledges that many in their communities got sick or very sick.

 

[movingtarget]

https://au.yahoo.com/news/covid-miserable-way-die-alabama-101243691.html

https://au.yahoo.com/news/though-young-healthy-unvaccinated-father-140829963.html

 

[SHAD0W93]

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtube.com

While not a laughing matter, this is a very real representation of the patients in the hospital or outside. Last week there was a 25 year old that had a very bad case of COVID. Went to one hospital for trouble breathing and went AMA because he thought he was better after a couple hours on 2L nasal cannula. Then walked across the street to my hospital hypoxic and a CO2 level of 75 (normal is 35-45). For 24 hours he was on a high flow nasal cannula at 8L on Sat night thought he was better and wanted to go AMA and not understanding he was doing better because of the supplemental oxygen and kept saying he wasn’t sick and didn’t have COVID. Sun morning a rapid was called on him since he was desating and he went from IMC to ICU to be intubated and he went AMA again stating he is fine. He is still alert and orientated so can. His mother picked him up and then immediately took him to a third different hospital because he went into cardiac arrest without the oxygen and intubated. Now most of the patients on my unit are at continuous 100% oxygen.

Everyone is far sicker than this time last year unfortunately.

Idaho has isolated towns where folks probably figure the risk is low and their political views have persuaded them. There are also many religious outposts that generally avoid vaccination as a practice. Many are extremely healthy and politics doesn't enter the picture but it doesn't make the invulnerable either.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that many residents of ski towns have learned their lesson from the first waves due to rich, part time residents that avoided lockdown elsewhere and brought the bug with them. That occurred without much warning but anyone with a brain knows and acknowledges that many in their communities got sick or very sick.

When so went to Pocatello in April this year, almost no one wore a mask and it was still required at the time.

 

[Oldermanish]

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtube.com

While not a laughing matter, this is a very real representation of the patients in the hospital or outside. Last week there was a 25 year old that had a very bad case of COVID. Went to one hospital for trouble breathing and went AMA because he thought he was better after a couple hours on 2L nasal cannula. Then walked across the street to my hospital hypoxic and a CO2 level of 75 (normal is 35-45). For 24 hours he was on a high flow nasal cannula at 8L on Sat night thought he was better and wanted to go AMA and not understanding he was doing better because of the supplemental oxygen and kept saying he wasn’t sick and didn’t have COVID. Sun morning a rapid was called on him since he was desating and he went from IMC to ICU to be intubated and he went AMA again stating he is fine. He is still alert and orientated so can. His mother picked him up and then immediately took him to a third different hospital because he went into cardiac arrest without the oxygen and intubated. Now most of the patients on my unit are at continuous 100% oxygen.

Everyone is far sicker than this time last year unfortunately.


When so went to Pocatello in April this year, almost no one wore a mask and it was still required at the time.

The Seattle Seahawks just packed a stadium last night with no masks! Stooopid. Many restaurants and businesses are requesting masked entry for even vaccinated individuals but the NFL? Even the Pittsburgh game had a requirement.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

The Seattle Seahawks just packed a stadium last night with no masks! Stooopid. Many restaurants and businesses are requesting masked entry for even vaccinated individuals but the NFL? Even the Pittsburgh game had a requirement.

It didn't look much better at the Prefontaine Classic here in Eugene yesterday either, I think it's too soon to be so cavalier whether you've been vaccinated or not.