Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[Ultrairon]

We just went over this. Australia almost has a 1/4 of its population that is unvaccinated. And a lot of the unvaccinated are concentrated in school settings. And unboosted don't have much protection from infection with omicron and that represents the vast majority of people. It isn't logic, it is empirical evidence. Vaccinated people shed less virus sooner than the unvaccinated. I have posted the data before.


small business owners have voiced their opinions ad nauseum. And they have been catered to beyond all reason. Why do you suppose that bars were open when the schools were online only?

Italy had a lot more death in 2020. That is going to effect people negatively.

So why are any of the boosted getting covid then? fauci will let you know and you can share. You made a horrible slide comment at Frank B so I sent you the same.
Get out and exercise work on that respiratory health. Much better than defending the media / tv doctors.

 

[FrankB]

Vaccination can prevent transmission. It isn't perfect, but I think it is fair to demand vaccination for international travel. I know one neat trick that would allow him entry.


Maybe you missed this one. After all, it wasn't published in the Babylon Bee.

Israeli study finds Pfizer Covid booster protects against omicron variant

Israeli researchers said they found that a three-shot course of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine provided significant protection against the new omicron variant.

www.cnbc.com

The big question is whether that was due to the lockdowns or just the pandemic. There are a lot of things that have increased the last few years. They probably aren't all due to lockdowns.

I guess my 4 infected, vaccinated and boosted employees didn't read that study, because it didn't work for them.
Given the infection rate among our vaxxed employees vs, the unvaxxed, and the lack of difference in the severity of symptoms regardless of vaccination status, I can't really recommend it with a straight face anymore.

Leftist Who Keeps Taking COVID Tests Says He Can Quit Anytime

RICHMOND, VA—A local family held an impromptu intervention for their son, Richard Chag, 35, who has been taking up to 24 COVID tests a day.

babylonbee.com

 

[FrankB]

We just went over this. Australia almost has a 1/4 of its population that is unvaccinated. And a lot of the unvaccinated are concentrated in school settings. And unboosted don't have much protection from infection with omicron and that represents the vast majority of people. It isn't logic, it is empirical evidence. Vaccinated people shed less virus sooner than the unvaccinated. I have posted the data before.


small business owners have voiced their opinions ad nauseum. And they have been catered to beyond all reason. Why do you suppose that bars were open when the schools were online only?

Italy had a lot more death in 2020. That is going to effect people negatively.

Yes, how dare those small business owners want to keep their livelihood afloat. Then again, I don't really expect those that suck from the public teat to understand.

 

[Cookster15]

small business owners have voiced their opinions ad nauseum. And they have been catered to beyond all reason. Why do you suppose that bars were open when the schools were online only?

Italy had a lot more death in 2020. That is going to effect people negatively.

Apologies if I missed earlier posts. I have been active here in recent days but not for long periods since this thread started.

Italy is not relevant to Australia except we saw the horror there and took steps to ensure it would not be repeated. But we are lucky we don't have land borders and were able to stop incoming flights early.

I am just trying to explain the mental health observations. It is real, you should try to understand because depending where in the world you are the impact can be much greater than Covid. Sometimes I really wonder if physicians are trained much in mental health. I am sure they are but their focus is often on physical health because unless you are a psychiatrist that is outside their realm.

And if you invested your life into a small business to see it disappear overnight there is not much any government can do to compensate that. These businesses can also be people's retirement plans - kids and grandkids can also be affected.

I personally know people in that situation but thankfully my job in the private sector wasn't at risk. For example in Australia laws were passed to ensure landlords provided rent relief equivalent to the immediate fall in retail sales due to lockdowns. But big landlords intimidate small business owners who can't afford expensive lawyers. They find loopholes and there is not much they can do - some have lost their homes. I am sure in America there are similar e.g. Food shop outlets in Food courts. These people had zero sales overnight and landlords were still expecting them to pay full rent.

Frankly government workers in general don't understand. No government worker has lost their livelihood due to the pandemic. None. A little empathy goes along way.

 

[Cookster15]

We just went over this. Australia almost has a 1/4 of its population that is unvaccinated. And a lot of the unvaccinated are concentrated in school settings. And unboosted don't have much protection from infection with omicron and that represents the vast majority of people. It isn't logic, it is empirical evidence. Vaccinated people shed less virus sooner than the unvaccinated. I have posted the data before.

Yes I remember except your empirical evidence does not tie with data for hospitalizations or ICU. And most in our ICUs are there for the outgoing delta variant, not omicron as I posted earlier. Maryland isn't the Australian state of NSW.

As for a lot of the unvaccinated are concentrated in school settings - How many school kids get sick? The at risk e.g. elderly are almost all fully vaccinated. Below link includes the official cases and deaths by age group.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) case numbers and statistics

This page provides updates about the current situation, latest case numbers and related information. It is updated every day by 9 pm AEST and reflects the previous 24 hours.

www.health.gov.au

 

[yaco]

The vaccines are doing their job well at preventing serious illness - I think the scientists thought the vaccines would do better at limiting transmission, but hey, you can't have everything. I have a theory that three boosters combined with increased immunity because of the spread of Omicron will lead to lower transmission - Could DJBaltimore answer my theory.

 

[Koronin]

The vaccines are doing their job well at preventing serious illness - I think the scientists thought the vaccines would do better at limiting transmission but you can't have everything. I have a theory that three boosters combined with increased immunity because of the spread of Omicron will lead to lower transmission - Could DJBaltimore answer my theory.

I do wonder if a booster than it a little different from the original one (not variant specific but changed due to the way the variants are mutating) would help as well?

 

[movingtarget]

Covid hospitalizations among US children soar as schools under pressure

Average of 672 children being hospitalized every day in the US as of 2 January, fueled by the Omicron variant and the holidays

www.theguardian.com

 

[djpbaltimore]

The vaccines are doing their job well at preventing serious illness - I think the scientists thought the vaccines would do better at limiting transmission, but hey, you can't have everything. I have a theory that three boosters combined with increased immunity because of the spread of Omicron will lead to lower transmission - Could DJBaltimore answer my theory.

Yes, that is a good theory. Once population immunity reaches a certain level, the degree of transmission should decrease greatly.

 

[search]

I guess my 4 infected, vaccinated and boosted employees didn't read that study, because it didn't work for them.
Given the infection rate among our vaxxed employees vs, the unvaxxed, and the lack of difference in the severity of symptoms regardless of vaccination status, I can't really recommend it with a straight face anymore.

I wouldn't go that far, but I think it's pretty sure that it needs an adjusted vaccine as quickly as possible. The booster reduces the omicron infection risk by sth around 75% - but obviously, when omicron comes with meeting 10-time as many infected as before now, it won't take long before you hit that 25% chance to still get it.

 

[Nomad]

"Antibodies from infection or vaccine offer "robust" protection from omicron, study says."

Weiterleitungshinweis

 

[Cookster15]

Yes, that is a good theory. Once population immunity reaches a certain level, the degree of transmission should decrease greatly.

Hmm, not sure about that with omicron?

My understanding is population immunity can be achieved via either vaccination or exposure to the virus. Above you claim we should be concerned because Australia has low exposure. Except we have higher vaccination than virtually every nation - including America.

Now 91.7% of the Australian population over 16 are double vaccinated (note: boosters not due yet*).
Vaccination numbers and statistics | Australian Government Department of Health

Question: *I think boosters are required because the efficacy of the original shots wear off? Or is this because you don't achieve full protection until after the booster? So the Australian population who is largely still within the first 6 months of the 2nd shot, immunity level (and transmissibility) should be just as high - or not?

Yesterday, January 6 Australia just recorded the highest daily case count since the pandemic commenced. I suggest this is because people are vaccinated they are out and about and less concerned - you can call that complacency but as I have mentioned, the media is doom and gloom every day here like everywhere. ICUs are well within capacity but we still wait nervously. My point is the massive omicron transmission rate isn't by the unvaccinated. Therefore the rule which has caused the world #1 tennis player to be caught and sent home is ineffective.

 

[Cookster15]

The vaccines are doing their job well at preventing serious illness - I think the scientists thought the vaccines would do better at limiting transmission, but hey, you can't have everything. I have a theory that three boosters combined with increased immunity because of the spread of Omicron will lead to lower transmission - Could DJBaltimore answer my theory.

So vaccines don't do much to limit transmission. The current omicron case explosion in my country makes that very obvious. It also means the rule which has seen Novak Djokovic sent home is wrong based upon what is actually happening rather than what was predicted.

 

[jmdirt]

Hmm, not sure about that with omicron?

My understanding is population immunity can be achieved via either vaccination or exposure to the virus. Above you claim we should be concerned because Australia has low exposure. Except we have higher vaccination than virtually every nation - including America.

Now 91.7% of the Australian population over 16 are double vaccinated (note: boosters not due yet*).
Vaccination numbers and statistics | Australian Government Department of Health

Question: *I think boosters are required because the efficacy of the original shots wear off? Or is this because you don't achieve full protection until after the booster? So the Australian population who is largely still within the first 6 months of the 2nd shot, immunity level (and transmissibility) should be just as high - or not?

Yesterday, January 6 Australia just recorded the highest daily case count since the pandemic commenced. I suggest this is because people are vaccinated they are out and about and less concerned - you can call that complacency but as I have mentioned, the media is doom and gloom every day here like everywhere. ICUs are well within capacity but we still wait nervously. My point is the massive omicron transmission rate isn't by the unvaccinated. Therefore the rule which has caused the world #1 tennis player to be caught and sent home is ineffective.

I posted a link in October (?) from Dr. Crotty stating that many/most vaccinations are a three shot regimen, and some are yearly.

My understanding is that vaccines do reduce load and therefore transmission.

I understand that you are questioning the 'policy', but you gotta let Djok go.

 

[Cookster15]

I posted a link in October (?) from Dr. Crotty stating that many/most vaccinations are a three shot regimen, and some are yearly.

My understanding is that vaccines do reduce load and therefore transmission.

I understand that you are questioning the 'policy', but you gotta let Djok go.

Re Djok, sure, he's on the plane
But on transmission I am talking about the current omicron case explosion here. We are highly (double*) vaccinated and yet recording massive new case counts. I really doubt many new cases are for the unvaccinated.

*I asked the question on boosters since most Australians are not yet due for them, including myself who only got my 2nd shot on Sep 23.

 

[Mayomaniac]

"Antibodies from infection or vaccine offer "robust" protection from omicron, study says."

Weiterleitungshinweis

Sounds about right, half of my friends are positive right now, but none of them have any real symptoms.
Me and my parents all had a mild cold and chills one after eachother around Chrismas, so maybe we also already had Omnicron (we all got our 3rd shot recently).

 

[jmdirt]

Re Djok, sure, he's on the plane
But on transmission I am talking about the current omicron case explosion here. We are highly (double*) vaccinated and yet recording massive new case counts. I really doubt many new cases are for the unvaccinated.

*I asked the question on boosters since most Australians are not yet due for them, including myself who only got my 2nd shot on Sep 23.

If you aren't eligible, there's not much that you can do about getting a 3rd shot. Is there already a 'timetable' for third shots?

I've only seen one research specific to timing and they 'pointed to' shot, six weeks, shot, eight weeks, shot (they were using one of the mRNA, but I don't recall which). Based on that you are ready for #3, but that obviously depends on what guidance the NSW health officials are using. My shot spacing was a little wide: Jan, Feb, Nov.

 

[search]

Question: *I think boosters are required because the efficacy of the original shots wear off? Or is this because you don't achieve full protection until after the booster? So the Australian population who is largely still within the first 6 months of the 2nd shot, immunity level (and transmissibility) should be just as high - or not?

Data for omicron is still a bit limited, I think, but there was a Danish study released in December about vaccine effectiveness against infection (not severe illness - numbers are much better for that) with time:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.20.21267966v2.full.pdf

So based on that, while you'd still have a somewhat solid protection against a Delta infection (2nd shot ~90 days ago), it's far less to none against omicron. The booster brings it up to something around 70-75% again.

 

[Cookster15]

If you aren't eligible, there's not much that you can do about getting a 3rd shot. Is there already a 'timetable' for third shots?

I've only seen one research specific to timing and they 'pointed to' shot, six weeks, shot, eight weeks, shot (they were using one of the mRNA, but I don't recall which). Based on that you are ready for #3, but that obviously depends on what guidance the NSW health officials are using. My shot spacing was a little wide: Jan, Feb, Nov.

Thanks. To answer your question, we have received a letter from the government advising to get ready for boosters. I think the guidance for the first booster was 6 months from 2nd shot? But as we all know the advice changes as they learn. I will call my local Drs office to check.

 

[Cookster15]

Data for omicron is still a bit limited, I think, but there was a Danish study released in December about vaccine effectiveness against infection (not severe illness - numbers are much better for that) with time:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.20.21267966v2.full.pdf

So based on that, while you'd still have a somewhat solid protection against a Delta infection (2nd shot ~90 days ago), it's far less to none against omicron. The booster brings it up to something around 70-75% again.

Thank you - very helpful. Myself and family received Pfizer. Do we need boosters indefinitely? I have heard here they are thinking about combining the annual flu vaccine with the Covid booster? This would only upset those who didn't get annual flu shot. Pre Covid I was getting that via my employer so no issue.

 

[jmdirt]

Data for omicron is still a bit limited, I think, but there was a Danish study released in December about vaccine effectiveness against infection (not severe illness - numbers are much better for that) with time:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.20.21267966v2.full.pdf

So based on that, while you'd still have a somewhat solid protection against a Delta infection (2nd shot ~90 days ago), it's far less to none against omicron. The booster brings it up to something around 70-75% again.

negative percent graphs drive me nuts (more nuts).

 

[Ultrairon]

Yes I remember except your empirical evidence does not tie with data for hospitalizations or ICU. And most in our ICUs are there for the outgoing delta variant, not omicron as I posted earlier. Maryland isn't the Australian state of NSW.

As for a lot of the unvaccinated are concentrated in school settings - How many school kids get sick? The at risk e.g. elderly are almost all fully vaccinated. Below link includes the official cases and deaths by age group.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) case numbers and statistics

This page provides updates about the current situation, latest case numbers and related information. It is updated every day by 9 pm AEST and reflects the previous 24 hours.

www.health.gov.au

In America I'm not certain on the case data but the CDC does keep track of the deaths since March of 2020 the age group 0-17 deaths is at 694 due to covid. Pneumonia is at 1,244. Deaths from all causes in that age group is 66,915. I saw an article that ages 0-17 has had more deaths from suicide in percentages or even direct numbers since March of 2020. That is a sick number. Which means the social lock-downs with remote learning has destroyed our youth. They were not doing well to begin with and now this.

Anyone who says schools should be closed they should lock them up in jail for child abuse.

 

[Ultrairon]

Data for omicron is still a bit limited, I think, but there was a Danish study released in December about vaccine effectiveness against infection (not severe illness - numbers are much better for that) with time:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.20.21267966v2.full.pdf

So based on that, while you'd still have a somewhat solid protection against a Delta infection (2nd shot ~90 days ago), it's far less to none against omicron. The booster brings it up to something around 70-75% again.

Just once I would ask any "scientist" or "doctor" to start putting this data into a form that is easier to read. Imagine you slap that graph up in a news paper, no common blue collar worker is going to say oh yeah get the vax.

 

[FrankB]

Unvaccinated Man Feeling Left Out As All His Vaccinated Friends Have COVID

CLEVELAND, OH—Local unvaccinated man Chuck Dornley is feeling very left out this holiday season, as all his vaccinated friends have now contracted COVID.

babylonbee.com

 

[Cookster15]

In America I'm not certain on the case data but the CDC does keep track of the deaths since March of 2020 the age group 0-17 deaths is at 694 due to covid. Pneumonia is at 1,244. Deaths from all causes in that age group is 66,915. I saw an article that ages 0-17 has had more deaths from suicide in percentages or even direct numbers since March of 2020. That is a sick number. Which means the social lock-downs with remote learning has destroyed our youth. They were not doing well to begin with and now this.

Anyone who says schools should be closed they should lock them up in jail for child abuse.

The reason I have been more frequently posting here recently was to share my thoughts based upon what I see and observe. Also to pose questions as I know a few here are very well informed, or at least more intelligent the average CN poster . But I feel on Covid there is a certain arrogance and ignorance by some that needs challenging.

For example, medical doctors and specialists are amongst the most highly trained persons of any profession. They have huge responsibilities to human health and the public places our trust in them. My local neurosurgeon recently told me he had spent 19 years of his life at university - I am sure that isn't unusual for specialists. Hence they all deserve our respect, but that doesn't mean they should never be questioned or not held accountable. Of course politicians hate being held accountable, so they will always defer to "experts". Those experts are then made quite powerful. But everyone sees the world through their own prism of life - yes even medical experts.

I feel many of those managing the pandemic have limited understanding of the full impacts on society. I agreed with lockdowns early in the pandemic - pre vaccines. But there seems to be a distinct lack of empathy by some of the full impacts. Feel free to warn us why freedom should be linked to vaccination status. But please admit it isn't perfect and there are victims both ways.

I am also quite tired of the catastrophism. It helps nobody, and I refute the claim the public are complacent. How can anyone be complacent the way the world's media behaves?