Could Marianne Vos ride for a men ProTour team one day?

[Waterloo Sunrise]

She certainly got a much higher w/kg than 16 y.o men, in fact higher than most professional men if the article is correct. So whilst she would probably have problems on the flat I wouldn't be surprised if she could outclimb quite a few men.

I'm inclined to call bull**** if they're claiming she can generate a genuinely high enough wattage to produce a serious Watts/Kilo for a serious length of time, unless she's so light the weight of the bike wipes out the performance.

As for the suggestion she might do it purely for her own experience, I find that rather pathetic and insulting to the integrity of the competition. We don't send talented men who lack a winning mentality off to women's races to beat up on them and learn how to win - it would be equally stupid.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Please don't quote me when you're posting something so unpleasant.

 

[Angliru]

Could you be any more wrong??? What is to be gained by such statements??

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Could be be any more wrong??? What is to be gained by such statements??

it's called humor. it's like charisma. you either have it or not

 

[Angliru]

it's called humor. it's like charisma. you either have it or not

Some humor (since that is what you're calling it) is best left unsaid. It's like class. You either have it or not.

If this were your sister or girlfriend and I posted what you said about Voss, would you find it funny or insulting?

 

[theyoungest]

Donno the protocols for these tests but according to Michele Ferrari's blog any value over 6w/kg start to be suspicious (6w/kg is considered a value for GT and Classics winners).

Yes, but that's the value for an entire climb. So one hour of 6 W/kg. A lot of pros will be able to do more than 6 W/kg in the max test as done by Rabo.

it's called humor. it's like charisma. you either have it or not

And you clearly don't. Okay, maybe the sense of humor of a 12 year old boy.

 

[palmerq]

I agree, leave the sexist nonsense out please.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Some humor (since that is what you're calling it) is best left unsaid. It's like class. You either have it or not.

If this were your sister or girlfriend and I posted what you said about Voss, would you find it funny or insulting?

then I pray for you you never come to the netherlands. we have no class

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I actually mentioned the possibility of this in a much more ridiculous way 18 months ago.

Marianne can win pretty much anything she puts her mind to, and while that's indicative of a special talent, it's also very tough on the motivation.

Magdalena Neuner has been less dominant in the biathlon than Marianne has been on two wheels, and still, after 10 World Championships and 2 Olympic golds, 3 more Worlds medals and another Olympic medal, 2 World Cup overall titles and several more World Cup titles in various disciplines (and seemingly on her way to a third), she has decided to retire at the end of the season as there is simply nothing left for her to achieve in the sport. Magdalena Neuner is 24 years old.

Vos of course has some unfinished business - that streak of silver medals at the Worlds being the most obvious - but it's easy to see her becoming unmotivated, with nothing to aim at that she hasn't already achieved before, except statistics padding. As indicated, this could be little more than a gimmick to keep her motivated. After all, the article title only specifies "men's races", not, as the article suggests, with ProTour Team Rabobank (as also suggested by the thread title); the Blijlevens quotes do not specify the ProTour version either. Maybe if they're serious about this they could enter her with Rabobank Continental at some of the men's amateur races; she's much more likely to play a part in a .2 race; I'm not going to say she'd compete for the win or anything but it's certainly more realistic to imagine her riding in races like the Flèche du Sud and Paris-Troyes with the feeder team than for the ProTour Rabobank team.

 

[TheEnoculator]

I'm inclined to call bull**** if they're claiming she can generate a genuinely high enough wattage to produce a serious Watts/Kilo for a serious length of time, unless she's so light the weight of the bike wipes out the performance.

As for the suggestion she might do it purely for her own experience, I find that rather pathetic and insulting to the integrity of the competition. We don't send talented men who lack a winning mentality off to women's races to beat up on them and learn how to win - it would be equally stupid.

They should send Andy Schleck to Giro Donne.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

They should send Andy Schleck to Giro Donne.

He'd keep looking over his shoulder looking for Fränk and forget to attack anyway.

In 2010, in July, the two best climbers of each gender fought out a queen stage on a mythical, historic mountain pass.

The men pinched each other's cheeks, held each other's hands and a blossoming bromance unfolded. The women tried to race each other, break each other and beat each other.

 

[TheEnoculator]

OK, look, I hear some of your arguments and I'm starting to change my stand here.

There is a reason why men and women are separated in professional sports: they are completely different physiologically. In general, men have much higher muscle masses and bone masses than women. And men have much lower body fat percentages than women, because men and women have different reproductive purposes.

This is why everytime whenever we see women playing with men in pro sports, they usually fail to make an impact because men and women are completely different.

Ultimately, for Marianne, the team wants her to be motivated, and yes, they should find some other way to do it rather than putting her in men's races. It's all fine and good to say the purpose is to motivate her and for her to learn, but regardless of how she'd do, at the end, she'll have to go back to the sport she dominates, and she'd lose her motivation again. She can't stay in the men's team, and even if she could, and she continues to get bad results, there'd be worse for her career.

Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond, than being a small fish in the ocean.

This is an overall problem in women's cycling. You don't have enough funding to properly train young talents in these trade teams, so you get huge gaps among the very best and the rest of them. You keep hearing the same names over and over, Arndt, Vos, Pooley, Bronzini, Compton, because how much they dominate cycling and the rest are just hanging on to their coattails. It's a bad way to develop cycling, and would waste a lot of potentially talented riders who could raise the profile of the sport.

Then again, cycling is a very male dominated sport, so there will always be some sexists who think women cyclists are just side dishes. Sites like cyclepassion.com that sexualize women cyclists aren't helping the cause.

 

[rgmerk]

An amateur climbing race...

There wouldn't be any point putting her in a major pro race - obviously, she'd get blown away in crosswinds. I'm sure she knows it too.

However, I reckon she'd have a lot of fun racing at whatever the more convenient equivalent of Victorian state open A level is, particularly in hillier races rather than flat windy slugfests. I don't think she'd win very often, but she wouldn't be out of place in the bunch.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Marianne Vos in the same Rabo physics test as the men:

6.63 w/kg


That's...astonishing (considering Gesink this year was 6.7 and all time best 7.0 from eltink + gesink)

Also higher than Menchov and T.Dekker in their Rabo period and about the same level as Kruijswijk.. lol

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

somebody aksed for the figures

Most woman don't even break the 5.50, no miracle Vos dominates like hell.

 

[theyoungest]

Marianne Vos in the same Rabo physics test as the men:

6.63 w/kg


That's...astonishing (considering Gesink this year was 6.7 and all time best 7.0 from eltink + gesink)

Also higher than Menchov and T.Dekker in their Rabo period and about the same level as Kruijswijk.. lol

Vos is probably in better form though than most men are when they do this test in early January... Gesink's all time best is a result from his first year, when he did the test a little later I think. He must have improved since then, even if it's just a little...

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

yeah his tests in the summer just before the tour kept improving each year, even in 2011

so the beginning of the year test definately doesn't say all.

 

[rgmerk]

Marianne Vos in the same Rabo physics test as the men:

6.63 w/kg


That's...astonishing (considering Gesink this year was 6.7 and all time best 7.0 from eltink + gesink)

Also higher than Menchov and T.Dekker in their Rabo period and about the same level as Kruijswijk.. lol

Sorry, I may have missed this, but do we have a source for this (the comparative numbers as well as Vos's results)? And what's the testing protocol?

I find it very hard to believe that any woman could have power/weight numbers anywhere near a GT winner like Menchov. It would be unprecedented - in any sport.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

look above you

 

[theyoungest]

Sorry, I may have missed this, but do we have a source for this (the comparative numbers as well as Vos's results)? And what's the testing protocol?

I find it very hard to believe that any woman could have power/weight numbers anywhere near a GT winner like Menchov. It would be unprecedented - in any sport.

Take into account what I've said above, about the moment in the season when they perform this test... Menchov doesn't even make the top 20 anymore. He scored 6.5 W/kg, that's less than Pieter Weening or Stef Clement (to name just two).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond, than being a small fish in the ocean.

A small fish may get eaten in the ocean, but in a small pond a big fish that's already eaten all the other fishes will starve.

Why couldn't she do some amateur races? We don't necessarily see what she needs to achieve from this to motivate herself either. Even if she gets dropped from the péloton, she can see what the gap is. If she can go a long way before being dropped, then the next goal is a bit further. Then just staying in the péloton. She doesn't need to be winning the races to be motivated.

Ultimately, what would YOU suggest she do to motivate herself, given that she's 24 years old and is already a World Champion on the road, a World Champion and Olympic Champion on the track, a World Champion four times in cyclocross, an overall World Cup winner multiple times, and now that the Tour de l'Aude has died the death she's won every major stage race there is to win as well, as well as most of the WC one-day races.

Apart from the Ronde and the Olympic RR, there isn't a lot left for her to achieve, and probably at least 10 more years of career. And if Magdalena Neuner can get unmotivated at having achieved everything possible at 24, then it can only be more of a temptation to give up for Vos considering that she's unlikely as a female cyclist to be giving up the same kind of sponsorship as a female biathlete (and a photogenic and German one at that) either.

As long as people don't get stupidly unrealistic about it, I don't see what harm it can do. At best, she is motivated, she can hack it to some extent and goes back time and time again improving each time. And the media pay attention to some very small races as a result and give the sponsors of those races coverage they never normally would get. At worst, she isn't very good and she goes back to racing against the other women.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Adrie van Diemen, trainer from Garmin and who does the same tests with all Garmin riders every year, explains that if Marianne Vos tests have been done correctly, that she could belong to the best climbers in the peloton of the men.
http://nos.nl/video/329675-vos-wil-graag-tegen-mannen-rijden.html

 

[Kwibus]

then I pray for you you never come to the netherlands. we have no class

Please don't let people think your a typical dutch person.

I doubt they would as people ain't that stupid, but I still wanted to point it out

 

[Skip Madness]

Marianne Vos is obviously an amazing natural athlete and potentially having problems staying motivated would not be hard to understand. But it would be nice if the women's calendar didn't make it so Vos-conducive. The Giro is he hardest race, and although the race she won last year wasn't easy, I'd really like to see her against Abbott, Pooley etc. on a course like one of the old Giri or Grandes Boucles. If she were still dominating in races like that then you couldn't make any argument at all, but it's frustrating that we don't know how good any of these riders are in proper stage races with proper mountains (Giro 2010 was - or should have been - the start of something better, but after last year's reduction in difficulty it's not looking optimistic for the future, especially when the Giro organisers were told not to go up the proper side of the Mortirolo last year because it would be "too hard for the women").

 

[Kwibus]

Adrie van Diemen, trainer from Garmin and who does the same tests with all Garmin riders every year, explains that if Marianne Vos tests have been done correctly, that she could belong to the best climbers in the peloton of the men.
http://nos.nl/video/329675-vos-wil-graag-tegen-mannen-rijden.html

Allthough I really doubt she will be able to come in with the first 50 on a MTF in a WT race. These test results are amazing, but it's hard to imagine she would be capable of such a thing as a woman among PRO man.

I love to see her try it some day though!

p.s. Marianna weights 53kg.