Cricket- the sport not the insect

[ramjambunath]

Craig, considering NZ have been so effective in cleaning up the tail, would you bring in Trent Boult for the second test. Who goes- Southee or Bracewell. I'd bring him in for Southee, I like Dougie Bracewell.

ACF- There's nobody in domestic cricket who could replace Clarke. Remove the 150 he scored in the first test in SAF and Australia would have totalled 170 in both innings combined.
Just from the top of my head, David Hussey could be tried but it's clear that he struggles against quality spin. Chris Lynn is definitely not test match level yet and North proved his problems in tests and I don't think Voges is in any way better than Clarke. That leaves SA and Tas, Klinger could make his way in and maybe Ferguson but Clarke's footwork is way better than Klinger and Ferguson can't hold a candle to Clarke. Tasmania have Cosgrove but he won't be selected because of his fitness. This is just considering Clarke the batsman, Clarke the captain is of a very high quality. He is already way better than Ponting and if can keep Australia relatively successful, I'd rate him above Waugh as well.

427 all out.

 

[craig1985]

Yeah I would look at Boult for Southee. The problem if there is no movement for Southee, he can struggle to get wickets, and Boult AFAIK has some pace about him. I don't really rate Southee as a tail ender, it's either 'hit sixes or get out'. Iain O'Brien showed more spine then Southee has shown. His reckless shot yesterday is what cost NZ from getting 300 for mine.

For ODIs and T20, yes Southee does deserve a spot in the team.

 

[ramjambunath]

I agree, but he will be considered for the next match is at the Bellerive and it normally swings there.

McCullum gone.

 

[craig1985]

Ryan ten Doeschate blasts 121* off 58 balls for Mashonaland in their T20 match against Matabeland. Mashonaland scored 207 ofr their 20 overs.

Solid effort that.

 

[craig1985]

Australia will win this by an innings. Trademark NZ collapse about to happen.

 

[ramjambunath]

6 down
Five on debut seems to be fashionable now. Lyon, Philander, Cummins, Pattinson, Bracewell. Who else?

ten Doeschate went mental yesterday. Eagles vs Mountaineers later today.

 

[craig1985]

It's hard to rate Jesse Ryder as a Test batsman, that was a low percentage shot that didn't to be played when his team was just starting to fight back.

 

[daveinzambia]

Just got back from a ride and it is all over. well that's ruined my plans for the rest of the day

 

[daveinzambia]

Ryan ten Doeschate blasts 121* off 58 balls for Mashonaland in their T20 match against Matabeland. Mashonaland scored 207 ofr their 20 overs.

Solid effort that.

121 of 58 = solid.

remind me never to play cricket with you

 

[ramjambunath]

121 of 58 = solid.

remind me never to play cricket with you

Missed the first hour as always as it's too early and I could tolerate the loss of one wicket but five. They'll be done by lunch.

Hussey gets a wicket. Vettori gone. NZ done by lunch. 7/121.

9 down for 141. Good plans to get Southee. Chris Martin, the walking wicket, walks in. Reece Young not giving him the strike.

Another duck for Martin, Young cost him a precious run.

Good win for Australia. Hughes stupidly got out chasing 19. Clarke my MoM, very good captaincy and very good, albeit a bit lucky, knock.

 

[greenedge]

It's hard to rate Jesse Ryder as a Test batsman, that was a low percentage shot that didn't to be played when his team was just starting to fight back.

I swear i said to put Lyon on and Clarke somehow heard me. It worked.

NZ were awful. We bowled well though.

 

[craig1985]

Two things you can be certain of from NZ, they won't finish the tail off quickly and in the 2nd innings they will collapse. Ross Taylor and Jesse Ryder annoy me greatly, the talent if there, but some of the brain dead shots that they play can be infuriating. All Taylor had to do was survive until Lunch on Day 1, then he plays a loose shot and plays on, and earlier today Williamson and Taylor didn't need to play at the balls that got them out. Good bowling from Pattinson to lure them into the strokes though.

Also the dropped catches didn't help, Reece Young can be forgiven for dropping Clarke on 85 as the ball started to swing away as he started to move in the other direction, put it this way, it wasn't a Kamram Akmal-esque drop, but Ryder dropping Clarke on 106, cost NZ and extra 33 runs, and Taylor dropping Starc on 0, cost them 32 runs, so that's an extra 65 runs they had to chase, so 127 runs becomes a 65 run deficit, and the pressure on the NZ team changes, though Doug Bracewell bowling Clarke off a no-ball didn't help, and who knows maybe NZ might have got a lead, or Australia's lead would have been small, but it's all irrelevant now though. Dean Brownlie can come out of the Test with his head held high as he showed a lot of fight and backbone, something the guys ahead of him couldn't show, and I think he can have a future as a Test cricketer. Mark Richardson was never the most talented of openers, but he showed plenty of ticker and got the best out of himself, and for mine, that's all you can do. Iain O'Brien was the same and that's why he was loved so much by NZ fans.

Pattinson aside, I think Starc is a good prospect, he has pace and he has height as well. Trent Copeland might be ruing the scheduling from when he arrived back from South Africa as he didn't have time to play a FC match for NSW to push his chances for selection and in my mind would have been ahead of Cutting, Pattinson, and Starc in the pecking order, and although he's not the quickest, he is pretty accurate as a bowler.

I'm disappointed, but it doesn't surprise me in the end. I don't want BJ Watling to play in the next Test, Starc and Pattinson will be way too quick for him.

 

[42x16ss]

Oh please! It was against New Zealand and yes he did play well but when I see it on a consistent basis and when the selectors show some spine and drop players like him when they play **** maybe I will give him and the selectors less of a hard time. He also bats lower down the order as well. Number 5 is where all batsmen want bat whether it is at an international level or local club level.

Consistent basis? The guy has scored 3 hundreds in his last four tests. The rest of the team hasn't scored one between them.

But hey, lets drop Clarke before Ponting, Hussey and the real underperformer - Phil Hughes.

 

[ramjambunath]

Two things you can be certain of from NZ, they won't finish the tail off quickly and in the 2nd innings they will collapse. Ross Taylor and Jesse Ryder annoy me greatly, the talent if there, but some of the brain dead shots that they play can be infuriating. All Taylor had to do was survive until Lunch on Day 1, then he plays a loose shot and plays on, and earlier today Williamson and Taylor didn't need to play at the balls that got them out. Good bowling from Pattinson to lure them into the strokes though. ...

...Pattinson aside, I think Starc is a good prospect, he has pace and he has height as well. Trent Copeland might be ruing the scheduling from when he arrived back from South Africa as he didn't have time to play a FC match for NSW to push his chances for selection and in my mind would have been ahead of Cutting, Pattinson, and Starc in the pecking order, and although he's not the quickest, he is pretty accurate as a bowler.

I'm disappointed, but it doesn't surprise me in the end. I don't want BJ Watling to play in the next Test, Starc and Pattinson will be way too quick for him.

Nice rant.

I believe the lack of defence in batting has to do something with the limited over culture and a lack of quality bowling in FC cricket (something they're trying to change by signing Finn like bowlers). Fleming and Richardson didn't have an average of 40 but he would definitely be in my team ahead of Ryder and Taylor. It's a sad indictment that Vettori is NZ's Allan Border with the bat so often, not considering his bowling. Their fielding was inexcusable, with a weak bowling attack (which NZ's definitely is) the team has to take every opportunity possible. Even Hughes in his stupid second innings was dropped.

Cricinfo came up with a stupid comment saying that today was an aberration like Australia's 47, both of which weren't aberrations but have been the norm. New Zealand can't beat a team ravaged by injuries, lacking their only decent opener and all their opening bowlers.

I'm happy that Copeland is back where he belongs- in FC cricket. Just imagine him opening the bowling at 120kmph to Sehwag or Gayle, whenever he plays.

On a side note, I have a problem with the No Ball referral. It is required but is it only to be verified in case of a wicket. Imagine how important a missed no ball could have been for India and WI in the drawn match. I believe that the third umpire should verify every ball and either remove no balls from the field umpires jurisdiction or call a no ball every time the umpire misses it.

 

[ramjambunath]

Two things you can be certain of from NZ, they won't finish the tail off quickly and in the 2nd innings they will collapse. Ross Taylor and Jesse Ryder annoy me greatly, the talent if there, but some of the brain dead shots that they play can be infuriating. All Taylor had to do was survive until Lunch on Day 1, then he plays a loose shot and plays on, and earlier today Williamson and Taylor didn't need to play at the balls that got them out. Good bowling from Pattinson to lure them into the strokes though. ...

...Pattinson aside, I think Starc is a good prospect, he has pace and he has height as well. Trent Copeland might be ruing the scheduling from when he arrived back from South Africa as he didn't have time to play a FC match for NSW to push his chances for selection and in my mind would have been ahead of Cutting, Pattinson, and Starc in the pecking order, and although he's not the quickest, he is pretty accurate as a bowler.

I'm disappointed, but it doesn't surprise me in the end. I don't want BJ Watling to play in the next Test, Starc and Pattinson will be way too quick for him.

Nice rant.

I believe the lack of defence in batting has to do something with the limited over culture and a lack of quality bowling in FC cricket (something they're trying to change by signing Finn like bowlers). Fleming didn't have an average of 40 but he would definitely be in my team ahead of Ryder and Taylor. It's a sad indictment that Vettori is NZ's Allan Border with the bat so often, not considering his bowling. Their fielding was inexcusable, with a weak bowling attack (which NZ's definitely is) the team has to take every opportunity possible. Even Hughes in his stupid second innings was dropped.

Cricinfo came up with a stupid comment saying that today was an aberration like Australia's 47, both of which weren't aberrations but have been the norm. New Zealand can't beat a team ravaged by injuries, lacking their only decent opener and all their opening bowlers.

I'm happy that Copeland is back where he belongs- in FC cricket. Just imagine him opening the bowling at 120kmph to Sehwag or Gayle, whenever he plays.

On a side note, I have a problem with the No Ball referral. It is required but is it only to be verified in case of a wicket. Imagine how important a missed no ball could have been for India and WI in the drawn match. I believe that the third umpire should verify every ball and either remove no balls from the field umpires jurisdiction or call a no ball every time the umpire misses it.

 

[auscyclefan94]

TIME TO GO HUGHES!!!

The guy has been given too many chances. He doesn't have the technique nor mindset to open or be a test batsmen. His innings showed someone who was totally undisciplined and doesn't value their wicket.

 

[yellowjersey]

First i've seen a cricket thread! And yes not the insect

 

[craig1985]

Nice rant.

I believe the lack of defence in batting has to do something with the limited over culture and a lack of quality bowling in FC cricket (something they're trying to change by signing Finn like bowlers). Fleming didn't have an average of 40 but he would definitely be in my team ahead of Ryder and Taylor. It's a sad indictment that Vettori is NZ's Allan Border with the bat so often, not considering his bowling. Their fielding was inexcusable, with a weak bowling attack (which NZ's definitely is) the team has to take every opportunity possible. Even Hughes in his stupid second innings was dropped.

Cricinfo came up with a stupid comment saying that today was an aberration like Australia's 47, both of which weren't aberrations but have been the norm. New Zealand can't beat a team ravaged by injuries, lacking their only decent opener and all their opening bowlers.

I'm happy that Copeland is back where he belongs- in FC cricket. Just imagine him opening the bowling at 120kmph to Sehwag or Gayle, whenever he plays.

On a side note, I have a problem with the No Ball referral. It is required but is it only to be verified in case of a wicket. Imagine how important a missed no ball could have been for India and WI in the drawn match. I believe that the third umpire should verify every ball and either remove no balls from the field umpires jurisdiction or call a no ball every time the umpire misses it.

That's the thing that is most frustrating, generally NZ is actually a good fielding team when it comes to catching and their ground fielding. I think that there is no value the NZ batsmen place on their wicket, there seems to be the problem of scoring hundreds and putting on big partnerships. Only Ryder can tell you why he tried to hit Lyon which led to him getting out, but it was a low percentage play given how many wickets had been lost and so few runs on the board.

I'll agree with you on the No Ball referral, at the end of the day, it's simple, don't bowl a no-ball. I know people like Sunil Gavaskar disagrees with the whole concept, but he will be the first to moan if the umpire gets something wrong. And the BCCI shouldn't have a say in whether the DRS system is used in the upcoming Test series, but Cricket Australia lack a pair and insist that it is used, I mean what is the BCCI going to do? Boycott the tour?

 

[Spider1964]

TIME TO GO HUGHES!!!

The guy has been given too many chances. He doesn't have the technique nor mindset to open or be a test batsmen. His innings showed someone who was totally undisciplined and doesn't value their wicket.

That was not a good time to get out cheaply, but I get the feeling he still has some credits with the selectors.

Last test 88 v South Africa
Two tests previous 126 v Sri Lanka

Hey ACF, the guy who can't bat is heading to his second hundred in three tests so far this summer....

Not a fan of him as a person but I think he gets some unfair criticism as a cricketer.

Agree with this (As I did previously in this thread when the knives were out )

FFS, he's averaging 69.5 in his last 5 hits at number 5 and ACF wants to change his batting position in the order?? Old saying... don't change what isn't broken.

In his past four tests batting at 5 -

112 v Sri Lanka
151 v South Africa (Coming in at 3/40 against a very new ball!!)
139 v New Zealand

The numbers don't lie.

 

[ramjambunath]

I'll agree with you on the No Ball referral, at the end of the day, it's simple, don't bowl a no-ball. I know people like Sunil Gavaskar disagrees with the whole concept, but he will be the first to moan if the umpire gets something wrong. And the BCCI shouldn't have a say in whether the DRS system is used in the upcoming Test series, but Cricket Australia lack a pair and insist that it is used, I mean what is the BCCI going to do? Boycott the tour?

I wouldn't blame only CA here. If BCCI has a hegemony which every other nation is opposed to (I think the BCCI play a destructive role in cricket), then these countries should grow a pair and vote against silly resolutions like scrapping the Test world championships in 2013. I also don't understand BCCI's problem with DRS, if the DRS gets 1 decision a match correct more than the umpire then it's a good system. I don't like the way it's called (by players) in its current state.

The Indian media are bunch of whingers, I'll try to refresh some of their memories if ever they come here. It was because of India's whinge in Sydney that the DRS concept was introduced. After that, it was tested in Sri Lanka and Kumble wasn't great in calling referrals and the BCCI decided not to have it. The rule was imposed prior to the England tour with some accommodations, which should have never been allowed. The BCCI commentary team of Ravi Shastri and Gavaskar whined right through the series about the DRS. One decision particularly sticks in my mind, Dravid was given out caught behind after his bat clicked his shoelace and he decided not to refer. The Infra red Hot spot camera showed no edge and cue the whines that Hot spot isn't fool proof. About 15 minutes later after viewing it in every angle it was clear what happened and it clearly wasn't a flaw with the DRS but Dravid's decision not to call yet for the remaining part of the tour we had to hear stories of DRS being a sham. Add to that Vaughan's comments, which fueled a raging proverbial fire and the DRS was made optional again.

NEO sports were vehemently supporting it and then after the England series they even scrapped hawk eye for telecast purposes. Load of ****.


Yellowjersey- English or Australian or some other?

Spider- how was your time in South Africa?

 

[craig1985]

I used to post on a cricket forum and the general meme was to blame everything on the BCCI

 

[Ferminal]

TIME TO GO HUGHES!!!

The guy has been given too many chances. He doesn't have the technique nor mindset to open or be a test batsmen. His innings showed someone who was totally undisciplined and doesn't value their wicket.

Clarke is either naive, stupid or intentionally misleading in his defense of Hughes.

Who is the last opener to play for Australia more than 16 tests and average 36?

Hughes was dropped 5 games into his career averaging over 50 - he made 472 runs in that period.

Since returning to the side, he's scored 576 runs in 11 tests. Clarke is saying that "he made 120 and 80 not long ago" - yet even in this period, starting with his ton against Sri Lanka, his average in 7 innings since then is around 37.

He was dropped during the 2009 Ashes because he was seen as technically vulnerable, particularly behind square on the off side. This problem clearly hasn't been remedied, and worse, his output has fallen dramatically.

Out of 29 dismissals, he's been caught 24 times - the overwhelming majority of these being between the keeper and gully.

 

[Spider1964]

Clarke is either naive, stupid or intentionally misleading in his defense of Hughes.

Who is the last opener to play for Australia more than 16 tests and average 36?

Hughes was dropped 5 games into his career averaging over 50 - he made 472 runs in that period.

Since returning to the side, he's scored 576 runs in 11 tests. Clarke is saying that "he made 120 and 80 not long ago" - yet even in this period, starting with his ton against Sri Lanka, his average in 7 innings since then is around 37.

He was dropped during the 2009 Ashes because he was seen as technically vulnerable, particularly behind square on the off side. This problem clearly hasn't been remedied, and worse, his output has fallen dramatically.

Out of 29 dismissals, he's been caught 24 times - the overwhelming majority of these being between the keeper and gully.

Geoff Marsh.

Played 50 tests and averaged 33.18.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/6499.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

 

[Ferminal]

Matthew Hayden spent three years in the wilderness after initially playing 7 tests and failing to impress. After earning a recall through tireless work in first class cricket, it took him several more tests to solidify his spot.

The difference to Hughes is that Hayden went back and earned a recall, taking many seasons. Hughes on the other hand went back to first class cricket and played several awful matches, but was quickly recalled less than a year after being dropped. 11 games in and he's still showing no signs of being able to consistently perform at a level needed to open for Australia.

I think the fair answer to my question would be Geoff Marsh, whose average fell to 35.97 after 21 tests and never recovered. Completely different era though.

 

[daveinzambia]

I think the issue with Hughes is he seems to have fundamental issues with his game.

teams seem to have figured him out, have plans to get his wicket, and more often than not those plans seem to work. This is not a case of bad form but rather bad technique.

not that long ago people were saying the same thing about Alistair Cook though.