Critérium du Dauphiné 2017 (04/06 > 11/06/2017)

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LRP goes full out for the last 2 km and cannot drop Fuglsang ... yep, Astana have found that 2015 secret sauce bottle.

Talansky and Bardet gave it a go - chapeau! Weird though that the GC guys seemed content to chug along until 2 km to go - Swift had a 4 minute lead over the peloton for the entire climb up the Col de Sarenne.
 
Re: Re:

lenric said:
People time and time again tend to make the mistake of assuming that the probability of past events will influence the probability of the same event happening one more time, when they are mutually exclusive events.


Anyway, last year the guy had an accident which wasn't his fault. In one of the first stages he lost 2 minutes because of a mechanical (or any other crap that wasn't his fault), otherwise he would have achieved a higher place.

Talking about his consistency as a GC contender, when he hasn't been consistent has a domestique isn't rational.

Problem with your stirring defence is that he HAS had GT leadership in recent years and they DO have some relevance.
I will grant that the 2014 TDF was a case of unforseen circumstances to Froome seeing an early race shift to Richie. For better or worse, he melted under the pressure.

He was given leadership for the 2015 Giro with supposedly "full 5 star" treatment by the team. What happened when he had an untimely puncture, he had a brain fart, panicked and made decisions that cost him dearly. From then on, he was basically "out to lunch" before SKY decided to drag him on the 2nd rest day.

His ride last year was good but neither was it anything earth-shattering. Were there any stage wins or even any stage top 3's .... no. A couple of stage top10s and a 4th on the short uphill ITT was IT. Yes, he lost time with the untimely wheel change and arguably poor team support on that occaision but it was also the case that Richie "the super TTer" went AWOL during the longer ITT and was slower than significantly less credentialled TTers like AY & Quintana. His ride overall was one of someone playing more a game of attrition/survival and seeing how high he could end up rather than any display of going out there and carving a trail of destruction and leaving his rivals in his wake.

By no means am I saying that he cannot go out there and win the TDF and blaze his superiority across the expanses of France for us all to see ... he may do that. What I, and others, are saying that he HAS a record as a GT leader and at best its "equivocal" and that there are clear reasons to question his composure under pressure ..... and he WILL be under far more pressure at this year's Tour than he has ever faced before.
 
Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
Problem with your stirring defence is that he HAS had GT leadership in recent years and they DO have some relevance.
I will grant that the 2014 TDF was a case of unforseen circumstances to Froome seeing an early race shift to Richie. For better or worse, he melted under the pressure.

No point arguing he failed when he wasn't prepared to be the leader.
If you and/or your team have you as a backup plan and you train with that on your mind, then you'll fail if you don't accomplish anything, given the opportunity. That wasn't the case, so it's really a no-brainer.

dirkprovin said:
He was given leadership for the 2015 Giro with supposedly "full 5 star" treatment by the team. What happened when he had an untimely puncture, he had a brain fart, panicked and made decisions that cost him dearly. From then on, he was basically "out to lunch" before SKY decided to drag him on the 2nd rest day.

Yes, he had a dumb decision. But his team didn't warn him either. So it wasn't his sole responsability. But yes, I agree that almost all the responsability was his.

Either way, he had lost another 2/3 minutes due to a crash and nobody knows how that affected him.

dirkprovin said:
His ride last year was good but neither was it anything earth-shattering. Were there any stage wins or even any stage top 3's .... no. A couple of stage top10s and a 4th on the short uphill ITT was IT. Yes, he lost time with the untimely wheel change and arguably poor team support on that occaision but it was also the case that Richie "the super TTer" went AWOL during the longer ITT and was slower than significantly less credentialled TTers like AY & Quintana. His ride overall was one of someone playing more a game of attrition/survival and seeing how high he could end up rather than any display of going out there and carving a trail of destruction and leaving his rivals in his wake.

Contador also has 3 Giro's in the bag without having won any stage, so that's really a strange premisis you're trying to pull to sustain your argument.

Nobody has honestly argued that Porte would be head and shoulders above everyone, nor did I read the same about his performance in last year's TDF. But you did, apparently, so I ask you to show me those posts.
In fact, several people here have said that his ITT performance was subpar compared to what he has done previously.

dirkprovin said:
By no means am I saying that he cannot go out there and win the TDF and blaze his superiority across the expanses of France for us all to see ... he may do that. What I, and others, are saying that he HAS a record as a GT leader and at best its "equivocal" and that there are clear reasons to question his composure under pressure ..... and he WILL be under far more pressure at this year's Tour than he has ever faced before.

What I'm saying is that different GTs are mutually exclusive events, so the probability of "x" happening on a future GT isn't correlated with previous similar events on previous GTs. This is pretty simple to understand.

But even if we want to follow your logic, his most recent example of a GT performance was pretty good, so upward trend!

However, I agree with you. He's under more pressure this year than in the last.
 
What were people's take on Bradley Wiggins in 2012? Basically in Porte we have Wiggins 2.0. If he wins the Dauphine tomorrow (as expected) he will be 3 for 4 in 1-week stage races in 2017 and enter the Tour with the best current form.

Wiggins went off as the favorite at 5 to 4 odds for the Tour and delivered, so at least there is precedence.
 
I remember a thread last year about the top 10 GT riders - and a lot came up around it being absurd to even consider Porte in that list.

I thought at the time that to some degree, that was justified.....given his history of bad days etc.

But I think things have changed very significantly in the last year. The derision has rightly disappeared, and I think it's very clear that without bad luck, a tdf podium is ripe for the harvest, and a win is certainly possible. That in itself shows how much he's matured in the last year.
 
Re: Re:

lenric said:
dirkprovin said:
Problem with your stirring defence is that he HAS had GT leadership in recent years and they DO have some relevance.
I will grant that the 2014 TDF was a case of unforseen circumstances to Froome seeing an early race shift to Richie. For better or worse, he melted under the pressure.

No point arguing he failed when he wasn't prepared to be the leader.
If you and/or your team have you as a backup plan and you train with that on your mind, then you'll fail if you don't accomplish anything, given the opportunity. That wasn't the case, so it's really a no-brainer.

dirkprovin said:
He was given leadership for the 2015 Giro with supposedly "full 5 star" treatment by the team. What happened when he had an untimely puncture, he had a brain fart, panicked and made decisions that cost him dearly. From then on, he was basically "out to lunch" before SKY decided to drag him on the 2nd rest day.

Yes, he had a dumb decision. But his team didn't warn him either. So it wasn't his sole responsability. But yes, I agree that almost all the responsability was his.

Either way, he had lost another 2/3 minutes due to a crash and nobody knows how that affected him.

dirkprovin said:
His ride last year was good but neither was it anything earth-shattering. Were there any stage wins or even any stage top 3's .... no. A couple of stage top10s and a 4th on the short uphill ITT was IT. Yes, he lost time with the untimely wheel change and arguably poor team support on that occaision but it was also the case that Richie "the super TTer" went AWOL during the longer ITT and was slower than significantly less credentialled TTers like AY & Quintana. His ride overall was one of someone playing more a game of attrition/survival and seeing how high he could end up rather than any display of going out there and carving a trail of destruction and leaving his rivals in his wake.

Contador also has 3 Giro's in the bag without having won any stage, so that's really a strange premisis you're trying to pull to sustain your argument.

Nobody has honestly argued that Porte would be head and shoulders above everyone, nor did I read the same about his performance in last year's TDF. But you did, apparently, so I ask you to show me those posts.
In fact, several people here have said that his ITT performance was subpar compared to what he has done previously.

dirkprovin said:
By no means am I saying that he cannot go out there and win the TDF and blaze his superiority across the expanses of France for us all to see ... he may do that. What I, and others, are saying that he HAS a record as a GT leader and at best its "equivocal" and that there are clear reasons to question his composure under pressure ..... and he WILL be under far more pressure at this year's Tour than he has ever faced before.

What I'm saying is that different GTs are mutually exclusive events, so the probability of "x" happening on a future GT isn't correlated with previous similar events on previous GTs. This is pretty simple to understand.

But even if we want to follow your logic, his most recent example of a GT performance was pretty good, so upward trend!

However, I agree with you. He's under more pressure this year than in the last.

To your point one, I said that he had a reasonable "out" however the nature of that melt-down was pretty darned ugly

Giro episode. Sorry but no sale !! That one was purely and completely on his head. HE made a total rookie error by going to the wrong side of the road where both his team car, team mates or even neutral service would NOT be looking. From a first year pro, completely forgivable but this was his 6th pro season .... no excuses. The Clarke wheel exchange whilst very honourably intended was a total brain fart on his part. There was the time loss there plus the 2 min penalty but his "surrender" in the ITT (esp when we have been sold on Richie the super time trialist) wasn't real pretty to watch and just added more ammo to the case against him.

Re point three; my contention is against those who have been claiming that last year was a podium deprived by bad luck. Yes, arithmetically that is correct but then again would he have been seen differently by the likes of SKY & Movi had he not had that time loss .... and most likely "worked over" as he almost certainly will be next month. Completely agree that it is not a pre-requisite to win a stage whilst winning a GT; it's rather to make the point that he really wasn't riding any better than those around him on the standings.

As I said earlier on the thread, I'm not anti Porte at all; I regard him as an excellent rider who is probably close to the top of the tree in one week races. He was one of the best climbing super-domestiques of this decade and on one of his good days, he can produce an outstanding ITT (albeit he tends to be inconsistent). Perhaps I'm slightly jaundiced by the Richie boosting that goes on in AUS cycling media but in any case, I'm not exactly convinced he can hold what is clearly career best form and condition right through the next 5 weeks because whilst Richie's good, he's exceptionally good but when he goes off ...... he's "off"
 
Re:

DanielSong39 said:
What were people's take on Bradley Wiggins in 2012? Basically in Porte we have Wiggins 2.0. If he wins the Dauphine tomorrow (as expected) he will be 3 for 4 in 1-week stage races in 2017 and enter the Tour with the best current form.

Wiggins went off as the favorite at 5 to 4 odds for the Tour and delivered, so at least there is precedence.

Wiggins was a little different in that he had the perfect course for him and he cleaned up in the TTs much more than Porte ever will. Porte is a good TT rider but even in last year's Tour his first TT in the crosswinds was not good for him partly due to the conditions I suppose as the little guys suffered that day. Interestingly Porte said after his TT win in the Dauphine that he would rather be climbing well which gives me the impression that he thinks this Tour will be won in the mountains.
 
Today's finale starting 11.25 CET (you'll be done watching before tea-time)
stage-8-profile.jpg


Last climb
stage-8-plateau-de-solaison.jpg


Expect 2 groups - one GC guys and support, the other, people out for a training ride. If Astana have extra croissants to breakfast and go nuts, it could be fun. Otherwise "Dawg descending"(TM) could be the highlight.
 
Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
[quote="

Ah, yes, Richie the great TTer is the line we are so often fed ..... but his record doesn't really back that up. He's most definitely NOT a pure TTer of the Cancellara, Martin or Dennis variety and he's never remotely threatened the podium when he's ridden the TT at Worlds. Rather, he is someone who is capable of the exceptional TT on his day (which we saw a couple of days back) but neither is he a consistent performer in this discipline. You "pump up" his 2016 TDF yet he leaked minutes to Froome in the longer ITT and finished behind far less fancied TTers such as AY & Quintana. His GT record with ITTs is basically inconsistent; the excellent mixed in with the ordinary.

and (b) his capacity to handle being one of the out and out favourites at the TDF and being put under the blow-torch by the likes of SKY & Movistar. Last year, they didn't bother about him. This year, he's right there in their gunsights and his history under GT stress has not been one of triumph

Doing a bit of nitpicking here, in 2010 he only came 7 seconds behind Tony Martin, so he has threatened the podium. http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19456

I don't think Sky will be attacking Richie expressly (they'll probably just tempo every day) and Movistar should focus on Froome for the start of the race and adjust later for Porte if need be.
 
Jun 15, 2013
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Your daily trivia fact: US Secretary of State John Kerry broke his leg descending Col de la Colombiere on 2015. This is the side they will descend today.
BTW, a year later, he completed the ascend.
 
Re:

Robert5091 said:
Today's finale starting 11.25 CET (you'll be done watching before tea-time)
stage-8-profile.jpg


Last climb
stage-8-plateau-de-solaison.jpg


Expect 2 groups - one GC guys and support, the other, people out for a training ride. If Astana have extra croissants to breakfast and go nuts, it could be fun. Otherwise "Dawg descending"(TM) could be the highlight.
From km 3 to 4 it looks like at least 15% average...
 
Re: Re:

Laplaz said:
Robert5091 said:
Today's finale starting 11.25 CET (you'll be done watching before tea-time)
stage-8-profile.jpg


Last climb
stage-8-plateau-de-solaison.jpg


Expect 2 groups - one GC guys and support, the other, people out for a training ride. If Astana have extra croissants to breakfast and go nuts, it could be fun. Otherwise "Dawg descending"(TM) could be the highlight.
From km 3 to 4 it looks like at least 15% average...
Didn't you know that 11.3% is just that much steeper than 11.5%
 
Re:

Ricco' said:
ASO climb profiles are always s***. Don't you remember Finhaut-Emosson a few years back?

Also, painting the 9% sections black is a bit deceiving, since that color is usually for >10%

What I don't get is how km 1-2 with 7.1% is painted black but sections with over 8% are red.
 
Ben Swift, Vegard Stake Laengen (UAE Team Emirates)
Edvald Boasson Hagen, Ben O’Connor (Dimension Data)
Michael Gogl (Trek-Segafredo)
Roman Kreuziger, Esteban Chaves (Orica-Scott)
Petr Vakoc (Quick Step Floors)
Tony Gallopin (Lotto-Soudal)
Richard Carapaz, Jesus Herrada (Movistar)
Warren Barguil, Lennard Hofstede (Sunweb)
Simon Clarke, Dylan Van Baarle (Cannondale-Drapac)
Grega Bole (Bahrain-Merida)
Christoph Pfingsten (Bora-hansgrohe)
Thomas Voeckler (Direct Energie)
Alexey Lutsenko (Astana)
Pierre Latour (AG2R-La Mondiale)
Nils Politt (Katusha-Alpecin)
Antwan Tolhoek (LottoNL-Jumbo)