Cycle of Lies

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martinvickers

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DirtyWorks said:
This is problematic though as it becomes as the feelings amplify and behaviour will become more erratic without some kind of something to break the cycle. He's clearly got plenty of money, so no outside forces to inspire change either.

I don't wish that suffering on him either, but he apparently could never deal with it on his own, never got help, and still will not change despite the world telling him to go away.

The way I see it, either rock bottom will maybe fix him, or much more likely he'll simply die this bitter. Either way, leave him to it. Life ban, well earned, move on, lots of real problems to fix. Too late now to fix Lance's daddy issues.

There's something truly pathetic about his entire life now, seen in the round. But alhough I am interested in the book, I'm tired of watching the circus. Justice caught up, after a fashion. Let it deal with him.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
I don't wish that suffering on him either, but he apparently could never deal with it on his own, never got help, and still will not change despite the world telling him to go away.

I certainly don't wish any suffering on him. I am optimistic about humanity and think most people are redeemable.

multiple times in the book various friends and family members talk about how he really should seek help. This spans several decades. Ultimately he cuts these people out of his life.

In the end he still does not get it. Still trying to spin the narrative and paint Frankie, Betsy, and LeMond as evil. Nothing has changed
 
Mar 25, 2013
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I said this months ago as well, we do have to be careful about the whole impact of this on his mental well being. He deserved everything he got in a sporting context with his life ban and also his treatment of good people was exposed along the way. To be fair to Tygart and Bock as we seen in Wheelmen, they put it to Herman on this issue and for me, it has to take an effect. I've seen him in The Armstrong Lie and the interview with Matt Lawton alongside Emma and he looked aged and worn out with the world on his shoulders. That can't be healthy for no one. One person mentioned this at the time of the USADA report and he spoke a lot of sense even though he is in another sport was Jurgen Klopp(Borussia Dortmund manager in football) who specifically referred to his mental well being and that it was something that had to be taking into consideration while giving our reaction and opinions on Lance. Right since May 2010 when Landis blew it out in the open, he has day in day out full of stress with little respite. I often wondered to myself how I would deal with this level of worrying over this length of period if I was in his shoes. I dread the thought.

I don't want to see anyone get to rock bottom in life and that even includes Lance Armstrong as much as I dislike him. I happen to agree with RR and DirtyWorks that he needs help and get through these legal battles as quick as he can and get on with his life for his own sanity and his children's sake. Someone needs to help him get a lot of reality back into his life.

I can't comment on the book as the shops over here don't have it in yet so have to wait. I've check everywhere. I haven't read too much of the extracts either for the spoilers so therefore my opinion isn't based on this.
 
Aug 7, 2010
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gooner said:
I said this months ago as well, we do have to be careful about the whole impact of this on his mental well being. He deserved everything he got in a sporting context with his life ban and also his treatment of good people was exposed along the way. To be fair to Tygart and Bock as we seen in Wheelmen, they put it to Herman on this issue and for me, it has to take an effect. I've seen him in The Armstrong Lie and the interview with Matt Lawton alongside Emma and he looked aged and worn out with the world on his shoulders. That can't be healthy for no one. One person mentioned this at the time of the USADA report and he spoke a lot of sense even though he is in another sport was Jurgen Klopp(Borussia Dortmund manager in football) who specifically referred to his mental well being and that it was something that had to be taking into consideration while giving our reaction and opinions on Lance. Right since May 2010 when Landis blew it out in the open, he has day in day out full of stress with little respite. I often wondered to myself how I would deal with this level of worrying over this length of period if I was in his shoes. I dread the thought.

I don't want to see anyone get to rock bottom in life and that even includes Lance Armstrong as much as I dislike him. I happen to agree with RR and DirtyWorks that he needs help and get through these legal battles as quick as he can and get on with his life for his own sanity and his children's sake. Someone needs to help him get a lot of reality back into his life.

I can't comment on the book as the shops over here don't have it in yet so have to wait. I've check everywhere. I haven't read too much of the extracts either for the spoilers so therefore my opinion isn't based on this.

Agreed. While he is a DB, we can't lose sight of the fact that he has kids, and family that are suffering heavily due to action over which they had and have no control. Too bad.
 
Aug 5, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Max Testa admits instructing Kevin, Lance, George and Frankie about how to use EPO. He says he wanted them to be safe when thy eventualy decided to use it.......so much for George's claim Frankie taught him how to dope

That's why George apologized to Frankie, RR!

"I hated those motherfvkers - the Betsys, the LeMonds, Walsh, I hate him." Lance Armstrong, Cycle of Lies page 396
 
Aug 13, 2009
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elizab said:
That's why George apologized to Frankie, RR!

"I hated those motherfvkers - the Betsys, the LeMonds, Walsh, I hate him." Lance Armstrong, Cycle of Lies page 396

George comes off badly in the book. Comparing Floyd to Osama Bin Laden? That is a bit of stretch.

George jumped on the wrong boat....the one that is sinking
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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Race Radio said:
George comes off badly in the book. Comparing Floyd to Osama Bin Laden? That is a bit of stretch.

George jumped on the wrong boat....the one that is sinking

Georgie was never on any other boat, there's no jumping involved.
 
Race Radio said:
George comes off badly in the book. Comparing Floyd to Osama Bin Laden? That is a bit of stretch.

George jumped on the wrong boat....the one that is sinking

Alternately, Floyd has presented George with the terror that someone would actually tell the truth.

Comparing him to Bin Laden would then represent the degree of George's terror.

He must be very scared.

Dave.
 
Apr 14, 2010
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Fortyninefourteen said:
Agreed. While he is a DB, we can't lose sight of the fact that he has kids, and family that are suffering heavily due to action over which they had and have no control. Too bad.

So he needs to be a man and stop trying to leverage the situation. He cheated his way into millions. No one was crying for Bernie Madoff's kids. No one cries for the kids of people who embezzle money when they're punished. Probably the best thing for those kids is to not be around someone as toxic as him.
 
Aug 5, 2009
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therhodeo said:
So he needs to be a man and stop trying to leverage the situation. He cheated his way into millions. No one was crying for Bernie Madoff's kids. No one cries for the kids of people who embezzle money when they're punished. Probably the best thing for those kids is to not be around someone as toxic as him.

excellent comment.
 
therhodeo said:
So he needs to be a man and stop trying to leverage the situation. He cheated his way into millions. No one was crying for Bernie Madoff's kids. No one cries for the kids of people who embezzle money when they're punished. Probably the best thing for those kids is to not be around someone as toxic as him.

We don't know the kids situations and should leave them well out of any discussions for many reasons.

What we know is Lance is still doing great. He's not getting fired from Walmart and trying to manage the rent on a double-wide. Flying commercial to play golf in Hawaii while most of us work regular jobs is a terrible burden.
 
therhodeo said:
So he needs to be a man and stop trying to leverage the situation. He cheated his way into millions. No one was crying for Bernie Madoff's kids. No one cries for the kids of people who embezzle money when they're punished. Probably the best thing for those kids is to not be around someone as toxic as him.

This.
The moment he gives up, will be the time to cut him some slack.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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andy1234 said:
This.
The moment he gives up, will be the time to cut him some slack.

But its not definable.

The next time he goes on Oprah will he be sincere or will we have to wait for the next time?

That's the problem with his pathology.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Pretty funny part in the book about the first time Betsy talked with Travis. She told him to Fork off and hung up on him. :eek:
 
Sep 29, 2012
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proffate said:
That 48 to 52 is the 8%. (4 / 48 ~= 0.08) The increase in power is 4-6%, which jives with what I've heard previously, power increases at about half of the HCT increase %. Or power % increase matches HCT absolute increase (4 HCT, 4% power). So Lance would have gotten about 17% power.

But more helpfully, time to exhaustion goes up by ~50%. It's a trap to look purely at increase in power or HCt, and say - meh it's not that impressive, diminishing returns, etc.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Many of the details of the doping people here will already know but the personal stuff is really interesting.

After Landis dropped his bombs at the ToC. Hincapie tries to talk lance out of lying, says to him "Why don't you just admit?" ......Lance's response

Admit what?

Delusional
 
Got some stuff right, lied about a lot . . . Yes, I doped. Yes, I was doping. These people, the lengths that they went to . . . it’s the reason I picked on these people. I really hated them. These people sucked.

Why did you "hate them" though Wonderboy, if YOU did the same thing you accuse them of doing?

Delusional! The man went to great lengths to deny deny deny, for more than a decade, destroying(or attempting to) in his wake, and it's ironic that he says something like this about others.


Like RR says, the man is simply DELUSIONAL.

Why GH is still ball licking Wonderboy is a mystery. Lance threatened to have him arrested, and he still backs him? unbelievable.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
But its not definable.

The next time he goes on Oprah will he be sincere or will we have to wait for the next time?

That's the problem with his pathology.

Someone insert the monkey mouth image here

That would be very fitting...
 
Armstrong is the perfect subject for a biography. There is virtually nothing about him that’s ordinary, from the athletic talent to the lack of social skills. JM did an excellent job of revealing Armstrong’s character by presenting a lot of childhood scenes. Someone who knew him said that without the athletic talent he probably would have been a juvenile delinquent. Actually, he was a juvenile delinquent, there are several escapades recounted that make that clear—e.g., he was chased by police one night, and abandoned the car in an intersection and ran away on foot. But he would have ended up far worse if he hadn’t been able to focus all that rage and hostility on bike racing, and I give him some credit for doing that. He did learn to channel a lot of his anger.

Armstrong did push everyone away. He treated Neal awfully, ignoring him at the end. He did attend his funeral, but told his sister “I don’t do funerals”. When Terry attended a Ride for the Roses and tried to reach out to Armstrong, the latter told the police to take him away.

But to me, DZ’s childhood is far more frightening. At least Armstrong had a father, Terry, who paid attention to him and tried to make something out of him, even if it was tough love overdone. DZ’s father sounds like a nightmare. That he came out of that with nothing more than appearing weird to others is a tribute to him, I’d say. And I can see how he and Floyd hit it off.

On the HT issue, JM says it was 42-43, but clearly he got a huge advantage:

Swart saw that most of his teammates had hematocrits of more than 50. His, he recalled, was the lowest of everyone’s, at 47 percent. He remembered the others’ numbers: Andreu’s was at about 50. Andrea Peron, an Italian, had the highest, at 56. (There have been no conclusive findings that Peron ever doped.) Armstrong’s was either 52 or 54, at least ten percentage points above his norm. Even with that edge, Armstrong, the strong one-day racer, would go on to finish 36th in that Tour, nearly an hour and a half slower than Miguel Indurain, the winner.

This was pre-cancer, so again, despite using EPO apparently effectively, he couldn’t climb then. Post-cancer, though, JV is quoted as saying that USPS had a tremendous advantage in having the doping organized, that that was the big difference in success--Motoman, and also being set up to do transfusions anywhere. GH is quoted at one point saying that once the team transfused on the bus while parked at the end of a freaking TDF stage!. When JV joined another team, he was shocked to learn that they didn’t inject themselves with “twenty five different substances” every day.

RR, wrt the six months ban, she says this:

After a multitude of phone calls back and forth between Hincapie’s lawyer and USADA’s lawyers, USADA decided to back down and dole out penalties that were equal.
After the Tour, Tygart contacted Vaughters with bad news: The immunity deal was off. His riders would be suspended for six months, starting at the end of that season. Tygart said he and his colleagues had discussed it, and they were taking too much of a chance by granting immunity to some riders but not others. Bending the World Anti-Doping Code like that would require the blessing of the World Anti-Doping Agency, and also the UCI, an institution that seemed to be allied with Armstrong.

IOW, Tygart rationalized that he had no choice, but it seems GH pressured him, too.

JM says the london times received "about $1.56 million" in the settlement. I hadn't heard a figure before. Sounds like they got back considerably more than just what they originally paid Armstrong.

I had known the feds turned down a $5 million settlement offer. JM says he upped it to $13.5 million, and they refused that. But amazingly, JM says they would have settled for $18.5 million, plus testimony vs. Bruyneel and the doctors. Armstrong refused that. He may regret that almost as much as not giving Floyd a job. If he had done that, with the SCA settlement, he would have been finished with all the lawsuits of any consequence for maybe $40 million, including legal fees. Not chump change, but probably low enough for him to have a lot left over. JM says that during the fed investigation, Armstrong told someone he had $100 million in the bank. If that is true, why would he not part with about $20 million to avoid risking losing the whole ball of wax?

Some of the people I interviewed did not want to have their names used for fear of retribution from Armstrong, who they believe continues to wield power in the sport of cycling, and/ or in the community because of the work he has done for cancer awareness.
 
Nov 14, 2013
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Merckx index said:
This was pre-cancer, so again, despite using EPO apparently effectively, he couldn’t climb then. Post-cancer, though, JV is quoted as saying that USPS had a tremendous advantage in having the doping organized, that that was the big difference in success

Critical point: Pre-cancer=Pre-Ferrari

My personal opinion, before Ferrari EPO was viewed as a race day boost, aka raising HC 10 points = 8% increase in power. This really helped "lazy" cyclists who trained as little as they needed too and relied on super charging game day. This resulted in a heavy but discrete EPO cycle.

Post Ferrari EPO, HGH, testo was used as a training aid, giving a boost in "base" power which then had "race day" boost sitting on top using a mix of blood bags and EPO micro dose. This results in ultra strong-ultra skinny cyclists different from the Indurain/Riis Generation. Smaller doses of EPO but continuous throughout the year developing lasting engine and eating body weight away to nothing.
 

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