Dan Martin discussion thread

[Zinoviev Letter]

Great ride. He is more temperamentally suited to one day racing, but he is finally showing that he can be a serious GC rider over three weeks.

 

[happytramp]

The big question is can he overtake Uran on the GC? He's two minutes down on him but I think it's doable considering how he preformed today after his crash.

Given the frequency with which Uran is mentioned as potential GT winner (or podium finisher at least) It would really cement Dan's status for Podium potential at GT's. (I suppose we should probably wait and see how he does in the third week though)

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

@DanMartin86: Think i was in abit shock after the crash. Found out @NathanPeterHaas climbed down to get me out the pit and i tried to ride johans bike

I don't want to be unkind, but the image of Dan Martin on Vansummeren's bike is hilarious.

 

[happytramp]

Another great ride today. Thought he was left for dead! Can't believe he finished only 6sec behind Aru!!

 

[richwagmn]

Another great ride today. Thought he was left for dead! Can't believe he finished only 6sec behind Aru!!

Dan Martin had said he wasn't sure what his capabilities are. I think it's become clearer to him that he could compete for a GT podium in the near future.

 

[Jspear]

Interesting....Wonder if he will want to continue and develop his gt abilities.

http://cyclingquotes.com/news/martin_thats_why_i_prefer_one-day_races/

 

[happytramp]

Interesting....Wonder if he will want to continue and develop his gt abilities.

http://cyclingquotes.com/news/martin_thats_why_i_prefer_one-day_races/

Maybe a GT with no time trialing ... The field here is too strong to get any higher than 6th but I do think he could have had a good shot at the podium in the Giro or the Vuelta on a regular year.

 

[dduff442]

It's interesting to speculate on Garmin's 2015 schedule after Lombardia. Without Martin, even continued World Tour status couldn't be guaranteed but Talansky's TT ability and appeal to the US sponsors probably makes him their TdF hope once again.

If Talansky could be tempted to go Giro/Vuelta instead he'd get A-team support because the strongest support riders will peak for the Ardennes... That'd open up the prospect of Martin going stage hunting at the TdF with every prospect of a nice haul (with weaker support, not so many being needed for that task).

 

[barmaher]

I think it is unlikely that Dan Martin will ever get a podium in a Grand Tour. Maybe in a weak Vuelta.

I say this as one of his biggest fans.

I'd aim him at LBL, Fleche, Amstel and Giro di Lombardia. And a few stage races like Catalunya, Paris-Nice, Poland, etc.

I don't think Talansky will podum a GT either, but that is beside the point. Talansky is suited to Grand Tours, given his time trialling ability and climbing style. He needs to improve a lot, but AT's best chance of success is in 1w/3w stage races. Martin's best chances are in 1d/1w.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

There aren't enough hilly classics of significance to build a whole season around. No matter what else he does, he, like the other specialists, Valverde, Purito, Gilbert, etc, will be aiming for excellent form during the Ardennes and Lombardia/WC.

The issue is what he does the rest of the year. That will involve riding a GT. Whether he does so for GC, for stages or some slightly contradictory combination of the two remains to be seen, but in the short term I suspect he won't give up on GC. His Vuelta was enough of a step forward for him to reasonably think further progress is possible. Whether that will work out, who knows?

There's no real clash with Talansky unless and until one of them starts looking like a TDF podium contender and get full team support. Short of that Garmin have never had any problem throwing multiple leaders into the same GT. That can work fine, and there would be even less of a clash if Martin is primarily stage hunting - Talansky isn't at this point the sort of contender who would have eight men dedicated to holding his hand. In any case, Garmin have three main leaders and three GTs to divide up. They will send Talansky to the Tour and Martin and a Hesjedal wherever the hell they feel like riding.

 

[parisroubaix18]

Dan Martin is a class rider, was fortunate enough to meet him last year, super nice guy and so dedicated to his craft.

Check this video out, I am interested to her what people think.
http://vimeo.com/108120315

 

[dduff442]

There aren't enough hilly classics of significance to build a whole season around. No matter what else he does, he, like the other specialists, Valverde, Purito, Gilbert, etc, will be aiming for excellent form during the Ardennes and Lombardia/WC.

The issue is what he does the rest of the year. That will involve riding a GT. Whether he does so for GC, for stages or some slightly contradictory combination of the two remains to be seen, but in the short term I suspect he won't give up on GC. His Vuelta was enough of a step forward for him to reasonably think further progress is possible. Whether that will work out, who knows?

There's no real clash with Talansky unless and until one of them starts looking like a TDF podium contender and get full team support. Short of that Garmin have never had any problem throwing multiple leaders into the same GT. That can work fine, and there would be even less of a clash if Martin is primarily stage hunting - Talansky isn't at this point the sort of contender who would have eight men dedicated to holding his hand. In any case, Garmin have three main leaders and three GTs to divide up. They will send Talansky to the Tour and Martin and a Hesjedal wherever the hell they feel like riding.

I agree there's no reason for the ambitions of either Talansky or Martin to frustrate those of the other. If I were Talansky the Giro would seem a very attractive idea to me, but the fact that he's a US rider may alter that picture.

Regarding Martin's GC ambitions, it's clear that he has few and maybe no equals in one department -- stamina. All his biggest wins have either been queen stages or classics. His TdF stage was the one where Porte went AWOL and the pressure on Froome was relentless all day. The thing is that even an entire team cannot leverage that advantage alone in a run of the mill stage. That's why the classics suit him -- he always has allies in forcing the pace throughout the race.

 

[movingtarget]

There aren't enough hilly classics of significance to build a whole season around. No matter what else he does, he, like the other specialists, Valverde, Purito, Gilbert, etc, will be aiming for excellent form during the Ardennes and Lombardia/WC.

The issue is what he does the rest of the year. That will involve riding a GT. Whether he does so for GC, for stages or some slightly contradictory combination of the two remains to be seen, but in the short term I suspect he won't give up on GC. His Vuelta was enough of a step forward for him to reasonably think further progress is possible. Whether that will work out, who knows?

There's no real clash with Talansky unless and until one of them starts looking like a TDF podium contender and get full team support. Short of that Garmin have never had any problem throwing multiple leaders into the same GT. That can work fine, and there would be even less of a clash if Martin is primarily stage hunting - Talansky isn't at this point the sort of contender who would have eight men dedicated to holding his hand. In any case, Garmin have three main leaders and three GTs to divide up. They will send Talansky to the Tour and Martin and a Hesjedal wherever the hell they feel like riding.

He should do the one week stage races and maybe stage hunt in one GT per year while supporting Talansky who seems to have more potential for the GTs.

 

[Granville57]

Check this video out, I am interested to her what people think.
http://vimeo.com/108120315

I think you're a spambot/trollbot since every, single one of your posts, across multiple sub-forums, has linked to this same commercial video.


Reported...

 

[Big Doopie]

I don't think Talansky will podum a GT either, but that is beside the point.

interesting assertion given Talansky won the dauphine at age 25. finished 10th in his first TDF at 24 and 6-7th at the vuelta.

do you know the list of winners of the dauphine?

it must be amazing to see so far into the future and ignore history.

 

[movingtarget]

interesting given Talansky won the dauphine at age 25. finished 10th in his first TDF at 24 and 6-7th at the vuelta.

do you know the list of winners of the dauphine?

it must be amazing to see so far into the future and ignore history.

Talansky is at that stage where riders kick on, improve and push for podiums or never seem to live up to their potential. TJVG is in a similar position and even though many good GC riders have recently retired or are about to, there is no shortage of young riders coming through including the French and Colombian riders and a few English and US riders that are a bit younger. At the moment I think Talansky is top 5 for a GT at best. Kreuziger is another one who did not reach the GT level expected, although his 2013 Tour was very good and showed improvement. Aru of course is already at the next level. As for the Dauphine, many riders can do well over 8 days but not over three weeks although the Dauphine is usually won by good GT riders.

 

[Anderis]

I see no reason to assume Talansky would've been surely outperformed by riders like Peraud or Pinot in this year's TdF had he not crashed. He is a pure GT rider who always gets better as the race progresses.

 

[Amsterdam]

I - as a fan - expected more of Dan Martin this season. Before Fleche he was very bad. Ok he had bad luck in Liege and the Giro. But I was hoping more from him in the Vuelta because he was much fresher than the rest. But at the MTF's he mostly ended around place 8/10, nog stage win either. Lombardia was a nice win on tactics. He wasn't there when Gilbert, Costa and Valverde chased Wellens. Like i said I'm a fan and next year I want to see more of him.

 

[inthepink]

Dan Martin is a very smart rider with the stamina for one day races. I cannot see him podium at the Tour mostly becasue his TT and 3 week recovery let him down...Maybe he can improve in these areas and have abit of luck but against top GC guys its hard to see. Even at the momnet Giro& Vuelta are very hotly contested by Columbians, French , Spanish ,etc.

However he can win so many other races that it is not an issue
He can win the rainbow stripes, all the ardennes, and other one dasy races and stage races
Maybe he shoukd do MSR/Strade Bianchi ??

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I - as a fan - expected more of Dan Martin this season. Before Fleche he was very bad. Ok he had bad luck in Liege and the Giro. But I was hoping more from him in the Vuelta because he was much fresher than the rest. But at the MTF's he mostly ended around place 8/10, nog stage win either. Lombardia was a nice win on tactics. He wasn't there when Gilbert, Costa and Valverde chased Wellens. Like i said I'm a fan and next year I want to see more of him.

His season was supposed to have three targets. Ardennes - Giro - WC/Lombardy. Anything prior to the Ardennes was just used as preparation. In the Ardennes he was super strong and unlucky not to get a win at either Flèche (2nd) or LBL (last corner crash). Then the Giro crash wiped out his second big objective. After that he only rode three races that mattered as targets - the Vuelta, WC and Lombardy.

The Vuelta was a mixed bag. He showed he can ride for a good GC place in a GT, which he hadn't done before, but he was off the pace of the best five climbers. And in keeping a decent GC place he ended up with his every attack being immediately followed. So ok as a race, but not great.

Then there was the WC, with yet another crash, before Lombardy, which he won. According to his post race interview he was planning to attack on the final climb but was slightly out of position and got caught in traffic. Getting out of that to grab onto the back of the final selection was good going. And of course he won.

He is going to finish about 15 race days down on his usual season. Overall, yes a bit disappointing but almost entirely because of crashes.

 

[happytramp]

yes a bit disappointing but almost entirely because of crashes.

By his standards, maybe. I'd reckon a monument win automatically rescues a season though.

 

[happytramp]

Realistically, what chances does Martin have to go on and win a third monument? Very few have done so recently and it mostly goes L-B-L/Lombardia or Roubaix/Flanders with Milan San Remo possibly being the middle ground. Dan showed he has one hell of a kick after a long hard day in the saddle but I just don't believe that M-S-R is selective enough for him to challenge there.

 

[movingtarget]

I see no reason to assume Talansky would've been surely outperformed by riders like Peraud or Pinot in this year's TdF had he not crashed. He is a pure GT rider who always gets better as the race progresses.

I agree. For all of the talk about the resurgence of the French, I still don't rate them superior to Talansky and TJVG. The US riders are better TT riders as well. Performing over three weeks without a bad day is the key and neither rider has done that yet although TJVG's 5th place in the 2012 Tour was very good on a route that suited him. But that is how the best GT riders win a GT by riding for three weeks consistently. Only a handful of the best riders can manage it. Forget the 2014 Tour as both had problems with injuries and crashes. Peraud and Pinot performed very well but include Froome, Contador and bad luck for others and the French places on the podium look pretty doubtful. Still that is racing and it happens all the time. You have to have some luck over three weeks or avoid bad luck.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Realistically, what chances does Martin have to go on and win a third monument? Very few have done so recently and it mostly goes L-B-L/Lombardia or Roubaix/Flanders with Milan San Remo possibly being the middle ground. Dan showed he has one hell of a kick after a long hard day in the saddle but I just don't believe that M-S-R is selective enough for him to challenge there.

Well Roubaix and Flanders are clearly out of the question. MSR is unlikely but not impossible, particularly if the finish is tougher. In theory he has a considerably better shot than say, Nibali.

By the way, here is Martin's record over the last ten editions of Flèche/LBL/Lombardy: 1st, 39th, 2nd, 4th, 1st, 4th, 16th, 5th, 6th, 2nd. Eight top six finishes out of ten, and one of the two exceptions was this year's LBL when he crashed at the final corner. You'd be a brave man to bet against him winning more of those races.

 

[Big Doopie]

He wasn't there when Gilbert, Costa and Valverde chased Wellens.

he was, just a few riders back, and hardly on camera. he has said that he wanted to attack on the hill but was boxed in and couldn't get by -- it does appear that would have been the logical place for him to attack.