Dan Martin - "Now I know you can win clean"

[Benotti69]

The Contador fans always wants to mark everyone a doper to take the heat of A.C. Contador is a rider with one of the dirtiest histories and has been sanctioned but as soon as someone makes a decent performance, you can be sure he will be called a doper by the Contador crowd.

Why not look at Dan Martin instead of what the Contador fans are saying.

Martin rides for Garmin a team full of known dopers. Garmin spend big money every year doing internal testing, why?, maybe to keep their riders doping within the limits of the tests. But Hesjedal's blood values in the 3rd week of 2012 Giro went up instead of down, so did Wiggins values 3rd week TdF'09, which both were blamed on machine error. How convenient the machine only made errors on the 3rd week instead of 1st week or 2nd week. Always the the 3rd week!

Also Dan Martin is outclimbing riders on some pretty dodgy teams, how? Is he the greatest clean athlete int he bunch? I doubt it. He would be still racing for Britain instead of having to race for Ireland to get picked for events such as the worlds.

So yes why believe Martin is clean, he beat Purito to a monument(LBL), he out climbs riders who we know ride for dodgy teams, his team has a very dodgy history.....the testing at worth a crap, Vaughters keeps his riders tested to beat the testing, Garmin admitting to looking at using Xenon gas, what else did they look at and pick to use......

 

[the sceptic]

The Contador fans always wants to mark everyone a doper to take the heat of A.C. Contador is a rider with one of the dirtiest histories and has been sanctioned but as soon as someone makes a decent performance, you can be sure he will be called a doper by the Contador crowd.

Yeah that must be it

The reason I asked was because I remember someone who thought Garmin/Martin was clean that it would be worrying if he started climbing with the best in the 3rd week of a GT. So I was wondering if this set off any alarm bells.

 

[BYOP88]

Yeah that must be it

The reason I asked was because I remember someone who thought Garmin/Martin was clean that it would be worrying if he started climbing with the best in the 3rd week of a GT. So I was wondering if this set off any alarm bells.

I remember reading something like that on here too. Along the lines of "Martin is clean because he fades (badly) in the 3rd week".

 

[WillemS]

Anecdotally, from personal experience, it's possible.

I know this is old stuff, but as old stuff tends to come back to the clinic surface every so often, I would like to add my own anecdote:

Throughout my teens, I occasionally had a runny nose during the hay fever season, but never actually thought it would be related to hay fever as it was mild and some of my friends seemed to be having the same problems.

However, over the last couple of years, starting when I was 25, this developed into full blown hay fever: Red and itching eyes, sneezing, runny and/or blocked nose, headaches, sensitivity to light, and increased sensation of fatigue. During (training) rides, my throat will slowly start to hurt and I even get some Asthmatic symptoms, although I never experience them outside of hay fever season, such as exercise-induced tightness of chest. (Interestingly, I did not have a lot of trouble this year.)

So, yes, I would say it's possible to develop (severe) hay fever problems during your twenties.

 

[hrotha]

I remember reading something like that on here too. Along the lines of "Martin is clean because he fades (badly) in the 3rd week".

The third week hasn't really started yet.

 

[sniper]

Contador may have doped in the past but he's clearly been clean for years now, right? Unless you think testing negative isn't convincing evidence of being clean, that is.

well said.

 

[Walkman]

Yeah that must be it

Well, the empirical evidence says it is. Just read the forum.

 

[elduggo]

He would be still racing for Britain instead of having to race for Ireland to get picked for events such as the worlds.

I find that comment highly offensive.

whats your problem with Ireland that you'd consider it would only be someone of Irish heritage's second choice? Do you know nothing of this history of this country?

 

[BYOP88]

The third week hasn't really started yet.

I didn't say it had.

 

[Benotti69]

I find that comment highly offensive.

whats your problem with Ireland that you'd consider it would only be someone of Irish heritage's second choice? Do you know nothing of this history of this country?

Take it up with Dan Martin. He rode for British Cycling till 2004.

"Martin won the British national junior road race title in 2004, but changed to Irish nationality soon afterwards, frustrated with British Cycling’s focus on track cycling at the time."

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...artin-rider-profile-70748#xXZ0c1SDFceTLwKy.99

Ireland was not Dan Martin's 1st choice.

I have no problem with Ireland. 70 million people in America alone claim Irish Heritage. Some people in Irleand want to give them the right to vote. Their would be leprechauns as Taoiseach, Tanaiste and TDs, might be better than the current lot!

But Martin chose Britain till it suited to him become Irish. Plenty born in Britain to Irish parentage dont consider themselves Irish, lots in music, Gallaghers Bros, Johnny Marr, Morrisey, John Lydon...........

 

[the sceptic]

Well, the empirical evidence says it is. Just read the forum.

No. You made it up.

 

[SeriousSam]

So your argument is that not testing positive is proof of being a doper? Brilliant.

Big Doopie claimed Dan is clean and Contador is not.
But if you believe Contador is doping, as you should, you must also believe that passing tests is weak evidence of being clean.
Because Contador is passing tests all the time, because Lance passed tests all the time, because the vast majority of dopers pass tests all the time.

Hence if his lack of a positive is all that can be said in favour of Dan Martin's cleanliness, then he is (much) more likely to be doping than the average rider in the peloton. That is, far from clean. Contrary to what Big Doopie asserted, whom I was replying to.

 

[Samson777]

Surely this is a joke, right?

Contador beeing a serial doper? Yes that's a joke.

Bjarne aproves

'


As for Dan Martins real talent, well.. Maybe, maybe not. Martin beeing 100% procent clean, probably not.

 

[the sceptic]

Didnt you know. Everyone that ends up at garmin are great talents. Doping would only slow them down.

 

[elduggo]

But Martin chose Britain till it suited to him become Irish. Plenty born in Britain to Irish parentage dont consider themselves Irish, lots in music, Gallaghers Bros, Johnny Marr, Morrisey, John Lydon...........

the mind boggles

 

[Benotti69]

the mind boggles

Well when yours stops boggling come back and post some more.

 

[Big Doopie]

i love how hiring ex-dopers with the open and stated plan of giving those riders a pressure-free situation where they wouldn't have to dope. and then backing it up by not having a hint of doping issues since the team's inception is now worse than a rider who has been caught several times and chooses over and over to ride for dirty ds's and teams with renowned doping programs. freakin' hysterical.

and agreed the tests don't prove everything. but dan martin a well documented huge talent with genes to spare has had a relatively unremarkable career apart from a few highlights that came to the fore as the blood passport kicked in. he has been outspokenly anti-doping and continues to ride for a team and ds that are proponents of the same. there is no doctor attached to dan martin, etc., and etc., it goes on and on.

on the other hand, you have a serial doper who f#$k$ with his adoring fans by laughing in their face while he comes up with absolute ridiculous lies for why he was caught. A serial doper who then wants you to believe that all his mythical wins were untainted, when we know that to be a direct lie. fact is, not a single person can actually say how "naturally" talented clentadoppucci is. and that is why it is completely possible that a clean super-talented rider like dan martin might be able to stay within 7 mins of a doped minor talent like clentadoppucci after two weeks in a GT that has had almost no ITT...

it really is very simple. lol.

 

[BYOP88]

i love how hiring ex-dopers with the open and stated plan of giving those riders a pressure-free situation where they wouldn't have to dope. and then backing it up by not having a hint of doping issues since the team's inception is now worse than a rider who has been caught several times and chooses over and over to ride for dirty ds's and teams with renowned doping programs. freakin' hysterical.

and agreed the tests don't prove everything. but dan martin a well documented huge talent with genes to spare has had a relatively unremarkable career apart from a few highlights that came to the fore as the blood passport kicked in. he has been outspokenly anti-doping and continues to ride for a team and ds that are proponents of the same. there is no doctor attached to dan martin, etc., and etc., it goes on and on.

on the other hand, you have a serial doper who f#$k$ with his adoring fans by laughing in their face while he comes up with absolute ridiculous lies for why he was caught. A serial doper who then wants you to believe that all his mythical wins were untainted, when we know that to be a direct lie. fact is, not a single person can actually say how "naturally" talented clentadoppucci is. and that is why it is completely possible that a clean super-talented rider like dan martin might be able to stay within 7 mins of a doped minor talent like clentadoppucci after two weeks in a GT that has had almost no ITT...

it really is very simple. lol.

I may have missed something, but how do you know that Martin is "a clean super-talented rider"?

 

[D-Queued]

Contador is a doper. Martin may or may not be. It largely depends on how cleanish you think the peloton currently is.

To state that he is definitely clean is folly.

But many of the arguments being used here to say he's a doper are just silly.

How does Martin's cleanliness have anything to do with opinions on how cleanish the peloton is?

He is clean. Or, he isn't.

Opinions on other riders are simply opinions.

Contador, for example, has been banned for doping. It is not stating an opinion to observe that Contador is a known doper.

Dave.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Nobody knows whether Martin is clean or not but, of the riders of his class, there is a far more compelling argument for him being clean than pretty much anyone else. The fact that nobody has produced a single credible argument against him despite this ridiculously long thread just goes to prove the point.

The arguments against him seem to be
1. He is pretty good but not as good as a number of others.
2. He is British/ Irish, therefore he must be doping because the Brits and Irish are far dirtier than other nations.
3. He is on the same team as some riders who have doped. By that token Bassons was a serial doper.

Until somebody can come up with a reason to believe he isn't clean then I will continue to hope that he is.

 

[TailWindHome]

Nobody knows whether Martin is clean or not but, of the riders of his class, there is a far more compelling argument for him being clean than pretty much anyone else. The fact that nobody has produced a single credible argument against him despite this ridiculously long thread just goes to prove the point.

The arguments against him seem to be
1. He is pretty good but not as good as a number of others.
2. He is British/ Irish, therefore he must be doping because the Brits and Irish are far dirtier than other nations.
3. He is on the same team as some riders who have doped. By that token Bassons was a serial doper.

Until somebody can come up with a reason to believe he isn't clean then I will continue to hope that he is.

He thought it good news that Impey had been cleared.
That's enough to get the mob agitated.

 

[Walkman]

I may have missed something, but how do you know that Martin is "a clean super-talented rider"?

The thing isn't that Martin certainly is a super talented clean rider, it's that he could be. Contador with his history is a proven cheat, and that is the difference, and it's a big one if you ask me.

 

[BYOP88]

The thing isn't that Martin certainly is a super talented clean rider, it's that he could be. Contador with his history is a proven cheat, and that is the difference, and it's a big one if you ask me.

In your view what riders are clean(Martin,Froome, Wiggins, Porte etc etc) and who is dirty (Contador,Piti, Basso, J-Rod etc)?

Just interested how can you prove that the riders who you think are clean are actually clean(Lets not forget St. David of Millar didn't actually fail a doping control, but he is also a cheat too)?

 

[the sceptic]

I may have missed something, but how do you know that Martin is "a clean super-talented rider"?

JV says so.

 

[elduggo]

He thought it good news that Impey had been cleared.
That's enough to get the mob agitated.

Impey is one of his best mates