I have deleted a number of off-topic postings.
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Please stay on topic.
Age-related fitness declines in athletes can be due to both aging and detraining. Very little is known about the physiological and performance decline of professional cyclists after retirement from competition. To gain some insight into the aging and detraining process of elite cyclists, 5-time Tour de France winner and Olympic Champion Miguel Indurain performed a progressive cycle ergometer test to exhaustion 14 years after retirement from professional cycling (age 46 yrs; body mass 92.2 kg).
His maximal values were: oxygen uptake 5.29 l.min-1 (57.4 ml.kg-1.min-1), aerobic power output 450 W (4.88 W.kg-1), heart rate 191 bpm, blood lactate 11.2 mM. Values at the individual lactate threshold (ILT): 4.28 l.min-1 (46.4 ml.kg-1.min-1), 329 W (3.57 W.kg-1), 159 bpm, 2.4 mM.
Values at the 4 mM onset of blood lactate accumulation (OBLA): 4.68 l.min-1 (50.8 ml.kg-1.min-1), 369 W (4.00 W.kg-1), 170 bpm.
Average cycling gross efficiency between 100 and 350 W was 20.1%, with a peak value of 22.3% at 350 W. Delta efficiency was 27.04%.
Absolute maximal oxygen uptake and aerobic power output declined by 12.4 and 15.2% per decade, whereas power output at ILT and OBLA declined by 19.8 and 19.2%.
Larger declines in maximal and submaximal values relative to body mass (19.4-26.1%) indicate that body composition changed more than aerobic characteristics. Nevertheless, Indurain's absolute maximal and submaximal oxygen uptake and power output values still compare favorably with those exhibited by active professional cyclists.
DirtyWorks said:Can someone explain which factors of Indurain's recent test results can be improved with training? For example, if he starts logging lots of Km's and intensity and whatnot. I get lost in all those numbers.
BigBoat said:Loosing 12 kilos is damn hard....His V02 max power was 450 watts. He needs to get that up over 500 undoped to stay with the pack....period. Then he needs an FTP of over 400.... 400 watts would give him the power of an average domestic pro at 80 kg. Doubtful he could gain 70 watts at threshold completely without use of PEDs. Although Indurain is extremely talented, more so than Lance.
At the moment of testing he had a threshold of 330 watts and he weight 202 pounds. The average cat 1 amateur is going to have that power at 65-70 kg. Loosing 20+ pounds an putting on that much fitness at his age would almost certainly require doping, although you can do a lot with proper diet alone even in your 50s. I've seen one or two 55 year olds who can out time trial young professionals! Its pretty hilarious he he he.
You can get in really really great shape without taking drugs, maybe I worded my statement in a poor way. I dont believe Indurain could race strongly at the top level of pro cycling with his current numbers where they are. However, I do believe Indurain is in good shape right now, and he looks great!hiero2 said:Speaking as a man who has made it into his 6th decade, your assumption that losing weight and getting back into shape would require drugs is bogus. Completely bogus. It requires hard work and dedication, just like any 20 year old. The recovery may be a little slower, but we aren't indelibly decrepit and ossified just because we are older.
I somehow doubt that Indurain has done any serious riding since he retired. However looking at those numbers he would probably decimate Master's racing with a few months to whip himself into shape.BigBoat said:You can get in really really great shape without taking drugs, maybe I worded my statement in a poor way. I dont believe Indurain could race strongly at the top level of pro cycling with his current numbers where they are. However, I do believe Indurain is in good shape right now, and he looks great!
42x16ss said:I somehow doubt that Indurain has done any serious riding since he retired. However looking at those numbers he would probably decimate Master's racing with a few months to whip himself into shape.
_frost said:No doubt about that. But at the moment, those numbers are mediocre at best for his age group racing.
Edit: mediocre is maybe a bit harsh expression. Looking more carefully 369w is at OBLA which would most probably put his FTP a bit higher (10-20w). and considering that his w/kg numbers are bad mostly because being overweight which would be very easy to handle.
runninboy said:I disagree. Once you get to 40 if you try to drop weight you lose muscle mass. Alot of it. That is why age groupers dope, they lose weight and their power along with it. I lost 30 lbs, and my power dropped off a cliff even though i was hitting the weights hard. I gained the weight back a couple years later, power back up , muscle mass better but nowhere near what it was.
BigBoat said:Wiggins did 450 watts for 1 hour at 70 kg, he's clean. 6.42 w/kg.
"So I am emptying it to the line as if it is a training effort in Tenerife and I have to get out every last little bit. And that's where the punch in the air happens as I cross the line."
V3R1T4S said:Hey BigBoat, I think in general I sympathize with your cynical view, but you are missing one thing here and have one thing wrong.
First, the Osymmetric rings inflate power by ~4%
So, (450w*0.96)/72kg = 6.0 w/kg. Not quite so fishy now, eh?
BigBoat said:They could give an increase in power for some, but I see most pros using standard rings... Also Wiggins pedal stroke is extremely smooth. The oval rings tend to help people who mash on the downstroke.
acoggan said:V3R1T4S was referring to an artifactual increase in the calculated power, not an increase in the actual power. The former stems from the assumption of crank-based powermeters that the angular velocity of the crank is constant, something that is not true when using non-round rings (regardless of how you pedal).
EDIT: See https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/wattage/5prBUKY20s0/npZID_tb-5AJ for the 1st time (to my knowledge, anyway) this problem was pointed out.
BigBoat said:435 watts in itself is a huge threshold....Many dopers before him have failed to achieve that kind of TT power. It exceeds what riders such as Hinault, Lemond, Fingon could do.