Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

[Dear Wiggo]

As a lame example: my current project is a success not because the IT manager is any good at his job. In private, every member of the IT team I have spoken to think the complete opposite. He's just lucky that certain people were involved and know what they are doing and care enough to get the job done. Remove him from the equation and the job would sustain the same level of success. ETA: in fact he gets in the way more often than not, so it would be even more successful.

See where I am going?

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

As a lame example: my current project is a success not because the IT manager is any good at his job. In private, every member of the IT team I have spoken to think the complete opposite. He's just lucky that certain people were involved and know what they are doing and care enough to get the job done. Remove him from the equation and the job would sustain the same level of success.

See where I am going?

Does your IT manager have a string of successes going back 15 years?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

He has the talent to identify excellent doping facilitators. So he is a genius of doping recruitment.

 

[sublimit]

I did not know that, but like it. I would tend to agree.



Nothing happened with Hayles' bust. So I'd say yes, there was an element of luck involved.

And what did Brailsford do exactly? What is it that he brings to the table? Cycling got lottery funding. Was that by Brailsford design or not? I don't think it was, I think it was luck. Happy to be corrected. That allowed him to steal er employ people from other, more successful cycling nations. Sutton a case in point.

Were his riders successful or was he?

Ever heard of the Peter principle?

If you take a very independent Wiggo out of the equation Sky look a lot less successful. I do not think DB played any part in Wiggo's success, any more than Garmin played any part in his 2009 success.

I do not think DB is a genius any more than I think JV is a genius. I think they both made it through luck and doping.

Shane Sutton has always been part of the furniture in Britain, almost an honorary Brit. He's Aus but its not like we stole him.

Dont they teach history in Australia? I thought everybody was familiar with Napolean and the lucky generals..

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

He has the talent to identify excellent doping facilitators. So he is a genius of doping recruitment.

Agreed. Whilst everyone else was going to Ferrari, Brailsford hired Leinders and Sky blew the opposition away.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Dont they teach history in Australia?

According to Tony Abbott - Australia was empty before white people arrived. Which suggests there may be a few issues with the teaching of history.

 

[thehog]

Agreed. Whilst everyone else was going to Ferrari, Brailsford hired Leinders and Sky blew the opposition away.

The shift was that Leinders had UCI on side, Ferrari no longer did.

Helps if you understand the sports history a little better.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Dont they teach history in Australia? I thought everybody was familiar with Napolean and the lucky generals..

Well the French haven't hated us for centuries, so Napoleon probably wasn't on the radar. History bored me to tears.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

And what did Brailsford do exactly? What is it that he brings to the table? Cycling got lottery funding. Was that by Brailsford design or not? I don't think it was, I think it was luck. Happy to be corrected. That allowed him to steal er employ people from other, more successful cycling nations. Sutton a case in point.

Were his riders successful or was he?

I think Sir Dave is like Sir Clive Woodward - a motormouth frontman with enough nouse to bring in good people and let them get on with it.

Lottery funding played a big part in the success of GB cycling. Whatever Sir Dave's secret, having all that cash to play with was a major help. (Though many football managers demonstrate that cash is no guarantee of success. Sir Dave must have spent the money wisely.)

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I think Sir Dave is like Sir Clive Woodward - a motormouth frontman with enough nouse to bring in good people and let them get on with it.

Lottery funding played a big part in the success of GB cycling. Whatever Sir Dave's secret, having all that cash to play with was a major help. (Though many football managers demonstrate that cash is no guarantee of success. Sir Dave must have spent the money wisely.)

I think DB's luck is the same luck Bruyneel (sp) used to win 7 Tours de France.

 

[ray j willings]

It was a smart move getting Leinder's on-board. It was very much under the radar. DB made a big mistake and over reaction with Leinder's sacking. It reeks of a guilt and only opened the doping wound up more in the eyes of the media. Brailsford carries enough weight to have said that Leinder's was only hired as a Dr who [ ] works in the cycling field and is helping us in our fight to clean up our sport. The main stream media and the Sky fan boys would have been happy with that. What we got was a knee jerk reaction of guilt

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

History bored me to tears.

Karl Marx says hi.

Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Karl Marx says hi.

To clarify: bored me. I am fascinated by it now. I think it had a lot to do with the boringest teacher ever.

 

[sniper]

It was a smart move getting Leinder's on-board. It was very much under the radar. DB made a big mistake and over reaction with Leinder's sacking. It reeks of a guilt and only opened the doping wound up more in the eyes of the media. Brailsford carries enough weight to have said that Leinder's was only hired as a Dr who [ ] works in the cycling field and is helping us in our fight to clean up our sport. The main stream media and the Sky fan boys would have been happy with that. What we got was a knee jerk reaction of guilt

who knows Great Leinders is still in the game on a rider-to-rider basis.
The Belgian cycling authorities did a great job exposing his business.

Former Team Sky doctor Geert Leinders has been questioned for three hours by Belgian cycling authorities as part of their investigation into doping.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-interrogated-in-Belgian-doping-inquiry.html
that's almost exactly two years ago

 

[sublimit]

I think DB's luck is the same luck Bruyneel (sp) used to win 7 Tours de France.

He got lucky by getting hired for sure, sure he's said a few stupid things that will always haunt him but in the main has done a reasonable job. If he was sacked tomorrow other teams would come in for him I reckon.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I think DB's luck is the same luck Bruyneel (sp) used to win 7 Tours de France.

JB only had one Tour winner though.

Sir Dave has overseen 16 different riders (I think; maybe more) win Olympic golds. So there's definitely more than luck involved.

 

[thehog]

JB only had one Tour winner though.

Sir Dave has overseen 16 different riders (I think; maybe more) win Olympic golds. So there's definitely more than luck involved.

JB had two including Contador in 2007.

Not to mention the Giro and Vuelta wins.

You see JB was very lucky as well!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

JB only had one Tour winner though.

Sir Dave has overseen 16 different riders (I think; maybe more) win Olympic golds. So there's definitely more than luck involved.

Should have clarified - his road luck. You think Lance could not have won without JB? Wiggo won (4th) without DB in 2009. Complained about DB's (et al) interference in 2010 and then resumed his meteoric rise in 2011, culminating in the rididculous 2012.

 

[sniper]

JB only had one Tour winner though.

Sir Dave has overseen 16 different riders (I think; maybe more) win Olympic golds. So there's definitely more than luck involved.

Floyd 2006 showcased Bruyneel's luck.
It'll probably take Wiggo and/or Froome leaving Sky to inform us how lucky (or genius) Brailsford has or has not been.
Some luck has certainly been there.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

JB had two including Contador in 2007.

Not to mention the Giro and Vuelta wins.

You see JB was very lucky as well!

Indeed. How could I forget Berto?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm not saying DB did not orchestrate his own luck - for sure, but I am saying he was in the right place at the right time, like Gates or Jobs, and not clawing his way to the top like Branson or Sugar. IMO, as always.

 

[sniper]

who knows Great Leinders is still in the game on a rider-to-rider basis.
The Belgian cycling authorities did a great job exposing his business.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-interrogated-in-Belgian-doping-inquiry.html
that's almost exactly two years ago

I knew Leinders administered EPO to Rabo riders and saw to it they didn't test positive.
But I wasn't really aware that he also purchased the EPO:

Nelissen said: "I never had to spend a cent for EPO. That was arranged by team doctor Leinders."

When is CIRC gonna inform us about his suppliers?
Shouldn't be too hard to find out.

Where there's a will there's a way. I guess that answers why we won't hear about it.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I knew Leinders administered EPO to Rabo riders and saw to it they didn't test positive.
But I wasn't really aware that he also purchased the EPO:

When is CIRC gonna inform us about his suppliers?
Shouldn't be too hard to find out.

Where there's a will there's a way. I guess that answers why we won't hear about it.

Team Sky should thank their lucky stars CIRC and the new "association with dodgy characters" rules were not in play back in the glorious Leinder days and are not retrospective.

 

[samhocking]

Maybe Peter Keen forgot to wash his hands after a wee when he appointed Brailsford as an adviser after the BCF moved into Manchester Velodrome in 1994 and passed said good luck in a handshake accidentally? It's impossible to detect that 'good luck' juice those squirrels brew up under that velodrome! That's the secret weapon. Luck not dope!

 

[thehog]

Indeed. How could I forget Berto?

Bruyneel had luck just like Brailsford. The key being a friendly relationship with the UCI and Dr TUE. You make your own luck. Bruyneel won a lot of races with his team. It wasn’t all Lance. USPS was a fairly awesome outfit results wise. Heras won the Vuelta twice with USPS (or was it three?). Contador a Tour, a Giro and a Vuelta with Bruyneel.

Bruyneel sadly never won the atomic jock race though... the one that got away...