Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

[samhocking]

Kenworthy seems to forget, It's UKAD's investigation not the Select Committees. Nobody can say they know first-hand what's in the package other than Freeman & Wiggins for obvious repercussions if they did.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

Kenworthy seems to forget, It's UKAD's investigation not the Select Committees. Nobody can say they know first-hand what's in the package other than Freeman & Wiggins for obvious repercussions if they did.

surely they can (notwithstanding medical confidentiality), if the doc prescribes me something then the dispensing chemist knows what I am getting....

If Cope didn't know (i.e. was asked for it) what was in the package then Freeman had to ask someone at BC for it and someone at BC had to put it in the envelope. Then someone had to give it to Cope. All of which should have generated a paper trail (I think we know what Cope had for lunch for example ). That could have been one or three different people. I think I side with Kenworthy...extraordinary

Anyway.......it got the flagship 08.10 slot on the Today programme this morning...even through my hangover it didn't sound good for ("I am told") Sir Dave....

 

[sniper]

Here's the link to that programme.
Starting at 1:10 is Kenworthy, followed by Collins.
Both are good to listen to. They're an inch away from calling a spade a spade.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b087p13c
Love the "extraordinary" from Kenworthy [with brilliant stiff upper lip pronunciation]
Collins nutshells it: BC can still tell us what Cope had for breakfast at the airport that day, but they can't tell us what's in the package?

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

Here's the link to that programme.
Starting at 1:10 is Kenworthy, followed by Collins.
Both are good to listen to. They're an inch away from calling a spade a spade.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b087p13c
Love the "extraordinary" from Kenworthy [with brilliant stiff upper lip pronunciation]
Collins nutshells it: BC can still tell us what Cope had for breakfast at the airport that day, but they can't tell us what's in the package?

^^ nice one

yup...breakfast

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

Kenworthy seems to forget, It's UKAD's investigation not the Select Committees. Nobody can say they know first-hand what's in the package other than Freeman & Wiggins for obvious repercussions if they did.

surely they can (notwithstanding medical confidentiality), if the doc prescribes me something then the dispensing chemist knows what I am getting....

If Cope didn't know (i.e. was asked for it) what was in the package then Freeman had to ask someone at BC for it and someone at BC had to put it in the envelope. Then someone had to give it to Cope. All of which should have generated a paper trail (I think we know what Cope had for lunch for example ). That could have been one or three different people. I think I side with Kenworthy...extraordinary

Anyway.......it got the flagship 08.10 slot on the Today programme this morning...even through my hangover it didn't sound good for ("I am told") Sir Dave....

Yes, but your dispensing chemist is also bound, the same as your GP. They don't shout your name out against the substance in your prescription to the World do they.

End of the day, this is UKAD's investigation. Brailsford has asked them to get to the bottom of this. If they can't, then they need to say why they can't. Their boss blaming BC & Sky for not telling them must have a reason, they need to explain why UKAD can't say what was in the package, not for Brailsford to investigate and tell them himself.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

Kenworthy seems to forget, It's UKAD's investigation not the Select Committees. Nobody can say they know first-hand what's in the package other than Freeman & Wiggins for obvious repercussions if they did.

surely they can (notwithstanding medical confidentiality), if the doc prescribes me something then the dispensing chemist knows what I am getting....

If Cope didn't know (i.e. was asked for it) what was in the package then Freeman had to ask someone at BC for it and someone at BC had to put it in the envelope. Then someone had to give it to Cope. All of which should have generated a paper trail (I think we know what Cope had for lunch for example ). That could have been one or three different people. I think I side with Kenworthy...extraordinary

Anyway.......it got the flagship 08.10 slot on the Today programme this morning...even through my hangover it didn't sound good for ("I am told") Sir Dave....

Yes, but your dispensing chemist is also bound, the same as your GP. They don't shout your name out against the substance in your prescription to the World do they.

End of the day, this is UKAD's investigation. Brailsford has asked them to get to the bottom of this. If they can't, then they need to say why they can't. Their boss blaming BC & Sky for not telling them must have a reason, they need to explain why UKAD can't say what was in the package, not for Brailsford to investigate and tell them himself.

then the problem is a different one...

You simply say "we all know what's in the package but are not telling you because of medical confidentiality"...again that could have been said on day 1. That would then leave it to Dr Freeman to discuss the matter with Wiggins and decide whether or not it was in the wider interest to disclose some personal medical information (for example like Calum Skinner did). Even with the confidentiality approach, that at least would have drawn a line under the matter.

That this has not been done would suggest it has absolutely nothing to do with medical confidentiality.

Also, its not in Brailsford's gift anymore to direct anyone to investigate himself a la Henoa, fast weight loss and dodgy hiring practices so that he can then report back....sorry guys I could have and should have done better. He now has people smarter than him on his case....

An organisation is steeped in an anti-doping culture not because you say it is (repeatedly)...its because you put in place the checks and balances to make it so...what the 'extraordinary' evidence showed us is that SKY's actual practices are quite the opposite......no checks and no balances, no paper trails of drugs and people working in isolation of each other

in other words, a culture that would allow a healthy doping culture to exist (especially with what we know about management personnel)

 

[samhocking]

It's more fundamental than that. If BC are telling the truth and UKAD have asked BC not to investigate, then it's not even a medical confidentiality issue yet. It seems to come down to UKAD both asking BC to do something and do nothing at the same time is the issue here.

 

[thehog]

Re:

It's more fundamental than that. If BC are telling the truth and UKAD have asked BC not to investigate, then it's not even a medical confidentiality issue yet. It seems to come down to UKAD both asking BC to do something and do nothing at the same time is the issue here.

More to the point, neither party wants to take responsibility. It also shows Sky has considerable power over BC and UKAD. They should suspend Wiggins for 4 years and strip of his 2012 Tour. Wiggins or Freeman won't fess up and there is nothing UKAD can do to compel them to talk. Anti-doping is toothless and always has been.

 

[sniper]

Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.

And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.

(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)

 

[thehog]

Re:

Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.

And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.

(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)

And to put it in perspective; supposedly in 2012 everyone had moved on from the "Lance Armstrong" era; to now have Wiggins heckling the Daily Mail, making fun of the package on social media, Sutton telling members of parliament that they should not being doing the jobs that the general public pays them to do and Brailsford simply not giving a *** and playing with both the UKAD and British Cycling.

Cycling hasn't moved on, it's simply entrenched itself further, the only thing that changed was there was a former era to blame. Festina -> Lance Armstrong.

This is not entirely Vaughters fault but he is also culpable in trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes - again.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.

And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.

(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)

And to put it in perspective; supposedly in 2012 everyone had moved on from the "Lance Armstrong"; to now have Wiggins heckling the Daily Mail, making fun of the package on social media, Sutton telling members of parliament that they should not being doing the jobs that the general public pays them to do and Brailsford simply not giving a **** and playing with both the UKAD and British Cycling.

Cycling hasn't moved on, it's simply entrenched itself further, the only thing that changed was there was a former era to blame. Festina -> Lance Armstrong.

This is not entirely Vaughters fault when he is also culpable in trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes - again.

Cyclings greatest snakeoil salesman. Take a bow JV.

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

It's more fundamental than that. If BC are telling the truth and UKAD have asked BC not to investigate, then it's not even a medical confidentiality issue yet. It seems to come down to UKAD both asking BC to do something and do nothing at the same time is the issue here.

More to the point, neither party wants to take responsibility. It also shows Sky has considerable power over BC and UKAD. They should suspend Wiggins for 4 years and strip of his 2012 Tour. Wiggins or Freeman won't fess up and there is nothing UKAD can do to compel them to talk. Anti-doping is toothless and always has been.

Indeed, I can then look forward to seeing Froome going for his fifth TDF victory this year.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

It's more fundamental than that. If BC are telling the truth and UKAD have asked BC not to investigate, then it's not even a medical confidentiality issue yet. It seems to come down to UKAD both asking BC to do something and do nothing at the same time is the issue here.

More to the point, neither party wants to take responsibility. It also shows Sky has considerable power over BC and UKAD. They should suspend Wiggins for 4 years and strip of his 2012 Tour. Wiggins or Freeman won't fess up and there is nothing UKAD can do to compel them to talk. Anti-doping is toothless and always has been.

Indeed, I can then look forward to seeing Froome going for his fifth TDF victory this year.

if you enjoy the USPS style or racing then you will enjoy it. The 98% of cycling fans who predate 2012 most likely will think it's a bore fest again.

 

[MmeDesgrange]

The fans who predate 2012 will be hashtagging #UKPostal like there's no tomorrow

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.

And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.

(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)

And to put it in perspective; supposedly in 2012 everyone had moved on from the "Lance Armstrong" era; to now have Wiggins heckling the Daily Mail, making fun of the package on social media, Sutton telling members of parliament that they should not being doing the jobs that the general public pays them to do and Brailsford simply not giving a **** and playing with both the UKAD and British Cycling.

Cycling hasn't moved on, it's simply entrenched itself further, the only thing that changed was there was a former era to blame. Festina -> Lance Armstrong.

This is not entirely Vaughters fault but he is also culpable in trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes - again.

Very to the point again.

It's cringeworthy. Both Kensworth and Collins got asked "do you believe the flumicil story?" and neither of them was able to give a simple "no" as an answer.
I realize Brita have a way of formulating things on a circumspect manner, but if after so many proven lies and jalftruths they still cant call a spade a spade, thats just sad.
Britain made to look like a bunch of medieval naive fools by all this charade.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.

And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.

(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)

And to put it in perspective; supposedly in 2012 everyone had moved on from the "Lance Armstrong" era; to now have Wiggins heckling the Daily Mail, making fun of the package on social media, Sutton telling members of parliament that they should not being doing the jobs that the general public pays them to do and Brailsford simply not giving a **** and playing with both the UKAD and British Cycling.

Cycling hasn't moved on, it's simply entrenched itself further, the only thing that changed was there was a former era to blame. Festina -> Lance Armstrong.

This is not entirely Vaughters fault but he is also culpable in trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes - again.

Very to the point again.

It's cringeworthy. Both Kensworth and Collins got asked "do you believe the flumicil story?" and neither of them was able to give a simple "no" as an answer.
I realize Brita have a way of formulating things on a circumspect manner, but if after so many proven lies and jalftruths they still cant call a spade a spade, thats just sad.
Britain made to look like a bunch of medieval naive fools by all this charade.

Don't worry the BikeRadar crew still believe

Apparently the witch hunt on Sky is getting in the way of a real doping story :lol:

 

[42x16ss]

But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.

And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.

(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)

And to put it in perspective; supposedly in 2012 everyone had moved on from the "Lance Armstrong" era; to now have Wiggins heckling the Daily Mail, making fun of the package on social media, Sutton telling members of parliament that they should not being doing the jobs that the general public pays them to do and Brailsford simply not giving a **** and playing with both the UKAD and British Cycling.

Cycling hasn't moved on, it's simply entrenched itself further, the only thing that changed was there was a former era to blame. Festina -> Lance Armstrong.

This is not entirely Vaughters fault but he is also culpable in trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes - again.

Very to the point again.

It's cringeworthy. Both Kensworth and Collins got asked "do you believe the flumicil story?" and neither of them was able to give a simple "no" as an answer.
I realize Brita have a way of formulating things on a circumspect manner, but if after so many proven lies and jalftruths they still cant call a spade a spade, thats just sad.
Britain made to look like a bunch of medieval naive fools by all this charade.

Don't worry the BikeRadar crew still believe

Apparently the witch hunt on Sky is getting in the way of a real doping story :lol:

A real doping story on the poor sods who finish 25th in meaningless races, while Froome continues to ride faster than Lance year after year

 

[ThePirate81]

The package...

 

[pastronef]

Re:

But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.

would this be important? I dont read bikeradar but by the many comments I read here, the clinic members who read bikeradar havent anything good to say about bikeradar members.
so why be bothered about those bikeradar forumites if you rate them and their opinion so low?

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.

would this be important? I dont read bikeradar but by the many comments I read here, the clinic members who read bikeradar havent anything good to say about bikeradar members.
so why be bothered about those bikeradar forumites if you rate them and their opinion so low?

TheHog brought them and their nationalistic blindness into the conversation, ask him.

As for Bikeradar, don't drink anything hot or staining when you read the pro racing threads :lol:

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.

would this be important? I dont read bikeradar but by the many comments I read here, the clinic members who read bikeradar havent anything good to say about bikeradar members.
so why be bothered about those bikeradar forumites if you rate them and their opinion so low?

Why? Because it's funny as hell thats why! :lol:

Where's your sense of humour at the those so blinded by being Brailsford/Sky fanboys they can't even being themselves to admit that Wiggins doped?

In all seriousness, it is also a good example that nothing has moved on or been learnt by the Lance Armstrong effect. Patriotism tends to lead the blind into darkness.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.

would this be important? I dont read bikeradar but by the many comments I read here, the clinic members who read bikeradar havent anything good to say about bikeradar members.
so why be bothered about those bikeradar forumites if you rate them and their opinion so low?

Why? Because it's funny as hell thats why! :lol:

Where's your sense of humour at the those so blinded by being Brailsford/Sky fanboys they can't even being themselves to admit that Wiggins doped?

In all seriousness, it is also a good example that nothing has moved on or been learnt by the Lance Armstrong effect. Patriotism tends to lead the blind into darkness.

Brailsford saw this and it is why he made such a big deal of it being a British team, and their goal of getting the 1st British winner of the TdF.

Rapha saw the potential too and have it appears saw the writing on the wall and sold to a bigger corp.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.

would this be important? I dont read bikeradar but by the many comments I read here, the clinic members who read bikeradar havent anything good to say about bikeradar members.
so why be bothered about those bikeradar forumites if you rate them and their opinion so low?

Why? Because it's funny as hell thats why! :lol:

Where's your sense of humour at the those so blinded by being Brailsford/Sky fanboys they can't even being themselves to admit that Wiggins doped?

In all seriousness, it is also a good example that nothing has moved on or been learnt by the Lance Armstrong effect. Patriotism tends to lead the blind into darkness.

Brailsford saw this and it is why he made such a big deal of it being a British team, and their goal of getting the 1st British winner of the TdF.

Rapha saw the potential too and have it appears saw the writing on the wall and sold to a bigger corp.

BikeRadar knows best :lol:

 

[thehog]

Good to see open and transparent Brailsford at his best in Majorca :lol: