Kenworthy seems to forget, It's UKAD's investigation not the Select Committees. Nobody can say they know first-hand what's in the package other than Freeman & Wiggins for obvious repercussions if they did.
samhocking said:Kenworthy seems to forget, It's UKAD's investigation not the Select Committees. Nobody can say they know first-hand what's in the package other than Freeman & Wiggins for obvious repercussions if they did.
^^ nice onesniper said:Here's the link to that programme.
Starting at 1:10 is Kenworthy, followed by Collins.
Both are good to listen to. They're an inch away from calling a spade a spade.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b087p13c
Love the "extraordinary" from Kenworthy [with brilliant stiff upper lip pronunciation]
Collins nutshells it: BC can still tell us what Cope had for breakfast at the airport that day, but they can't tell us what's in the package?
gillan1969 said:samhocking said:Kenworthy seems to forget, It's UKAD's investigation not the Select Committees. Nobody can say they know first-hand what's in the package other than Freeman & Wiggins for obvious repercussions if they did.
surely they can (notwithstanding medical confidentiality), if the doc prescribes me something then the dispensing chemist knows what I am getting....
If Cope didn't know (i.e. was asked for it) what was in the package then Freeman had to ask someone at BC for it and someone at BC had to put it in the envelope. Then someone had to give it to Cope. All of which should have generated a paper trail (I think we know what Cope had for lunch for example). That could have been one or three different people. I think I side with Kenworthy...extraordinary
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Anyway.......it got the flagship 08.10 slot on the Today programme this morning...even through my hangover it didn't sound good for ("I am told") Sir Dave....
samhocking said:gillan1969 said:samhocking said:Kenworthy seems to forget, It's UKAD's investigation not the Select Committees. Nobody can say they know first-hand what's in the package other than Freeman & Wiggins for obvious repercussions if they did.
surely they can (notwithstanding medical confidentiality), if the doc prescribes me something then the dispensing chemist knows what I am getting....
If Cope didn't know (i.e. was asked for it) what was in the package then Freeman had to ask someone at BC for it and someone at BC had to put it in the envelope. Then someone had to give it to Cope. All of which should have generated a paper trail (I think we know what Cope had for lunch for example). That could have been one or three different people. I think I side with Kenworthy...extraordinary
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Anyway.......it got the flagship 08.10 slot on the Today programme this morning...even through my hangover it didn't sound good for ("I am told") Sir Dave....
Yes, but your dispensing chemist is also bound, the same as your GP. They don't shout your name out against the substance in your prescription to the World do they.
End of the day, this is UKAD's investigation. Brailsford has asked them to get to the bottom of this. If they can't, then they need to say why they can't. Their boss blaming BC & Sky for not telling them must have a reason, they need to explain why UKAD can't say what was in the package, not for Brailsford to investigate and tell them himself.
samhocking said:It's more fundamental than that. If BC are telling the truth and UKAD have asked BC not to investigate, then it's not even a medical confidentiality issue yet. It seems to come down to UKAD both asking BC to do something and do nothing at the same time is the issue here.
sniper said:Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.
And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.
(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)
thehog said:sniper said:Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.
And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.
(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)
And to put it in perspective; supposedly in 2012 everyone had moved on from the "Lance Armstrong"; to now have Wiggins heckling the Daily Mail, making fun of the package on social media, Sutton telling members of parliament that they should not being doing the jobs that the general public pays them to do and Brailsford simply not giving a **** and playing with both the UKAD and British Cycling.
Cycling hasn't moved on, it's simply entrenched itself further, the only thing that changed was there was a former era to blame. Festina -> Lance Armstrong.
This is not entirely Vaughters fault when he is also culpable in trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes - again.
thehog said:samhocking said:It's more fundamental than that. If BC are telling the truth and UKAD have asked BC not to investigate, then it's not even a medical confidentiality issue yet. It seems to come down to UKAD both asking BC to do something and do nothing at the same time is the issue here.
More to the point, neither party wants to take responsibility. It also shows Sky has considerable power over BC and UKAD. They should suspend Wiggins for 4 years and strip of his 2012 Tour. Wiggins or Freeman won't fess up and there is nothing UKAD can do to compel them to talk. Anti-doping is toothless and always has been.
bigcog said:thehog said:samhocking said:It's more fundamental than that. If BC are telling the truth and UKAD have asked BC not to investigate, then it's not even a medical confidentiality issue yet. It seems to come down to UKAD both asking BC to do something and do nothing at the same time is the issue here.
More to the point, neither party wants to take responsibility. It also shows Sky has considerable power over BC and UKAD. They should suspend Wiggins for 4 years and strip of his 2012 Tour. Wiggins or Freeman won't fess up and there is nothing UKAD can do to compel them to talk. Anti-doping is toothless and always has been.
Indeed, I can then look forward to seeing Froome going for his fifth TDF victory this year.![]()
Very to the point again.thehog said:sniper said:Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.
And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.
(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)
And to put it in perspective; supposedly in 2012 everyone had moved on from the "Lance Armstrong" era; to now have Wiggins heckling the Daily Mail, making fun of the package on social media, Sutton telling members of parliament that they should not being doing the jobs that the general public pays them to do and Brailsford simply not giving a **** and playing with both the UKAD and British Cycling.
Cycling hasn't moved on, it's simply entrenched itself further, the only thing that changed was there was a former era to blame. Festina -> Lance Armstrong.
This is not entirely Vaughters fault but he is also culpable in trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes - again.
sniper said:Very to the point again.thehog said:sniper said:Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.
And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.
(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)
And to put it in perspective; supposedly in 2012 everyone had moved on from the "Lance Armstrong" era; to now have Wiggins heckling the Daily Mail, making fun of the package on social media, Sutton telling members of parliament that they should not being doing the jobs that the general public pays them to do and Brailsford simply not giving a **** and playing with both the UKAD and British Cycling.
Cycling hasn't moved on, it's simply entrenched itself further, the only thing that changed was there was a former era to blame. Festina -> Lance Armstrong.
This is not entirely Vaughters fault but he is also culpable in trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes - again.
It's cringeworthy. Both Kensworth and Collins got asked "do you believe the flumicil story?" and neither of them was able to give a simple "no" as an answer.
I realize Brita have a way of formulating things on a circumspect manner, but if after so many proven lies and jalftruths they still cant call a spade a spade, thats just sad.
Britain made to look like a bunch of medieval naive fools by all this charade.
thehog said:sniper said:Very to the point again.thehog said:sniper said:Nobody nutshells it like thehog does.
And today Matt Lawton tweets about "UKAD showing their teeth". I think that's a bit of an early celebration.
Seven years UKAD have been absolutely dormant at best, complicit in doping cover up more likely. And now Kensworth saying "extraordinary" equals UKAD "showing their teeth"?
That's too optimistic imo.
(Edit: not to take anything away from the great work Matt is doing atm)
And to put it in perspective; supposedly in 2012 everyone had moved on from the "Lance Armstrong" era; to now have Wiggins heckling the Daily Mail, making fun of the package on social media, Sutton telling members of parliament that they should not being doing the jobs that the general public pays them to do and Brailsford simply not giving a **** and playing with both the UKAD and British Cycling.
Cycling hasn't moved on, it's simply entrenched itself further, the only thing that changed was there was a former era to blame. Festina -> Lance Armstrong.
This is not entirely Vaughters fault but he is also culpable in trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes - again.
It's cringeworthy. Both Kensworth and Collins got asked "do you believe the flumicil story?" and neither of them was able to give a simple "no" as an answer.
I realize Brita have a way of formulating things on a circumspect manner, but if after so many proven lies and jalftruths they still cant call a spade a spade, thats just sad.
Britain made to look like a bunch of medieval naive fools by all this charade.
Don't worry the BikeRadar crew still believe![]()
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Apparently the witch hunt on Sky is getting in the way of a real doping story :lol:
42x16ss said:But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.
TheHog brought them and their nationalistic blindness into the conversation, ask him.pastronef said:42x16ss said:But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.
would this be important? I dont read bikeradar but by the many comments I read here, the clinic members who read bikeradar havent anything good to say about bikeradar members.
so why be bothered about those bikeradar forumites if you rate them and their opinion so low?
pastronef said:42x16ss said:But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.
would this be important? I dont read bikeradar but by the many comments I read here, the clinic members who read bikeradar havent anything good to say about bikeradar members.
so why be bothered about those bikeradar forumites if you rate them and their opinion so low?
thehog said:pastronef said:42x16ss said:But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.
would this be important? I dont read bikeradar but by the many comments I read here, the clinic members who read bikeradar havent anything good to say about bikeradar members.
so why be bothered about those bikeradar forumites if you rate them and their opinion so low?
Why? Because it's funny as hell thats why! :lol:
Where's your sense of humour at the those so blinded by being Brailsford/Sky fanboys they can't even being themselves to admit that Wiggins doped?
In all seriousness, it is also a good example that nothing has moved on or been learnt by the Lance Armstrong effect. Patriotism tends to lead the blind into darkness.
Benotti69 said:thehog said:pastronef said:42x16ss said:But an English member of Team Sky could go on a shooting spree in Central London and still get excused by most of the Bikeradar forumites.
would this be important? I dont read bikeradar but by the many comments I read here, the clinic members who read bikeradar havent anything good to say about bikeradar members.
so why be bothered about those bikeradar forumites if you rate them and their opinion so low?
Why? Because it's funny as hell thats why! :lol:
Where's your sense of humour at the those so blinded by being Brailsford/Sky fanboys they can't even being themselves to admit that Wiggins doped?
In all seriousness, it is also a good example that nothing has moved on or been learnt by the Lance Armstrong effect. Patriotism tends to lead the blind into darkness.
Brailsford saw this and it is why he made such a big deal of it being a British team, and their goal of getting the 1st British winner of the TdF.
Rapha saw the potential too and have it appears saw the writing on the wall and sold to a bigger corp.