David Millar Velocitynation

[filipo]

No! "(EPO's the holy grail to winning the Tour, the be all, end all)". It has to have a rider seeing success from the get go & the success sees a continuation.

The logic! It burns!

So Riis started taking EPO when, exactly?

 

[Ripper]

I hear you can get EPO for cheap on the Internet. Can I forward you some links?

...
Good one!

 

[pmcg76]

Remember that Ariostea team of 92-93

Argentin
Sorensen
Furlan
Cassani
Lietti
Saligari
Richard
Cenghialta
Conti
Lelli
Ferrigato
Elli
Riis

Apart from Argentin, Sorensen and maybe Richard, all of them were nobodies and most of them had been pros since mid 80s but all only started going well from the time Aegentin & Ferrari arrived in the team. Lelli was one of the newer riders but of course was caught up in the Cofidis affair.

 

[zapata]

like I posted in the other thread

"I don't contribute much to the clinic, because i don't have any special knowledge or inside information about doping. I'm just a fan, who comes here to learn, since there are some very knowledgeable and well informed people posting here, and the best threads are very informative. however, it's very frustrating when what's looking to be a good thread, is destroyed by some moron posting things he can't possibly believe in himself, over and over again. (Like, for instance, "epo doesn't work", and variations of this.) I strongly encourage the posters here who actually knows something about cycling and doping (you know who you are..) to keep posting, and for the other morons: i sincerely hope you lose your fingers and are forced to type with your nose."

The point being, I sincerely hope you who actually know something keep posting despite these cretins. I am very thankful to you for teaching me much that I did not know.

 

[Rise Of The Dead]

So Riis started taking EPO when, exactly?

When he started, he wasn't seeing success. When he did see success, EPO didn't keep the trend. Can't we place EPO as the holy grail to his success. No. The success didn't continue over clean riders after his main success still on EPO.

 

[pmcg76]

When he started, he wasn't seeing success. When he did see success, EPO didn't keep the trend. Can't we place EPO as the holy grail to his success. No. The success didn't continue over clean riders after his main success still on EPO.

Ok, lets forget Riis as you clealry dont have a clue and hes not the topic. Back to Millar, you see Millar as a rider who didnt achieve anything on EPO. According to Millar himself, his best results were achieved whilst he took EPO and obviously had less success when he wasnt on EPO but you disagree. Why would he lie about such a thing??

 

[filipo]

No, I can't answer your question.

Wasn't so hard, was it.

 

[Ripper]

Ok, lets forget Riis as you clealry dont have a clue and hes not the topic. Back to Millar, you see Millar as a rider who didnt achieve anything on EPO. According to Millar himself, his best results were achieved whilst he took EPO and obviously had less success when he wasnt on EPO but you disagree. Why would he lie about such a thing??

And correct me if I wrong pmcg76, but I think Miller also noted that he lives a much more dedicated lifestyle now. He sounds like he was living a bit of the rockstar lifestyle back then. Which all simply adds to how much EPO must have helped.

 

[filipo]

Remember that Ariostea team of 92-93

Argentin
Sorensen
Furlan
Cassani
Lietti
Saligari
Richard
Cenghialta
Conti
Lelli
Ferrigato
Elli
Riis

Apart from Argentin, Sorensen and maybe Richard, all of them were nobodies and most of them had been pros since mid 80s but all only started going well from the time Aegentin & Ferrari arrived in the team. Lelli was one of the newer riders but of course was caught up in the Cofidis affair.

What a team! Those were the days, man, I tell you. They were Festina before Festina.

 

[Jukebox]

Two quick points.

1. Riis was 32, I believe, when he won the tour, a natural peak for a GT rider.
2. EPO is unable to make everyone a tour winner, because all 186 or so starters can't end up winning... Much less those that do not start.

 

[pmcg76]

What a team! Those were the days, man, I tell you. They were Festina before Festina.

Yeah, they just all started winning en-masse, they were a small team in 1990 with only a few stars Argentin, Sorensen but then from 91 on, they kicked ****. I remember them totally dominating Tirreno-Adriacto in 93, they won almost all the stages and were fighting amongst themselves for the overall. I think Furlan won, could be wrong. Richard, Furlan 1-2 at Lombardy and so much in between. They were the forebearer of Gewiss. It was always put down to Giancarlo Ferrettis iron leadership and a team ethos. Ah, dont think so.

 

[Race Radio]

Two quick points.

1. Riis was 32, I believe, when he won the tour, a natural peak for a GT rider.
2. EPO is unable to make everyone a tour winner, because all 186 or so starters can't end up winning... Much less those that do not start.

32 a natural peak for a GT rider? Since when? Prior to EPO GT riders would be retired by then

 

[pmcg76]

Two quick points.

1. Riis was 32, I believe, when he won the tour, a natural peak for a GT rider.
2. EPO is unable to make everyone a tour winner, because all 186 or so starters can't end up winning... Much less those that do not start.

Riis might have been at a peak but Riis winning the Tour would be akin to Jose Angel Gomez Marchante winning the Tour in 5 years time. How likely is that?

 

[Jukebox]

Riis might have been at a peak but Riis winning the Tour would be akin to Jose Angel Gomez Marchante winning the Tour in 5 years time. How likely is that?

Completely unlikely. I agree with your side of the argument btw...

 

[filipo]

Yeah, they just all started winning en-masse, they were a small team in 1990 with only a few stars Argentin, Sorensen but then from 91 on, they kicked ****. I remember them totally dominating Tirreno-Adriacto in 93, they won almost all the stages and were fighting amongst themselves for the overall. I think Furlan won, could be wrong. Richard, Furlan 1-2 at Lombardy and so much in between. They were the forebearer of Gewiss. It was always put down to Giancarlo Ferrettis iron leadership and a team ethos. Ah, dont think so.

I remember being shocked when I heard Stuart O'Grady was going to ride for Ferretti, since that pretty much meant he wanted to ride for a specific "kind" of director. Ah, those days when such things were shocking...

Signing off now; thanks for the trip down Drug Ave -- I mean, Memory Lane -- pmcg.

 

[zapata]

Yeah, they just all started winning en-masse, they were a small team in 1990 with only a few stars Argentin, Sorensen but then from 91 on, they kicked ****. I remember them totally dominating Tirreno-Adriacto in 93, they won almost all the stages and were fighting amongst themselves for the overall. I think Furlan won, could be wrong. Richard, Furlan 1-2 at Lombardy and so much in between. They were the forebearer of Gewiss. It was always put down to Giancarlo Ferrettis iron leadership and a team ethos. Ah, dont think so.

one thing: I do think ferretti, despite everything, is (was?) a brilliant DS. But yes, they were all doped, as was everyone on fassa bortolo. and everyone else. i miss fassa bortolo!

 

[filipo]

32 a natural peak for a GT rider? Since when? Prior to EPO GT riders would be retired by then

Kids today, I tell you. They don't know nothing...

 

[filipo]

one thing: I do think ferretti, despite everything, is (was?) a brilliant DS. But yes, they were all doped, as was everyone on fassa bortolo. and everyone else. i miss fassa bortolo!

So does Ale-Jet.

 

[Jukebox]

Kids today, I tell you. They don't know nothing...

Just here trying to learn.

However, whenever a gc rider's peak is it's hard for everyone that enters the race to win. Drugs or not, somebody has to lose.

 

[zapata]

Two quick points.

1. Riis was 32, I believe, when he won the tour, a natural peak for a GT rider.
2. EPO is unable to make everyone a tour winner, because all 186 or so starters can't end up winning... Much less those that do not start.

Splendid! Then I've stilll got a chance to win a grand tour.

 

[zapata]

Two quick points.

1. Riis was 32, I believe, when he won the tour, a natural peak for a GT rider.
2. EPO is unable to make everyone a tour winner, because all 186 or so starters can't end up winning... Much less those that do not start.

So does Ale-Jet.

that was a great train! I don't generally care for the pure sprinters and their trains, but velo and bruseghin and the gang made some spectacle.

 

[Jukebox]

Splendid! Then I've stilll got a chance to win a grand tour.

Ah, taking off my *** hat it's easier to remember the whole 'winning really early if you have any class' thing. Don't mind me.

 

[zapata]

Ah, taking off my *** hat it's easier to remember the whole 'winning really early if you have any class' thing. Don't mind me.

Hehe! Don't mind me, either. Have you seen the size of my ***-hat? my avatar doesn't do it justice.

 

[Rise Of The Dead]

Ok, lets forget Riis as you clealry dont have a clue and hes not the topic. Back to Millar, you see Millar as a rider who didnt achieve anything on EPO. According to Millar himself, his best results were achieved whilst he took EPO and obviously had less success when he wasnt on EPO but you disagree. Why would he lie about such a thing??

Don't get me started...

The benefits Millar saw with my eyeballs swimming to the gills in EPO;

2000 TDF: 62nd Place
2001 TDF: Abandoned after Stage 10
2002 TDF: 68th Place
2003 TDF: 55th Place

I do disagree, now theres a suprise. His results in the Tour tell you everything about its benefits. I don't need to tell you anything. Did Millar see a continuation of success in the Tours & classics after EPO???.

2006
1st Individual pursuit, British National Track Championships
1st Stage 14, Vuelta a España
2007
1st British National Road Race Championships
1st British National Time Trial Championships
1st Prologue, Paris-Nice
2008
1st Stage 1 TTT Giro d'Italia
2nd Overall Tour of California
2009
1st Stage 20 Vuelta a España
1st Edinburgh Nocturne
Combativity award Stage 6, Tour de France

Again, I disagree. In fact, it can be argued he saw more success post EPO, as opposed to when he was swimming to the gills.

Millar was to ingonarant to know that increasing the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood was only one limited factor to increasing cycling performance. He had another 8 or so legal factors to take advantage of but decided not to, EPO was better than dedicating his life to cycling & looking at other ways of increasing cycling performance.

 

[zapata]

Don't get me started...

The benefits Millar saw with my eyeballs swimming to the gills in EPO;

2000 TDF: 62nd Place
2001 TDF: Abandoned after Stage 10
2002 TDF: 68th Place
2003 TDF: 55th Place

I do disagree, now theres a suprise. His results in the Tour tell you everything about its benefits. I don't need to tell you anything. Did Millar see a continuation of success in the Tours & classics after EPO???.

2006
1st Individual pursuit, British National Track Championships
1st Stage 14, Vuelta a España
2007
1st British National Road Race Championships
1st British National Time Trial Championships
1st Prologue, Paris-Nice
2008
1st Stage 1 TTT Giro d'Italia
2nd Overall Tour of California
2009
1st Stage 20 Vuelta a España
1st Edinburgh Nocturne
Combativity award Stage 6, Tour de France

Again, I disagree. In fact, it can be argued he saw more success post EPO, as opposed to when he was swimming to the gills.

Millar was to ingonarant to know that increasing the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood was only one limited factor to increasing cycling performance. He had another 8 or so legal factors to take advantage of but decided not to, EPO was better than dedicating his life to cycling & looking at other ways of increasing cycling performance.

Millar was never a GC-rider. Him finishing 62nd in 2000 is neither here nor there. Where did mark cavendish finish in the GC last year? And who cares? Also: go away, please.