Dekker's Positive

[ak-zaaf]

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/member.php?u=923 - this guy will be Pi**ed haha.

why?

i still think vinokourov is a hero.
i have a bottle of champagne in my basement for the day of his comeback (or the day my mother-in-law dies. whichever comes first.)

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

why?

i still think vinokourov is a hero.
i have a bottle of champagne in my basement for the day of his comeback (or the day my mother-in-law dies. whichever comes first.)

i'd be pi**ed if my favorite rider was caught doping. Being his hero still, wont prevent him from not liking this news.

I agree with you on vino tho, I can't wait for his return

And yup totally agree with the horner comment...

 

[auscyclefan94]

Not re-signing Horner comes back to haunt Lotto again. Things would have been so much easier...

Cadel probably doesn't need this kind of stress either since he's trying to take a more relaxed feeling into this year's Tour. But Wegelius is a good rider and I think he'll do well for the team, as well as Aerts did last year.

totally agree!

 

[issoisso]

isn't dekker tifosi an editor for dekkers site? i thought so. the site is currently "offline"

That's who I meant by "someone close to dekker".

And no, he's not ****ed. He's not naive, so he no doubt guessed at some point that Dekker couldn't possibly be having those results clean

Would you like me to fetch him for you?

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

that's true.

Anywhu, overall i think this is good news. Slowly but surely cycling is getting cleaner, riders have got to be getting nervous taking the risk of doping nowadays.

 

[Rothar]

The sample was originally taken on December 24, of 2007

Seems very strange that a sample from December was positive. Why would anybody be on this stuff in the off season. I can only think that he must have just been at or was getting ready for a team training camp.

 

[Angliru]

I give up. i swear this comment has no bias. lotto have been and will be scapegoated with most the blame. yes from what i have just learnt that it was a too bigger risk taking him.

Hey auscyclefan94 my last post was sent before reading all your posts. My bad. Don't get down. Lotto is so close to a Tour win with Evans and at his age the door is swinging shut in a couple of years or less with the young talent rising as his competition. They just made acquisitions out of desparation without doing their due diligence.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

The sample was originally taken on December 24, of 2007

Seems very strange that a sample from December was positive. Why would anybody be on this stuff in the off season. I can only think that he must have just been at or was getting ready for a team training camp.

It seems that riders get addicted to using EPO.
Sella e.g. said, if I am not totally mistaken, after testing positive in a time where he really didn't need to take CERA that he just went on doing it because of some sort of addiction to it.
I heard the same kind of story several times, though I don't exactly remember about or from whom I did.
But I remember Manzano mentioning the addiction to blood doping in his Sport Studio (biggest German weekly sports report show) interview.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I'm shocked.

If they just drew straws to see who is going to get busted for doping, it would be just as fair and arbitrary as what they're doing now.

 

[ak-zaaf]

It seems that riders get addicted to using EPO.
Sella e.g. said, if I am not totally mistaken, after testing positive in a time where he really didn't need to take CERA that he just went on doing it because of some sort of addiction to it.
I heard the same kind of story several times, though I don't exactly remember about or from whom I did.
But I remember Manzano mentioning the addiction to blood doping in his Sport Studio (biggest German weekly sports report show) interview.

euh...

he was having hip-problems in the last months of 2007. i guess he was falling behind with training.

addiction seems a bit far fetched

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

@ak-zaaf

Yeah but EPO is blood doping.
You don't need it for muscles do you?

 

[ak-zaaf]

@ak-zaaf

Yeah but EPO is blood doping.
You don't need it for muscles do you?

you can train a lot harder and longer with epo.
if you're a month behind with winter-training it certainly helps.

 

[Bala Verde]

rabobank would have pulled the plug if anything happened with one of the big riders after the rasmussen affair.

so they made a deal with dekker [paranoia]and forced boogerd, who was still good enough, to end his carrier because of the vienna story. explains way they didn't even offer him a minor job after all his years with rabo[/paranoia]

Yeah, I always thought that Boogerd story smelled fishy. In a way, he has been one of the main protagonists for RAB throughout the last decennium, and after his career end, they spat him out like a cheap hubbabubba. It's either paranoia, as you say, or perhaps they had found enough circumstancial evidence so that they could not keep him on board in fear of future repercussions.

It's not 'all rose fragrance and moon shine' at RAB either

[undue incrimination alert] As mentioned earlier, Bettini was suing ZDF, for damaging his image after they had reported that Sinkewitz provided him with doping products. Now, who was Boogerd's main antagonist again in the classics? [/undue incrimination alert]

 

[messisgod]

The sample was originally taken on December 24, of 2007

Seems very strange that a sample from December was positive. Why would anybody be on this stuff in the off season. I can only think that he must have just been at or was getting ready for a team training camp.

One reason is if you're having blood extracted for reinfusion later in the year, you can use the EPO (with HgH, apparently) to rapidly return your red blood cell levels back to "normal".

 

[Animal]

Think gesink has made this blow hurt a lot less.

PFF!!

Don't get your hopes up.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Feels like a knife in my back. To think I defended him all the time.. and then this

 

[ak-zaaf]

[undue incrimination alert] As mentioned earlier, Bettini was suing ZDF, for damaging his image after they had reported that Sinkewitz provided him with doping products. Now, who was Boogerd's main antagonist again in the classics? [/undue incrimination alert]

boogerd was always funny that way

lombardia
1998, 2nd to camenzind (epo)

gold race
2003, 2nd to vino (doped in tour)
2004, 2nd to rebellin (caught recently)
2005, 2nd to di luca (blood for oil)
2006, 3rd: schleck won (fuentes implications)
the 2007 podium was also nice with schumacher, rebellin and di luca

lbl
1999, 2nd to GOD (no explanation needed)
2003. 3rd after hamilton (evil-twin) and mayo (caught for epo)
2004, 2nd to rebellin (again)
2005, first to come in after the vino (and voigt) break
after that no podium but always in the first group, valverde won twice and di luca once.


but didn't boogerd once say that "he did what everyone else did"?

 

[Parrot23]

One thing I couldn't understand is why Dekker could climb so well, yet live in a flat country. This might be a really naive comment given Gesink and other Dutch climbers etc. before. (And Van Velde trains in Chicago in winter, and uses big gears to simulate climbing, LOL!).

Or did Dekker train in Italy with Cechinni a lot?

But I was always wondering why he could climb so well....

(But these retroactive test announcements are tough; don't mind the deterrent effect with tour winners, but with second stringers, though, it seems a little unjust....). Hit the guys so hard who are trying to make the podium, but so many winners are clean.

 

[elapid]

One thing I couldn't understand is why Dekker could climb so well, yet live in a flat country. This might be a really naive comment given Gesink and other Dutch climbers etc. before. (And Van Velde trains in Chicago in winter, and uses big gears to simulate climbing, LOL!).

Or did Dekker train in Italy with Cechinni a lot?

But I was always wondering why he could climb so well....

(But these retroactive test announcements are tough; don't mind the deterrent effect with tour winners, but with second stringers, though, it seems a little unjust....). Hit the guys so hard who are trying to make the podium, but so many winners are clean.

I think there have been more Dutch winners on Alpe d'Huez in the TdF than any other country.

 

[Bala Verde]

but didn't boogerd once say that "he did what everyone else did"?

well now you put it that way, with the overview and all...

The only thing I think I heard him say, when he was interviewed for a documentary by Mart Smeets, is that he never used anything that was banned.

He was a little ambiguous about it, you know when people are bad liars, they give it away by saying something using the wrong intonation etc. He countered Mart's question "have you ever used doping" by saying "what is doping, I mean, caffeine was on the list once, and then it was taken off"...

 

[ak-zaaf]

One thing I couldn't understand is why Dekker could climb so well, yet live in a flat country.

since i'm hanging in this thread anyway:

it seems true climbers are 'born'.

best example is the legendary theofiel middelkamp. coming from zeeuws-vlaanderen he had never seen a mountain or anything like it before coming to the tour de france in 1936. he won the queens-stage over the galibier on a bike with a fixed gear.

 

[ak-zaaf]

well now you put it that way, with the overview and all...

The only thing I think I heard him say, when he was interviewed for a documentary by Mart Smeets, is that he never used anything that was banned.

He was a little ambiguous about it, you know when people are bad liars, they give it away by saying something using the wrong intonation etc. He countered Mart's question "have you ever used doping" by saying "what is doping, I mean, caffeine was on the list once, and then it was taken off"...

when the 50+ rule was forced most riders figured: anything under 50 is 'legal'.

 

[Bala Verde]

One thing I couldn't understand is why Dekker could climb so well, yet live in a flat country. This might be a really naive comment given Gesink and other Dutch climbers etc. before. (And Van Velde trains in Chicago in winter, and uses big gears to simulate climbing, LOL!).

Gesink always goes to the Posbank, a 'steep hill' to do his intervals On a more serious note, the Netherlands are flat, but also windy. I think Gesink, who is a power output watt freak, said something to the extent that he uses the strong headwinds to simulate climbing. Pounding hard into the headwind, without giving your legs a rest, while maintaining a high wattage. The headwind basically becomes a gradient... Obviously a certain body-type would enable that more

Isn't Chicago called the windy city?

For watt it's worth...

EDIT: ak-zaaf mentioned Zeeland, also very windy...

 

[Parrot23]

Okay, very good! Yes, Chicago is windy. Headwind on a false flat is hell. Thanks for the info. guys.

Now I also know why Rabo can create havoc driving into the wind (don't CSC try to do that, too?). Created big problem for Contador at Paris Nice, if I remember.

Astana have to watch that with Contador. Maybe this is why Rast was picked over Horner etc., LOL. Just joking.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Okay, very good! Yes, Chicago is windy. Headwind on a false flat is hell. Thanks for the info. guys.

Now I also know why Rabo can create havoc driving into the wind (don't CSC try to do that, too?). Created big problem for Contador at Paris Nice, if I remember.

Astana have to watch that with Contador. Maybe this is why Rast was picked over Horner etc., LOL. Just joking.

the chavanel stage got them in a small panic for sure.

waaiers are maybe the most beautiful thing in cycling. only the strongest survive. one weak moment, you lose 5 meters and there is no coming back.

paris-nice this or last year had a shortened stage of about 90km with strong winds and rabo and quick-step blew everything apart. gaps everywhere. steegmans won i think. only groups of max 20 riders left, totally destroyed after no more than 100km... almost art