Replace 1991 with 1996 and you would have a point, now you just look a bit ridiculous. Just like epocino at that time.Eshnar said:
Little note: the dope made them the top. The Conconi boys.
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Little note: the dope made them the top. The Conconi boys.
thehog said:
Good series of posts hog!
I don't know weather they are right or wrong but I certainly found them interesting!
IndianCyclist said:
Agreed, therefore Cyclingnews is highly suspicious given that they hosted a Ferrari column for a number of years.
On the other hand, any pro cyclist who is clean is automatically closely linked with questionable doctors or Directeur sport if even if they are Bassons or Moncoutié or Delion.
About Di Lucas positive, I have an outragous theory:
Di Luca was being targeted for testing due to suspicious but not conclusive bio passport tests.
Di Luca was using the standard epo micro dosing thing that is thought to be undetectable.
His samples were taken to the cologne lab, which i theorize is usually the first to get improved procedures and equipment.
They flag him, and now he is out.
Meaning micro dosing with epo might not be as safe as previously assumed.
Being a long time doper with financial recourses, I find it difficult to assume that he did not use the most advanced methods. Hence I'm of the opinion that microdosing if you are flagged as worth targeting by the BP, is no longer a safe option.
It could of course be that someone in the UCI is still able to protect certain riders, and Di Luca was not deemed worthy of protection.
It could also be that this protection does not make one immune to targeted testing. And if that testing finds a positive, protection is no longer possible.
Perhaps this protection is limited to cases were the BP is the only evidence.
Or perhaps there is no longer any protection available, and that the amount of dopers caught is at this time more a question of funding available for targeted testing?
Di Luca was being targeted for testing due to suspicious but not conclusive bio passport tests.
Di Luca was using the standard epo micro dosing thing that is thought to be undetectable.
His samples were taken to the cologne lab, which i theorize is usually the first to get improved procedures and equipment.
They flag him, and now he is out.
Meaning micro dosing with epo might not be as safe as previously assumed.
Being a long time doper with financial recourses, I find it difficult to assume that he did not use the most advanced methods. Hence I'm of the opinion that microdosing if you are flagged as worth targeting by the BP, is no longer a safe option.
It could of course be that someone in the UCI is still able to protect certain riders, and Di Luca was not deemed worthy of protection.
It could also be that this protection does not make one immune to targeted testing. And if that testing finds a positive, protection is no longer possible.
Perhaps this protection is limited to cases were the BP is the only evidence.
Or perhaps there is no longer any protection available, and that the amount of dopers caught is at this time more a question of funding available for targeted testing?
Le breton said:
I suspected cyclingnews are using PEDs long before that. This forum is unusually well run as far as internet forums go. Not normal.
Eshnar said:
If you look at the French scene at the beginning of the 90's, it is clear they teams/racers that doped were still resorting to the techniques of the 80's - cortisone, possibly HGH, etc - following the lead of Cyrille Guimard.
They switched to EPO in 1994 : see that year the results of Luc Leblanc, Virenque and a few others.
http://hetiskoers.nl/2012/vergeten-wielrenner-delion-gilles/Le breton said:
Gilles Delion (August 5, 1966)
If there was a gold medal for the most honest of all cyclists, it would be an exciting fight between Christophe Bassons and Gilles Delion.
And Delion would eventually win.
Gilles Delion was fond of cycling, but less fond of medication. The story goes that he ate apples where rusty nails were hidden to keep his iron levels up.
But further Gilles Delion was pretty normal, though. He studied mathematics and chemistry at the university untill he could turn pro at the Swiss Weinmann team.
The love for the bike wins over his study. He will never graduate.
At Weinmann - and later Helvetia - he meets Paul Koechli. He saw it quickly: toptalent that Delion. Going to win the Tour in a few years.
He himself says: "On a good day I can beat anyone."
In 1990 it looks that way. The first steps are more than promising: best young rider in the Tour (fifteenth in the final standings) and winner of the Tour of Lombardy.
Who wins Lombardy, is actually not anymore a promise.
However, the biggest impression he made was in the preseason, the Critérium International. Delion has a big weekend, he has two days when his legs do exactly what his head instructs.
On the Cote de Vidaque he rides the cream of the peloton off the wheel: Jean-François Bernard, Laurent Jalabert, Charly Mottet, Sean Kelly, Viatcheslav Ekimov, Rolf Gölz, Ronan Pensec, Claudy Criquelion and Miguel Indurain .
Only Laurent Fignon can follow him, even though his tongue hangs on his wheel.
Everyone feels: here rides a super talent.
Later his first good year will show to be his best one. Weekends as in March 1990 he has, sometimes, very rarely, but they are not noticed any more.
A year later he is still 21th in the Tour. Disappointing, but for someone with a mild form of Pfeiffer still an achievement.
And then, in 1992, the year of his comeback, it is over
In races in which he rode in his early years with the first, he is now happy when he gets to the finish. Marginal riders like Chiapucci humiliate what Gilles has considered as his terrain.
He is gifted a Tour stage in Valkenburg but he is no longer a contendor.
Actually, everyone knows what is happening here. Koechli and Delion may be anti-doping, they are obviously not anti-intelligent. The two say goodbye and Gilles goes to Cyrille Guimard to try to revive his carreer.
It is not a success. He gets only some crumbs that less talented but better prepared colleagues leave for him.
Gilles' principles will neck him that he already knows but succumb to the pressure of cheating is simply not an option.
It is six years after his breakthrough in the Critérium International. 1996, the peak of the blood battle that cycling has become. Somewhere in the back of his head Gilles Delion has still a glimmer of hope: hope he will be good again, hoping he will be competing with the best again..
Against his better judgment.
Precisely on the Cote de Vidaque he sees them one by one pulling away: Gianetti, Vandenbroucke, Herve, Brochard, Coppolilo, Virenque, Stephens, Rous, Boardman. They drive a petrol he does not allow in his body.
He could have spoken, but remains silent. He decides as he has been silent since he was fourteen, since he first heard from a boyfriend that there were guys who knew more of pills and powders than gears. Those boys had to know for themselves, Gilles thought, and still does.
That year he terminates his cycling career. He climbs on the mountainbike that same week and soon reached the French top. He retains the pleasure in this sport until 2001. Then Gilles Delion says its enough.
Sometimes, on a dark moment, he mourns his best years who were smothered in principles. Never long, he had never wanted otherwise.
IndianCyclist said:Unfortunately for Evans, he is linked to Ferrari
You actually said that he was a doper. Now you say that he is associated with doping. Make up your mind. My whole point is that you should be careful how you post. Why not amend your post to: "In my opinion, due to his association with Ferrari, Evans may well be/has been a doper". Like that there is no argument!
Dear Wiggo said:
Urine test.
The saddest thing about this is we understand nothing except that Di Luca tested positive for epo traces found in his urine.
Was he singled out due to who he is? How many riders urine is tested to the same test as the Cologne lab?
The sad and sorry story of cycling's failure to confront doping lurches on.
ianfra said:
Evans is a doper.
Look at the teams he rode for, look at his results during the epo era. He won the TdF. He rides for a team where one their soigneurs was caught with a boot load of PEDS.
Benotti69 said:
Evans wasn't riding for them at the time the Soigneur was caught though.
Don't think Och should be allowed in cycling though.
Benotti69 said:
Would be interesting to see the test results then - coz it's isoforms, I believe, rather than a specific molecule, when tested via urine.
del1962 said:
It was about 2 weeks before the 2011 Tour... not that Evans would be so unprofessional as to need a team soigneur for dope.
Ferminal said:
I am talking about when it happened, not the arrest being made.
httphttp://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bmc-soigneur-implicated-in-drug-investigation://
Big Doopie
BANNED
Fearless Greg Lemond said:http://hetiskoers.nl/2012/vergeten-wielrenner-delion-gilles/
Gilles Delion (August 5, 1966)
If there was a gold medal for the most honest of all cyclists, it would be an exciting fight between Christophe Bassons and Gilles Delion.
And Delion would eventually win.
Gilles Delion was fond of cycling, but less fond of medication. The story goes that he ate apples where rusty nails were hidden to keep his iron levels up.
But further Gilles Delion was pretty normal, though. He studied mathematics and chemistry at the university untill he could turn pro at the Swiss Weinmann team.
The love for the bike wins over his study. He will never graduate.
At Weinmann - and later Helvetia - he meets Paul Koechli. He saw it quickly: toptalent that Delion. Going to win the Tour in a few years.
He himself says: "On a good day I can beat anyone."
In 1990 it looks that way. The first steps are more than promising: best young rider in the Tour (fifteenth in the final standings) and winner of the Tour of Lombardy.
Who wins Lombardy, is actually not anymore a promise.
However, the biggest impression he made was in the preseason, the Critérium International. Delion has a big weekend, he has two days when his legs do exactly what his head instructs.
On the Cote de Vidaque he rides the cream of the peloton off the wheel: Jean-François Bernard, Laurent Jalabert, Charly Mottet, Sean Kelly, Viatcheslav Ekimov, Rolf Gölz, Ronan Pensec, Claudy Criquelion and Miguel Indurain .
Only Laurent Fignon can follow him, even though his tongue hangs on his wheel.
Everyone feels: here rides a super talent.
Later his first good year will show to be his best one. Weekends as in March 1990 he has, sometimes, very rarely, but they are not noticed any more.
A year later he is still 21th in the Tour. Disappointing, but for someone with a mild form of Pfeiffer still an achievement.
And then, in 1992, the year of his comeback, it is over
In races in which he rode in his early years with the first, he is now happy when he gets to the finish. Marginal riders like Chiapucci humiliate what Gilles has considered as his terrain.
He is gifted a Tour stage in Valkenburg but he is no longer a contendor.
Actually, everyone knows what is happening here. Koechli and Delion may be anti-doping, they are obviously not anti-intelligent. The two say goodbye and Gilles goes to Cyrille Guimard to try to revive his carreer.
It is not a success. He gets only some crumbs that less talented but better prepared colleagues leave for him.
Gilles' principles will neck him that he already knows but succumb to the pressure of cheating is simply not an option.
It is six years after his breakthrough in the Critérium International. 1996, the peak of the blood battle that cycling has become. Somewhere in the back of his head Gilles Delion has still a glimmer of hope: hope he will be good again, hoping he will be competing with the best again..
Against his better judgment.
Precisely on the Cote de Vidaque he sees them one by one pulling away: Gianetti, Vandenbroucke, Herve, Brochard, Coppolilo, Virenque, Stephens, Rous, Boardman. They drive a petrol he does not allow in his body.
He could have spoken, but remains silent. He decides as he has been silent since he was fourteen, since he first heard from a boyfriend that there were guys who knew more of pills and powders than gears. Those boys had to know for themselves, Gilles thought, and still does.
That year he terminates his cycling career. He climbs on the mountainbike that same week and soon reached the French top. He retains the pleasure in this sport until 2001. Then Gilles Delion says its enough.
Sometimes, on a dark moment, he mourns his best years who were smothered in principles. Never long, he had never wanted otherwise.
Tx fgl. Good to see it chronicled tho depressing.
Though at different stages of their career the timeline of the dropping in competitiveness in the early 90s not surprisingly mirrors Lemond to a tee.
Delion, however, is probably even more impressive in that he refused to dope when so much success was still promised. Lemond has said the fact that he had already won three tours helped to keep him clean.
Man, I hate freakin' chiappucci.
del1962 said:
Sven Schoutteten, on Monday of the week June 27 2011 there was a search in the town of Ypres; it has been said that syringes and needles were found.
Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8...eur-implicated-in-EPO-case.aspx#ixzz2UP9IwF4L
So a BMC team soigneur arrested on June 27, 2011 shows that Evans is above suspicion? Nope what it shows is that nothing in the sport has changed.
CleanER, where and when did the sport clean up its act?
thehog
BANNED
ianfra said:
All samples are anonymous with a code to match to a riders name.
Drug testing is independent. Authorities do not know the names of riders for specific tests.
The passport committee is independent. They do not deal with riders names.
You know that.
Matty_Tucks said:
What crime in this scenario has sufficient penalties worthy of a trial? A soigneur with some syringes and perhaps some substances that may or may not be vaguely regulated. As long as it is not real black market drugs,(ex. heroin) a prosecutor would not bother even if there was a crime.
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