Di Luca tests positive for EPO in OOC test.

[ianfra]

Fran, do you make mistakes when using french or thai?

Genuine mistakes and ignorance are two different things.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Genuine mistakes and ignorance are two different things.

Which one best describes Phil Liggett's take on Lance Armstrong, pre-reasoned decision?

 

[ianfra]

Knowing Phil as I do, I think Phil was truly blinded to the rampant doping in the sport, and in particular LA's, because of his deep love for the sport. Phil's love of this sport comes out of every pore of his body - he is a genuinely nice guy (too nice) and could never turn round and accuse someone of doping. He could not bring himself to be the bearer of such bad news although I believe that deep inside he knew the score. He could not admit it, even to himself. Having said that, I believe that Phil feels let down by LA and extremely sad about how things turned out for the sport and for LA. What Phil does not understand (I think) is LA's ability to manipulate everyone. Sadly, sociopaths are ace manipulators - I have experienced how they work in my own life - and in LA's case it was not just peeps like the Irish Tinker who heads our sport, it was the French President and Phil. All important people to have on board and well within the capabilities of a sociopath to manipulate these folk. Phil's a good guy but he was twisted around LA's little finger. I may be wrong about this stuff, but it is my current viewpoint.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Knowing Phil as I do, I think Phil was truly blinded to the rampant doping in the sport, and in particular LA's, because of his deep love for the sport. Phil's love of this sport comes out of every pore of his body - he is a genuinely nice guy (too nice) and could never turn round and accuse someone of doping. He could not bring himself to be the bearer of such bad news although I believe that deep inside he knew the score. He could not admit it, even to himself. Having said that, I believe that Phil feels let down by LA and extremely sad about how things turned out for the sport and for LA. What Phil does not understand (I think) is LA's ability to manipulate everyone. Sadly, sociopaths are ace manipulators - I have experienced how they work in my own life - and in LA's case it was not just peeps like the Irish Tinker who heads our sport, it was the French President and Phil. All important people to have on board and well within the capabilities of a sociopath to manipulate these folk. Phil's a good guy but he was twisted around LA's little finger. I may be wrong about this stuff, but it is my current viewpoint.

I think you just described the poster in the Clinic posting under the username, "ianfra".

 

[ianfra]

I think you just described the poster in the Clinic posting under the username, "ianfra".

What an erudite response.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Phil's love of this sport comes out of every pore of his body - he is a genuinely nice guy (too nice)

Note: quote severely truncated.....

with regards to Phil I see three possibilities:

1. Gullible fan
2. A facilitator
3. A "*****"

Too much insider information rules out option 1, don't think the brain works well enough for the 2nd, which leaves us with the the final choice.

In many countries it is not against the law to be a "*****".

Edit: Use groupie instead. You get the idea.

 

[Franklin]

Genuine mistakes and ignorance are two different things.

I accept your appology for the B sample, do you accept my humble appology about saying Mideval when I should have used Medieval?

An honest mistake of an ignorant Non-native English speaker

 

[ianfra]

I accept 100%!!!!!!!

 

[del1962]

Why not wait for the B-sample to be tested?

You must be upset that his team sacked him prior to the B sample

 

[deboat]

The B sample is being not yet tested brings up many questions for me. Why even have a B sample when your A sample test positive and then you get sacked and everyone hates you. OK,, six months later some do return to the pros as a born again anti doper...

If I was found with a pound of crack by the police I would still be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

What happens now if his B sample is OK??
I do not live under a rock and I have a very good idea and understanding that his B sample will be a big positive but what if??

 

[TomasC]

Don't worry, it's taken care of.

 

[Kender]

The B sample is being not yet tested brings up many questions for me. Why even have a B sample when your A sample test positive and then you get sacked and everyone hates you. OK,, six months later some do return to the pros as a born again anti doper...

If I was found with a pound of crack by the police I would still be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

What happens now if his B sample is OK?? I do not live under a rock and I have a very good idea and understanding that his B sample will be a big positive but what if??

then the athlete is cleared and can be reinstated.

Marion Jones is probably the most fomous case of this
of course it turned out she was doping all along and ended up in jail for perjury and cheque fraud

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

The B sample is being not yet tested

B sample test is not required unless the athlete promptly requests it.

2.1.2 Sufficient proof of an anti-doping rule violation under Article 2.1 is established by either of the following: presence of a Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers in the Athlete’s A Sample where the Athlete waives analysis of the B Sample and the B Sample is not analyzed; or, where the Athlete’s B Sample is analyzed and the analysis of the Athlete’s B Sample confirms the presence of the Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers found in the Athlete’s A Sample.

The B sample may also be tested if WADA or the anti doping authority requests it even if the athlete does not, and of course it acts as a backup if the A sample cannot be reliably tested for valid reasons.

 

[thehog]

B sample test is not required unless the athlete promptly requests it.



The B sample may also be tested if WADA or the anti doping authority requests it even if the athlete does not, and of course it acts as a backup if the A sample cannot be reliably tested for valid reasons.

The key is to wait till the final day then request you want to bear witness to its opening and testing.

State you're out of the country but will be available next month.

What you want is to get some form of tampering or chain of cusody issues going on.

Delaying its testing is key. Plenty of time of the red dust to breakdown the synethic EPO in the jar.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

The key is to wait till the final day then request you want to bear witness to its opening and testing.

State you're out of the country but will be available next month.

What you want is to get some form of tampering or chain of cusody issues going on.

Delaying its testing is key. Plenty of time of the red dust to breakdown the synethic EPO in the jar.

The way I read the WADA code is if the the B Sample is to be tested, then it is to happen within seven days of the adverse finding being notified, hence you have to respond pretty well within a few days and if the athlete or athlete's nominated representative doesn't attend the sample opening by the date set down by the review or a reasonable alternative to meet the seven day requirement for testing of the B Sample, then the B sample can be tested in their absence.

From the WADA laboratory standards document:

5.2.4.3.2 “B” Sample Confirmation

5.2.4.3.2.1 The “B” Sample analysis should occur as soon as possible and should take place no later than seven (7) working days starting the first working day following notification of an “A” Sample Adverse Analytical Finding by the Laboratory, unless the Laboratory is informed that the Athlete has waived his/her right to the “B” confirmation analysis and accepts the findings of the “A” confirmation analysis.

5.2.4.3.2.6 The Athlete and/or his/her representative, a representative of the entity responsible for Sample collection or results management, a representative of the National Olympic Committee, National Sport Federation, International Federation, and a translator shall be authorized to attend the “B” confirmation.

If the Athlete declines to be present or the Athlete’s representative does not respond to the invitation or if the Athlete or the Athlete’s representative continuously claim not to be available on the date of the opening, despite reasonable attempts by the Laboratory to accommodate their dates, the Testing Authority or the Laboratory shall proceed regardless and appoint an independent witness to verify that the “B” Sample container shows no signs of Tampering and that the identifying numbers match that on the collection documentation.

At a minimum, the Laboratory Director or representative and the Athlete or his/her representative or the independent witness shall sign Laboratory documentation attesting to the above.

The Laboratory Director may limit the number of individuals in Controlled Zones of the Laboratory based on safety or security considerations. The Laboratory Director may remove, or have removed by proper authority, any Athlete or representative(s) interfering with the testing process. Any behavior resulting in removal shall be reported to the Testing Authority and may be considered an anti–doping rule violation in accordance with Article 2.5 of the Code, “Tampering, or Attempting to tamper, with any part of Doping Control”.

 

[frenchfry]

The B sample is being not yet tested brings up many questions for me. Why even have a B sample when your A sample test positive and then you get sacked and everyone hates you. OK,, six months later some do return to the pros as a born again anti doper...

If I was found with a pound of crack by the police I would still be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

What happens now if his B sample is OK??
I do not live under a rock and I have a very good idea and understanding that his B sample will be a big positive but what if??

If you had already been convicted twice for dealing crack cocaine, then you are found in possession of a pound of crack cocaine - well, you get the picture.

Di Luca is hoping that the pound of crack cocaine he was found with miraculously transforms into a pound of cotton candy.

 

[DirtyWorks]

If I was found with a pound of crack by the police I would still be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Do not apply criminal law to sports administration. It doesn't work like that. Remember that in Olympic sports all the rules enforcement is done by Non-Governmental Organizations. (NGO's) There's no criminal/judicial anything involved, unless some other criminal laws, with real penalties, were broken.

Also note the testing system is *heavily* biased to suppressing false positives. So much so, the higher range of "suspicious" is actually a positive for some tests. False positives are a real problem in all kinds of medical testing including anti-doping. So, there's room for dopers to get away if circumstances work out right. IMHO, it is necessary. Not pleasant, but necessary.

 

[Michele]

A friend of mine made me notice that Vini Fantini's doctor has an interesting CV.

 

[del1962]

A friend of mine made me notice that Vini Fantini's doctor has an interesting CV.

The secretary of the Italian Association of Cycling Doctors, http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1169281&postcount=16

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Life ban for the Killer

Life ban for the Killer

Spanish report here
http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=67755

google translated:

The National Anti-Doping Tribunal (TNA) of the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) has decided to suspend for life Danilo di Luca for his positive test for EPO before the Tour of Italy and for being a repeat offender, with effect from May 24, 2013 and cancellation of all competitive results achieved after control April 29. He has also been sentenced to a financial penalty of 35,000 euros.

Edit: pic from Washington post:

 

[thehog]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...9bdcb6-5dc8-11e3-8d24-31c016b976b2_story.html

In English here.

Thanks.

 

[hektoren]

Great facial features, though. Pretty boy pharma. Oh, how i love CONI!

 

[sniper]

in 2009 di luca apparently cooperated with coni, hence he only got 9 months back then.
have coni ever clarified what the cooperation consisted of?
did di luca name names back then?

 

[86TDFWinner]

LOL, Hilarious:

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/Features/content/313/7529/Dope-Quotes-of-The-Year.html


DOPE QUOTE OF THE YEAR: “In the late ’90s the peloton was a shooting gallery. Everybody was doping and nobody knew how to get out." 17-time TdF finisher, and former Paris-Roubaix winner, Stuart O'Grady in admitting that he doped in 1998.

BEST QUOTE THAT PROBABLY BEST REFUTES THE CHARGE THAT LANCE ARMSTRONG WAS BEHIND THE BIGGEST DOPING CONSPIRACY IN HISTORY: “Doping in West Germany became evident as soon as (the country) was formed in 1949. Although the West German government did not run its program top-down as in East Germany….they engaged in systematic doping.” New York Times, Aug. 9, 2013.

BEST TAKE-BACK: On July 4 the RadioShack Leopard team parted ways with Frank Schleck: “With the end of Fränk Schleck’s suspension approaching, Leopard and its partners have assessed the situation in view of a possible renewal of the collaboration with Fränk Schleck. Having finalized this assessment in a broad and objective way, Leopard has decided to not renew the collaboration between Fränk Schleck and the RadioShack Leopard Trek cycling team.” Less than a month later, Frank couldn’t have been happier to know that he was hired by Trek who took over ownership the team from Leopard.

BEST PASSING OF BLAME: Abraham Olano “I was always under control and custody of the team and the medical unit. I do not feel in the least guilty. I never had the sensation I was doing anything illegal.”

BEST CROCODILE TEARS #1: Shocked to find out that there was doping in the sport, long-time pro team sponsor Rabobank pulled their 2013 sponsorship (of the men's team)…followed soon thereafter with the news that two key Rabo riders of old (Michael Rasmussen and Michael Boogerd) admitted to their own doping addictions.

BEST CROCODILE TEARS #2: How about Eddy Merckx expressing his deep disappointment upon finding out that Lance was doping. Um, anyone recall the famous scene in the movie Casablanca when Claude Rains runs into Rick’s Café and tells Humphrey Bogart that he’s closing the place down exclaiming, “I am shocked, shocked to find out that gambling is going on in here!” Followed moments later by Peter Lorry approaching Rains with a handful of cash, “Your winnings sir.”

BEST TRY-OUT AS A FALL-GUY: 2007 Giro d'Italia winner Danilo Di Luca came up with a positive at this year's edition and was promptly ousted and eventually banned for life. “It’s certainly not a great thing, I feel like I’m paying for everyone.” Paying for everyone?! Let's not forget that Di Luca's 2007 Giro win was also under suspicion and he had previously served two other EPO bans prior to receiving the lifetime sanction.

LOCALLY SPEAKING: A bunch of old-guy Masters class riders turn up positive. Hard to imagine how the ego is motivating 50+ year old riders to start using illegal substances. Well, then again, maybe it's not so hard. Talk about empty lives.

 

[proffate]

there were a "bunch" of masters busted? I only heard about 1 or 2 in the last year. RBA is in socal, are there more busts that haven't been made public yet?