Did they try too hard to make this Giro special?

[El Pistolero]

It was a difficult descent. Nothing crazy, but relatively difficult and technical. And yet, the crash happened in an easy section of the descent, and there wasn't a big peloton, only 3 or 4 guys.

Yes, difficult descents increase the chances of a crash, but accidents are inherent to racing. The descent was well within acceptable security margins.

Still doesn't change the fact that the Giro course is overdoing it.

As you say, this crash was on a relatively easy part(but trust me, the descend was not easy as some say here). If crashes can already happen on easy parts than it gets even more dangerous on hard and technical descends. Sorry, just don't buy the crap that the Giro course is ok because the crash was on a relatively easy part. Already thought the Giro was overdoing it before this crash happened and I still think the same.

 

[VeloCity]

When the pros themselves, like Contador, are saying that the route is scary - and not from a competitive perspective, but that he actually fears for his safety - then don't you think that perhaps things might be getting a bit out of hand? They're the ones who have to ride it, and I'll pay a bit more attention to their concerns than to forum posters sitting in their comfy chairs proclaiming hey c'mon, it's not dangerous.

Actually, I don't recall ever hearing a rider say that he was afraid of a route - it was tough, yes, it was going to be hard, yes, but never actually express fear.

 

[hrotha]

Still doesn't change the fact that the Giro course is overdoing it.

As you say, this crash was on a relatively easy part(but trust me, the descend was not easy as some say here). If crashes can already happen on easy parts than it gets even more dangerous on hard and technical descends. Sorry, just don't buy the crap that the Giro course is ok because the crash was on a relatively easy part. Already thought the Giro was overdoing it before this crash happened and I still think the same.

That isn't a "fact", that's why we're having this discussion. I honestly don't see how the descent was particularly difficult and dangerous. Crostis might be a different matter altogether, but many people (like VeloCity above) are taking Contador's statements about Crosis as if they applied to the whole Giro course. They don't.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The other fact is, in difficult situations, riders are less inclined to lapse in concentration and become more cautious.

Ok, let's coat the Crostis in petrol. And release rabid hounds. And orcs. Definitely orcs. Bet the riders will be paying attention then.

 

[VeloCity]

That isn't a "fact", that's why we're having this discussion. I honestly don't see how the descent was particularly difficult and dangerous. Crostis might be a different matter altogether, but many people (like VeloCity above) are taking Contador's statements about Crosis as if they applied to the whole Giro course. They don't.

Never said that they do. But when a rider expresses fear about any part of a course, then I think it's time for organizers to be held accountable for the routes that they are choosing. It's a bike race, there's enough risk every day, they shouldn't be in fear for their lives and safety before they even start racing.

 

[Benotti69]

When the pros themselves, like Contador, are saying that the route is scary - and not from a competitive perspective, but that he actually fears for his safety - then don't you think that perhaps things might be getting a bit out of hand? They're the ones who have to ride it, and I'll pay a bit more attention to their concerns than to forum posters sitting in their comfy chairs proclaiming hey c'mon, it's not dangerous.

Actually, I don't recall ever hearing a rider say that he was afraid of a route - it was tough, yes, it was going to be hard, yes, but never actually express fear.

If Contador is scared he shouldn't ride it. Simple.

Davide Cassani said he has never been scared on a bike. He said the riders are not scared and if they were they shouldn't be there. If you are scared you are a danger to yourself and others around you.

 

[hrotha]

Ok, let's coat the Crostis in petrol. And release rabid hounds. And orcs. Definitely orcs. Bet the riders will be paying attention then.

Joking aside, there's definitely merit to what Mellow Velo said. Many ex-pros talk about how some of the worst crashes happen when the peloton is chillin', going at relatively low speed and getting a bit too relaxed.

 

[Eshnar]

Contador expressed fear about a descent where the riders will go one by one, probly at slow speed since it's difficult, and where will be placed protections (which weren't there the day Contador went). It's true that the Giro route it's more dangerous than other routes, but it's always been like that. Last year they did without any problems the descent of Gavia that is more dangerous than Crostis. In 2008 they did Vivione, and Di Luca attacked on that very descent. The Giro has always cared about security (protections, medical teams, also mountain rescue after Horrilio) more than all the other tours combined.

 

[thirteen]

Joking aside, there's definitely merit to what Mellow Velo said. Many ex-pros talk about how some of the worst crashes happen when the peloton is chillin', going at relatively low speed and getting a bit too relaxed.

i agree completely with this... your defenses are down.

 

[la.margna]

no offense, forgive me, but not again such bull****. this is professional sports. like any activity it involves certain risks. speeding down with a bicylce at 100km/h involves certain risks, this is part of the game. unfortunately and sadly there have been and there will be ugly and sometimes deadly accidents. people have the free will. if they don't wanna take the risks, they shall play pool billard or chess and not opt for road racing. but accidents often happen in instances that are underestimated and not particularly dangerous. you can have a deadly crash on a large and flat sprint stage it does not need a dangerous descent. you can have a fan that crosses the road to shoot a pic (1999 alpe d'huez) or a dog... this is real life. sorry.

 

[rhubroma]

No, unfortunately, this was just one of the many job risks of the profession.

Otherwise cycling should take place only on flat and straight roads in the middle of the desert. Oh, but wait, there are the sprints.

The fact is that descents in Italy can be particularly twisty, especially in that part of the country. It's just part of the terrain. I did a granfondo years back that began precisely at Chiavari. We were several hundred strong and the roads were the same, and even in some cases much more technical than those which the Giro passed over yesterday. Yet nobody died and we raced flat out. I have done many other races in Lombardy, Abruzzo, Lazio, Umbria, Tuscany, Campania and its the same thing.

His, sadly, was simply a terrible and fatal stroke of bad luck. Aparantly he looked back a split second to gauge his progress with respect to those behind and then took the curve too wide as a horrible result. The rest is written.

The pros are just that, pros. They ride decents like that one dozens of times in their careers, not considering even those done in training, and others much, much worse. They are experts at such things. If only this demonstrated how truly dangerous cycling is, and what risks the riders take upon themselves just to do their jobs all the time.

This point is of no consequence because has no bearing on what took place.

 

[El Pistolero]

That isn't a "fact", that's why we're having this discussion. I honestly don't see how the descent was particularly difficult and dangerous. Crostis might be a different matter altogether, but many people (like VeloCity above) are taking Contador's statements about Crosis as if they applied to the whole Giro course. They don't.

Have you taken a look at the last week of this Giro? It's ridiculous.

I don't know about you, but I can enjoy hilly stages just as much- if not a lot more- than high mountain stages. Having 5 cols of HC in one stage doesn't make Zomegnan a genius. Emperor Nero would be a more fitting comparison.

I'm not saying this because of this crash, that could happen at any race(although I think it was a bit too early to have a stage like this in the Giro, better doing these long descend stages when less people are in it for the victory), but still the Giro is a bit too much this year.

 

[UpTheRoad]

The Sporza guys were talking the entire time(BEFORE the crash) how difficult this descend was and that they feared what would happen if a big peloton would go down these descends.

...<snip>...

I'm all for descends, but dangerous descends so early in the race are MORE dangerous. Thank god the peloton will be tired and there won't be as many cyclists anymore when the Zoncolan stage comes up.

The big peloton didn't cause and barely contributed to the crash (weighing his option to wait for the group behind to catch up). Reports are that he was basically chasing solo and looked back when the accident happened.

Not sure how a bunch pack descending the pass factors into this exactly. He was not in a pack when the accident occurred.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Joking aside, there's definitely merit to what Mellow Velo said. Many ex-pros talk about how some of the worst crashes happen when the peloton is chillin', going at relatively low speed and getting a bit too relaxed.

I don't think those are the "worst" crashes. I agree that they're more frequent and often quite bloody, but the worst crashes I've seen in terms of injuries have been on descents.

Casartelli, Weylandt, Kivilev, Voigt, Beloki, Horrillo.

 

[rhubroma]

Have you taken a look at the last week of this Giro? It's ridiculous.

I don't know about you, but I can enjoy hilly stages just as much- if not a lot more- than high mountain stages. Having 5 cols of HC in one stage doesn't make Zomegnan a genius. Emperor Nero would be a more fitting comparison.

I'm not saying this because of this crash, that could happen at any race(although I think it was a bit too early to have a stage like this in the Giro, better doing these long descend stages when less people are in it for the victory), but still the Giro is a bit too much this year.

Now, now lets not exaggerate in bringing up Nero.

There have always been treacherous descents in Italian bike races.

I wonder more about the 200+ fields. Thirty, fourty years ago they were just over 100. This, more than the terrain, seems risky.

 

[hrotha]

Have you taken a look at the last week of this Giro? It's ridiculous.

I don't know about you, but I can enjoy hilly stages just as much- if not a lot more- than high mountain stages. Having 5 cols of HC in one stage doesn't make Zomegnan a genius. Emperor Nero would be a more fitting comparison.

I'm not saying this because of this crash, that could happen at any race(although I think it was a bit too early to have a stage like this in the Giro, better doing these long descend stages when less people are in it for the victory), but still the Giro is a bit too much this year.

Wait, what is this about? Is it about dangerous descents, or about too physically demanding courses?

 

[Mellow Velo]

I don't think those are the "worst" crashes. I agree that they're more frequent and often quite bloody, but the worst crashes I've seen in terms of injuries have been on descents.

Casartelli, Weylandt, Kivilev, Voigt, Beloki, Horrillo.

Kivilev wasn't on a descent. It happened when the peloton "compressed", in St. Chamond town, I believe.

 

[El Pistolero]

Wait, what is this about? Is it about dangerous descents, or about too physically demanding courses?

About a dangerous course thus both.

I don't think this descend was too dangerous, but a bit early in the Giro to have a stage like that IMO(although it wouldn't have changed anything in this situation)

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Having 5 cols of HC in one stage doesn't make Zomegnan a genius.

More like 3 HC and 2 1st category climbs, by TdF standards. Or 4 HC and one 1st category climb at the very most. (The final climb isn't that long, so I wouldn't rate it HC, but that's debatable, I guess.)

Just because Wuyts said so, doesn't make it so.

 

[benpounder]

I don't know about you, but I can enjoy hilly stages just as much- if not a lot more- than high mountain stages. Having 5 cols of HC in one stage doesn't make Zomegnan a genius. Emperor Nero would be a more fitting comparison.

I dont think the Giro uses Hors Categorie. Furthermore, while stage 15 is undoubtedly a brute, it has four cat.1's and one cat.2, not five HC's. In and of itself, it is not unusual. No, what makes if difficult is that it is preceded by Crostis/Zoncolan (14) and Grossglockner (13).

However, if you look at the three stages before 13, not only are they flat (11 is lumpy with four cat.4's), but relatively short as well: 10@159km, 11@144km, and 12@184. and while Zoncolon and Val di Fassa are over 210km, Grossglockner is only 167km.

 

[El Pistolero]

More like 3 HC and 2 1st category climbs, by TdF standards. Or 4 HC and one 1st category climb at the very most. (The final climb isn't that long, so I wouldn't rate it HC, but that's debatable, I guess.)

Just because Wuyts said so, doesn't make it so.

At the Tour, they'd all be rated HC.

 

[Viskovitz]

Here's a pic:

It's the Crostis? Giau? Bocco? Marmolada? Any other road a "crazy" italian wants o put in a race to play with the riders life?

No, it's the ****ing Aubisque road. And nobody says anything about it and that enormous precipice.

BTW, at the Tour, only 3 climbs would be HC: Piancavallo, Giau and Marmolada. Maybe even only two with Piancavallo or Giau being 1st cat.

 

[michaeld]

Remember when Erik Dekker crash landed on his face? Wasn't that on a straight road either? In the Valkenburg stage 2006?

Kivilev: Flat, riding straight, at about 35km/h. Hands in the back pockets.

 

[VeloCity]

Here's a pic:

It's the Crostis? Giau? Bocco? Marmolada? Any other road a "crazy" italian wants o put in a race to play with the riders life?

No, it's the ****ing Aubisque road. And nobody says anything about it and that enormous precipice.

It's a smooth, wide, paved road, without sharp turns, with a guardrail. Compare it to the Crostis.

Everyone understands that there are inherent risks in cycling. The point that some of us are raising is, at what point do those risks become excessive?

In 2009, Horrillo was almost killed in a crash at the Giro. In 2009, riders protested what they felt were poor safety conditions at the Giro. In 2011, a rider is killed in a crash at the Giro, and there is concern and controversy over the safety of a particular descent upcoming. Is the Giro overdoing it and becoming excessively risky? I think that's all that some people are wondering.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

At the Tour, they'd all be rated HC.

Nah, Col de la Forclaz (always 1st category) is tougher than the Cibiana, for example.

Wuyts is nothing but a demagogue. I wish people would ignore him and think for themselves.