Doping In Athletics

[The Hitch]

Shame that Kenenisa, who's first ever marathon was 2.05.05 mysteriously didn't do the olympics. On that point, when Haile was the WR in 2008 he also didn't do the olympics. A bit strange.

This btw is hillarious: http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm

The time that was the wr less than 10 years ago, is now not even in the top 40. In fact 98 of the top 100 times in history came in the last 10 years.

 

[The Hitch]

Yes, but wasn't Rio his second marathon ever?

I refer you to the curious case of Ian Thompson. ranked 90th in The U.K at 5k and just considered to be a very good club runner he ran 2:12:40 in his first marathon, apparently his first race over 10 miles, then improved this to 2:09:12 in his second marathon in 1974. Steve Jones, another British runner ran what is still a British record in his third marathon 2:07:13 and his first 2 marathons were both under 2:09. Neither Thompson, Jones Spedding or any of the other half dozen British Athletes who've gone under 2:10 (Mo Excepted) were in the same class as Rupp at 5k or 10k. Let's see what Rupp can do in a big city marathon before we can draw any conclusions.

Pete

Well his relationship with one Alberto Salazar help us draw pretty big conclusions. But I don't get the focus on times for an olympic marathon race. Its not like it was some small city marathon where Rupp beat a bunch of amateurs and times are the only way to measure him relative to his rivals.
On the contrary, it was the olympic marathon. The biggest marathon in the world and a field of the highest quality runners. His time doesn't matter because we don't need it to compare him. We can already compare him. He beat the others.

 

[buckle]

Shame that Kenenisa, who's first ever marathon was 2.05.05 mysteriously didn't do the olympics. On that point, when Haile was the WR in 2008 he also didn't do the olympics. A bit strange.

This btw is hillarious: http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm

The time that was the wr less than 10 years ago, is now not even in the top 40. In fact 98 of the top 100 times in history came in the last 10 years.

I suspect Ron Hill's 2:10 in the 1970 Boston Marathon is the limit of human endeavour. What he couldn't do is reliably reproduce this outlier performance every time so Frank Shorter (plausibly) won gold in 1972 with 2:12.

Shorter's 2:11 (4 years later) won him silver but was beaten by a doped East German running Hill's outlier time of 2:10. From that moment statistics have become problematic.

Of interest in the latter race is a doped Viren performance (5th in 2:13). It was greeted with astonishment from Hill (commentating in a BBC studio) who believed that Viren couldn't possibly finish the race having completed his second 5k/10k double days before.

Arguably 2:10 down to 2:02 has become this event's dope zone.

 

[BullsFan22]

Shame that Kenenisa, who's first ever marathon was 2.05.05 mysteriously didn't do the olympics. On that point, when Haile was the WR in 2008 he also didn't do the olympics. A bit strange.

This btw is hillarious: http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm

The time that was the wr less than 10 years ago, is now not even in the top 40. In fact 98 of the top 100 times in history came in the last 10 years.

I suspect Ron Hill's 2:10 in the 1970 Boston Marathon is the limit of human endeavour. What he couldn't do is reliably reproduce this outlier performance every time so Frank Shorter (plausibly) won gold in 1972 with 2:12.

Shorter's 2:11 (4 years later) won him silver but was beaten by a doped East German running Hill's outlier time of 2:10. From that moment statistics have become problematic.

Of interest in the latter race is a doped Viren performance (5th in 2:13). It was greeted with astonishment from Hill (commentating in a BBC studio) who believed that Viren couldn't possibly finish the race having completed his second 5k/10k double days before.

Arguably 2:10 down to 2:02 has become this event's dope zone.

Which is exactly why Rupp's performance in the marathon is suspect. Running a 10000m not long before the marathon, not to mention his rather dubious collaboration with Mo and Salazar and probably someone else that we may not know about.

 

[buckle]

Shame that Kenenisa, who's first ever marathon was 2.05.05 mysteriously didn't do the olympics. On that point, when Haile was the WR in 2008 he also didn't do the olympics. A bit strange.

This btw is hillarious: http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm

The time that was the wr less than 10 years ago, is now not even in the top 40. In fact 98 of the top 100 times in history came in the last 10 years.

I suspect Ron Hill's 2:10 in the 1970 Boston Marathon is the limit of human endeavour. What he couldn't do is reliably reproduce this outlier performance every time so Frank Shorter (plausibly) won gold in 1972 with 2:12.

Shorter's 2:11 (4 years later) won him silver but was beaten by a doped East German running Hill's outlier time of 2:10. From that moment statistics have become problematic.

Of interest in the latter race is a doped Viren performance (5th in 2:13). It was greeted with astonishment from Hill (commentating in a BBC studio) who believed that Viren couldn't possibly finish the race having completed his second 5k/10k double days before.

Arguably 2:10 down to 2:02 has become this event's dope zone.

Which is exactly why Rupp's performance in the marathon is suspect. Running a 10000m not long before the marathon, not to mention his rather dubious collaboration with Mo and Salazar and probably someone else that we may not know about.

This was not unusual in years gone by. Zatopek actually achieved the treble in '52. Viren, as stated above, attempted it '76. It was an accepted convention to do the 10k then marathon for quite a few athletes.

 

[JetSet]

Shame that Kenenisa, who's first ever marathon was 2.05.05 mysteriously didn't do the olympics. On that point, when Haile was the WR in 2008 he also didn't do the olympics. A bit strange.

This btw is hillarious: http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm

The time that was the wr less than 10 years ago, is now not even in the top 40. In fact 98 of the top 100 times in history came in the last 10 years.

I suspect Ron Hill's 2:10 in the 1970 Boston Marathon is the limit of human endeavour. What he couldn't do is reliably reproduce this outlier performance every time so Frank Shorter (plausibly) won gold in 1972 with 2:12.

Shorter's 2:11 (4 years later) won him silver but was beaten by a doped East German running Hill's outlier time of 2:10. From that moment statistics have become problematic.

Of interest in the latter race is a doped Viren performance (5th in 2:13). It was greeted with astonishment from Hill (commentating in a BBC studio) who believed that Viren couldn't possibly finish the race having completed his second 5k/10k double days before.

Arguably 2:10 down to 2:02 has become this event's dope zone.

Which is exactly why Rupp's performance in the marathon is suspect. Running a 10000m not long before the marathon, not to mention his rather dubious collaboration with Mo and Salazar and probably someone else that we may not know about.

This was not unusual in years gone by. Zatopek actually achieved the treble in '52. Viren, as stated above, attempted it '76. It was an accepted convention to do the 10k then marathon for quite a few athletes.

Viren also did the 5k final and heat as well as the 10k final and heat, 30k of competition before the marathon. Also, the 5K final was the day before the marathon, so quite an amazing feat. He was of course blood doping as were all the Finnish runners at that time although it wasn't actually illegal back then. Viren also ran 8:21 in a 2 mile race just 3 days after the marathon!!

Pete

 

[buckle]

Shame that Kenenisa, who's first ever marathon was 2.05.05 mysteriously didn't do the olympics. On that point, when Haile was the WR in 2008 he also didn't do the olympics. A bit strange.

This btw is hillarious: http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm

The time that was the wr less than 10 years ago, is now not even in the top 40. In fact 98 of the top 100 times in history came in the last 10 years.

I suspect Ron Hill's 2:10 in the 1970 Boston Marathon is the limit of human endeavour. What he couldn't do is reliably reproduce this outlier performance every time so Frank Shorter (plausibly) won gold in 1972 with 2:12.

Shorter's 2:11 (4 years later) won him silver but was beaten by a doped East German running Hill's outlier time of 2:10. From that moment statistics have become problematic.

Of interest in the latter race is a doped Viren performance (5th in 2:13). It was greeted with astonishment from Hill (commentating in a BBC studio) who believed that Viren couldn't possibly finish the race having completed his second 5k/10k double days before.

Arguably 2:10 down to 2:02 has become this event's dope zone.

Which is exactly why Rupp's performance in the marathon is suspect. Running a 10000m not long before the marathon, not to mention his rather dubious collaboration with Mo and Salazar and probably someone else that we may not know about.

This was not unusual in years gone by. Zatopek actually achieved the treble in '52. Viren, as stated above, attempted it '76. It was an accepted convention to do the 10k then marathon for quite a few athletes.

Viren also did the 5k final and heat as well as the 10k final and heat, 30k of competition before the marathon. Also, the 5K final was the day before the marathon, so quite an amazing feat. He was of course blood doping as were all the Finnish runners at that time although it wasn't actually illegal back then. Viren also ran 8:21 in a 2 mile race just 3 days after the marathon!!

Pete

Well remembered! I'd forgotten that.

 

[D-Queued]

...

I suspect Ron Hill's 2:10 in the 1970 Boston Marathon is the limit of human endeavour. What he couldn't do is reliably reproduce this outlier performance every time so Frank Shorter (plausibly) won gold in 1972 with 2:12.

Shorter's 2:11 (4 years later) won him silver but was beaten by a doped East German running Hill's outlier time of 2:10. From that moment statistics have become problematic.

Of interest in the latter race is a doped Viren performance (5th in 2:13). It was greeted with astonishment from Hill (commentating in a BBC studio) who believed that Viren couldn't possibly finish the race having completed his second 5k/10k double days before.

Arguably 2:10 down to 2:02 has become this event's dope zone.

Hmmm.

Ok. So, about a 6% improvement since newfangled doping became available.

As a comparison, since the beginning of the EPO era, the record for 100m has dropped by 2.5% (~9.93ish to 9.58).

Guess that all makes sense.

Dave.

 

[Nellyspania]

Shame that Kenenisa, who's first ever marathon was 2.05.05 mysteriously didn't do the olympics. On that point, when Haile was the WR in 2008 he also didn't do the olympics. A bit strange.

This btw is hillarious: http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm

The time that was the wr less than 10 years ago, is now not even in the top 40. In fact 98 of the top 100 times in history came in the last 10 years.

I suspect Ron Hill's 2:10 in the 1970 Boston Marathon is the limit of human endeavour. What he couldn't do is reliably reproduce this outlier performance every time so Frank Shorter (plausibly) won gold in 1972 with 2:12.

Shorter's 2:11 (4 years later) won him silver but was beaten by a doped East German running Hill's outlier time of 2:10. From that moment statistics have become problematic.

Of interest in the latter race is a doped Viren performance (5th in 2:13). It was greeted with astonishment from Hill (commentating in a BBC studio) who believed that Viren couldn't possibly finish the race having completed his second 5k/10k double days before.

Arguably 2:10 down to 2:02 has become this event's dope zone.

I will agree that the lowering of the Marathon WR has much to do with doping but there is also the contributing factor of the huge publicity and prizes now available so we see many of the better East Africans dodge the track and go straight for the road.

I did see the latter half of the Olympic race and aside from Rupp's performance after having competed in the 10,000m the most suspicious was Kipchoge running everyone's legs off.

 

[buckle]

...

I suspect Ron Hill's 2:10 in the 1970 Boston Marathon is the limit of human endeavour. What he couldn't do is reliably reproduce this outlier performance every time so Frank Shorter (plausibly) won gold in 1972 with 2:12.

Shorter's 2:11 (4 years later) won him silver but was beaten by a doped East German running Hill's outlier time of 2:10. From that moment statistics have become problematic.

Of interest in the latter race is a doped Viren performance (5th in 2:13). It was greeted with astonishment from Hill (commentating in a BBC studio) who believed that Viren couldn't possibly finish the race having completed his second 5k/10k double days before.

Arguably 2:10 down to 2:02 has become this event's dope zone.

Hmmm.

Ok. So, about a 6% improvement since newfangled doping became available.

As a comparison, since the beginning of the EPO era, the record for 100m has dropped by 2.5% (~9.93ish to 9.58).

Guess that all makes sense.

Dave.

Hines and Hayes as the gold standard?

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

Reminder when Ruth Jebet should have broken the World Record in the Olympic 3,000 steeplechase final but slowed down in the home straight and just missed it?

She's absolutely smashed it at the Diamond League meeting today. Took 6 seconds out of it

Also Laura Muir broke the British 1,500 record again, beating Kipyegon to win

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/37206116

 

[Zypherov]

Poland's Anita Wlodarczyk breaks hammer world record
http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/37210904

I'm not saying that Anita Wlodarczyk is doping, but you never know. She has just broken her own world record which she set in Rio. She is the only woman in history to throw over 80 metres, a feat which she has achieved eleven times. Another genetic freak ?

 

[the delgados]

Re:

Poland's Anita Wlodarczyk breaks hammer world record
http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/37210904

I'm not saying that Anita Wlodarczyk is doping, but you never know. She has just broken her own world record which she set in Rio. She is the only woman in history to throw over 80 metres, a feat which she has achieved eleven times. Another genetic freak ?

I don't follow the hammer, but is it possible that Anita is the only person in the world who participates in the event?

 

[Archibald]

In paralympics??
btw, not using blades, so no "mechanical doping"...

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/olympic...gold-time-in-1500m-final-20160913-grezaw.html

 

[simoni]

In paralympics??
btw, not using blades, so no "mechanical doping"...

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/olympic...gold-time-in-1500m-final-20160913-grezaw.html

Not sure what you're hoping that quirk of results is hoping to tell us. There may well be doping going on in the Paralympics but this tells us nothing apart from the fact that the Olympic final, for tactical reasons, happened to be very slow.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Context matters. The first 800m of the olympic men's race was run at 2:16. That is literally high school pace. The women's world record is 3:50, so the visually impaired men in that race are not much faster than the top women in the world.

 

[Random Direction]

Here we go - is Shaun Barber doping or is this one of the best excuses in a while....

http://www.vancouversun.com/canadian+pole+vaulter+shawn+barber+tested+positive+cocaine+ingested/12257785/story.html

World champion pole vaulter Shawn Barber competed at the 2016 Rio Olympic Games despite testing positive for cocaine a month prior at the Canadian trials in Edmonton.

In a decision rendered Aug. 11 but released on Thursday, the Sport Dispute Resolution Centre of Canada ruled Barber inadvertently ingested the banned substance by kissing a woman he met through an ad posted in the “casual encounter” section of Craigslist.

The tryst occurred at an Edmonton hotel the night before Barber set a new record at the Canadian track and field championships and Rio selection trials at Foote Field.

“I didn’t know that kissing a girl could transmit coke,” Barber told reporters Thursday in a conference call. “I didn’t know that you might test positive after that.”

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Here we go - is Shaun Barber doping or is this one of the best excuses in a while....

http://www.vancouversun.com/canadian+pole+vaulter+shawn+barber+tested+positive+cocaine+ingested/12257785/story.html

World champion pole vaulter Shawn Barber competed at the 2016 Rio Olympic Games despite testing positive for cocaine a month prior at the Canadian trials in Edmonton.

In a decision rendered Aug. 11 but released on Thursday, the Sport Dispute Resolution Centre of Canada ruled Barber inadvertently ingested the banned substance by kissing a woman he met through an ad posted in the “casual encounter” section of Craigslist.

The tryst occurred at an Edmonton hotel the night before Barber set a new record at the Canadian track and field championships and Rio selection trials at Foote Field.

“I didn’t know that kissing a girl could transmit coke,” Barber told reporters Thursday in a conference call. “I didn’t know that you might test positive after that.”

Richard Gasquet 2.0???

 

[Random Direction]

Why he would use Craigslist instead of Tinder, I do not know. Yes, Gasquet 2.0.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Re: Re:

Here we go - is Shaun Barber doping or is this one of the best excuses in a while....

http://www.vancouversun.com/canadian+pole+vaulter+shawn+barber+tested+positive+cocaine+ingested/12257785/story.html

World champion pole vaulter Shawn Barber competed at the 2016 Rio Olympic Games despite testing positive for cocaine a month prior at the Canadian trials in Edmonton.

In a decision rendered Aug. 11 but released on Thursday, the Sport Dispute Resolution Centre of Canada ruled Barber inadvertently ingested the banned substance by kissing a woman he met through an ad posted in the “casual encounter” section of Craigslist.

The tryst occurred at an Edmonton hotel the night before Barber set a new record at the Canadian track and field championships and Rio selection trials at Foote Field.

“I didn’t know that kissing a girl could transmit coke,” Barber told reporters Thursday in a conference call. “I didn’t know that you might test positive after that.”

Richard Gasquet 2.0???

This is downright embarassing for all Canadians, that our sport resolution centre could make such a ludicrous finding. The Canadian media is full of stories of doctors who say tranmission by kissing is not impossible but virtually improbable. The only saving grace is he is really an American born in Canada but moved to the US at age 10 and grew up in Texas. Ted Cruz could clarify his status (born in Calgary). Most Canadians never heard of him until the world championships!

 

[MountTiede]

In line with IOC policy to store doping samples for 10 years to allow for them to be reanalysed when improved methods become available, the IOC has announced it has recorded 98 positive cases to date in re-tests of around 1,000 samples from Beijing 2008 and London 2012, giving a positive retest hit rate of nearly 10%.

Russian high jumper Anna Chicherova has been stripped of her bronze medal from the 2008 Beijing Olympics for doping(anabolic steroids), but gets to keep the gold medals she won in London and at the 2011 World Championships because the 2 year ban she received for the Beijing doping offence expired in 2010.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Here we go - is Shaun Barber doping or is this one of the best excuses in a while....

http://www.vancouversun.com/canadian+pole+vaulter+shawn+barber+tested+positive+cocaine+ingested/12257785/story.html

World champion pole vaulter Shawn Barber competed at the 2016 Rio Olympic Games despite testing positive for cocaine a month prior at the Canadian trials in Edmonton.

In a decision rendered Aug. 11 but released on Thursday, the Sport Dispute Resolution Centre of Canada ruled Barber inadvertently ingested the banned substance by kissing a woman he met through an ad posted in the “casual encounter” section of Craigslist.

The tryst occurred at an Edmonton hotel the night before Barber set a new record at the Canadian track and field championships and Rio selection trials at Foote Field.

“I didn’t know that kissing a girl could transmit coke,” Barber told reporters Thursday in a conference call. “I didn’t know that you might test positive after that.”

Richard Gasquet 2.0???

This is downright embarassing for all Canadians, that our sport resolution centre could make such a ludicrous finding. The Canadian media is full of stories of doctors who say tranmission by kissing is not impossible but virtually improbable. The only saving grace is he is really an American born in Canada but moved to the US at age 10 and grew up in Texas. Ted Cruz could clarify his status (born in Calgary). Most Canadians never heard of him until the world championships!

You probably know a lot more about Canadian athletes than I do, so from my perspective, after reading the story, it just seems so fishy to me.

 

[L'arriviste]

Organisers of the Brussels Marathon have just learned that the winner of this year's edition, held last May, had in fact been suspended since 2011.

Najim El Qady appeared to have returned to competition prematurely while still serving his ban for bio-passport irregularities. The Moroccan was disqualified and he has since been suspended for a further two years.

http://www.lalibre.be/regions/bruxelles/le-vainqueur-des-20-km-de-bruxelles-officiellement-disqualifie-57fd2151cd701eed8fcba308 (FR)

 

[Tienus]

http://www.sub2hrs.com/news-events/record-run-in-rio-just-the-start-for-ayana/
After going full *** with Ayana in RIo Hermens and Pitsiladis are now going for a sub 2hr marathon runner. The best thing about this is that they seem to want to do it clean. At least thats what I assume when I look at the list of partners, its an interesting list so far:
http://www.sub2hrs.com/our-partners/
-The Dutch anti doping agency
-South African anti doping agency
-Sportwise and uni of Brighton / Nick Webborn:
Nick also has wide experience in anti-doping and has been a member of the International Paralympic Committee's anti-doping subcommittee and is a chair of the UK Sport therapeutic use exemption committee.
-Pitsiladis himself has been funded by WADA for anti doping research http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13151197._Perfect__anti_doping_test_in_sight/

There are more interesting partners on the list espescially wrt sports medicine.

 

[sniper]

Interesting indeed. They surely want to make it SEEM like they want to do it clean.
All those institutes can be shown to have covered up doping at some point.
They are antidopingscandal rather than antidoping.
I remember Jeukendrup also being involved in the sub2hr thing. Hes very antidoping too. Not.