Doping In Athletics

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

My understanding is Sakho won his case because of scientific reasons which is in line with what you posted. To take a step back, it is the labaratory which makes a first call as to whether it's a positive test - So then the testing agency which has authority makes the next call - Seems like the authorities acted in haste - Saddest thing is Sakho missed the World Cup and Champion's League, and has been in footballing limbo since.

In which case I would disagree with the reasons, as does WADA. Again, I'd point out that this was a decision taken by UEFA, which I would guess is a similar process that originally cleared Contador of doping after his clenbuterol. The accused presents facts and a panel decides, not representation is made from the other side. It's a massively flawed system.

I think you are implying this was the laboratory or testing authority that decided it was performance enhancing? That's not the case. The laboratory tests the samples and reports finding the banned substance. They make no call on its effects, performance enhancing or otherwise. Sakho didn't claim the substance wasn't in his system so the lab was correct.The testing authority then decides what to do and in this case they had no choice but to notify him and proceed with a suspension, that's the way it should work.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

My understanding is Sakho won his case because of scientific reasons which is in line with what you posted. To take a step back, it is the labaratory which makes a first call as to whether it's a positive test - So then the testing agency which has authority makes the next call - Seems like the authorities acted in haste - Saddest thing is Sakho missed the World Cup and Champion's League, and has been in footballing limbo since.

In which case I would disagree with the reasons, as does WADA. Again, I'd point out that this was a decision taken by UEFA, which I would guess is a similar process that originally cleared Contador of doping after his clenbuterol. The accused presents facts and a panel decides, not representation is made from the other side. It's a massively flawed system.

I think you are implying this was the laboratory or testing authority that decided it was performance enhancing? That's not the case. The laboratory tests the samples and reports finding the banned substance. They make no call on its effects, performance enhancing or otherwise. Sakho didn't claim the substance wasn't in his system so the lab was correct.The testing authority then decides what to do and in this case they had no choice but to notify him and proceed with a suspension, that's the way it should work.

Your post makes perfect sense - What I'm saying is the laboratory passes on the results to the testing agency. You assume they would notify the testing agency of a possible Anti- Doping violation - It's up to the testing agency who are a client of UEFA to make a recommendation to UEFA.

 

[noddy69]

Re: Re:

How ignorant can you be, much like any regular idiot. Race fitness needs a few races (unless on high octane).

The only reason she blew any sort of lid on it was because A.) she thought she was going to get her doping charge cleared and B.) she would eventually get paid. She is no better than the rest of them.

Since she didn't get either, she started talking. Ad hominem attacks aside, you don't need to lecture me on gaining race fitness. I am well aware that one needs optimal training and it takes time to gain fitness, doping or not.

I do wonder about calling anyone out for being no better than a doper when you tell all. I've done the soul searching on this one and can say that in(insert athlete/cyclists name) position the facts are in all probability I would have doped too. Everyone on here would apart from a small percentage.
What we do know is that after you are caught you can either own up- keep Omerta or keep up the lies. I would surmise that many keep Omerta and deserve scorn,that some are of the Armstrong type and psychopathic so will keep up the lies for gain muddied with truths. The rest would, you can hope, tell the truth. Every sports person who doped cant be a bad person, they just do it to succeed, and its wrong and it doesnt give much hope to parents thats the case- but its true.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/38825752
Russia have been stripped of their 4x400m relay silver from London 2012 after sprinter Antonina Krivoshapka tested positive for steroid turinabol.

The ruling is likely to see Jamaica and Ukraine promoted to silver and bronze respectively behind the United States.

Krivoshapka, 29, has not competed since 2013, the same year she won bronze at the World Championships in Moscow.

Russian discus thrower Vera Ganeeva and Turkish boxer Adem Kilicci have also tested positive in a review of samples.
(The US beat a doped Russian relay team - see, clean athletes can win! )

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/38825752
Russia have been stripped of their 4x400m relay silver from London 2012 after sprinter Antonina Krivoshapka tested positive for steroid turinabol.

The ruling is likely to see Jamaica and Ukraine promoted to silver and bronze respectively behind the United States.

Krivoshapka, 29, has not competed since 2013, the same year she won bronze at the World Championships in Moscow.

Russian discus thrower Vera Ganeeva and Turkish boxer Adem Kilicci have also tested positive in a review of samples.
(The US beat a doped Russian relay team - see, clean athletes can win! )

The Americans must not be tested and/or the Russians are using terrible methods. No way the American sprinters are clean. Though I get your sarcasm.

 

[mike75]

Not saying the US aren't doping, but 400 meters is their event. The US have any extremely long and decorated history in all the 400m events. I think it is conceivable they could beat a doped nation in the relay considering the large talent gap at that distance.

 

[noddy69]

Re:

Not saying the US aren't doping, but 400 meters is their event. The US have any extremely long and decorated history in all the 400m events. I think it is conceivable they could beat a doped nation in the relay considering the large talent gap at that distance.

I'm not saying the US aren't doping either ....agree wholeheartedly

 

[veganrob]

Another doper from USA getting a slap on the wrist. Amazing how these elite athletes overcame life threatening illnesses. What a joke.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/olympic-gold-medalist-serves-suspension/ar-AAmIoU1?li=BBnb7Kz

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Another doper from USA getting a slap on the wrist. Amazing how these elite athletes overcame life threatening illnesses. What a joke.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/olympic-gold-medalist-serves-suspension/ar-AAmIoU1?li=BBnb7Kz

Three months for doping. Anybody else and it would have been two years. Everything Fancy Bears leaked has been proven correct. Say you are sick, get an exemption/TUE, compete. If you get caught, just repeat step 1.

https://www.sott.net/article/339759-Der-Spiegel-report-American-Olympians-doping-with-anti-allergy-steroids-Most-everyone-cheats-in-some-form-or-another

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/sports-doping-and-the-difficult-fight-to-prevent-it-a-1129918.html

 

[BullsFan22]

Haile Gebrselassie:

https://www.rt.com/sport/376605-haile-gebrselassie-ethiopian-athletics-federation/


Former long jump great on Lord Coe: "Coe himself doped, and nothing happened..."

https://russian.rt.com/sport/article/356867-kou-doping-iaaf

 

[yaco]

Previously posted that the USA is the champion of TUE's and token suspensions, as well as sweeping things under the carpet - You'llnever get a handle on doping when key agencies such as USADA are soft on some athletes.

 

[yaco]

Previously posted that the USA is the champion of TUE's and token suspensions, as well as sweeping things under the carpet - You'llnever get a handle on doping when key agencies such as USADA are soft on some athletes.

 

[veganrob]

Re:

Previously posted that the USA is the champion of TUE's and token suspensions, as well as sweeping things under the carpet - You'llnever get a handle on doping when key agencies such as USADA are soft on some athletes.

They've been doing it for 30+ years so are pretty good at it. Most of the people here still think US athletes are squeeky clean.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Previously posted that the USA is the champion of TUE's and token suspensions, as well as sweeping things under the carpet - You'llnever get a handle on doping when key agencies such as USADA are soft on some athletes.

They've been doing it for 30+ years so are pretty good at it. Most of the people here still think US athletes are squeeky clean.

And ol' Travis Tygart drawing crowds, telling people how important it is to have 'clean sport.'

http://www.fis-ski.com/news-multimedia/news/article=clean-sport-initiatives-park-city-and-pyeongchang.html


It's as easy as one two three. Say you are sick, sign up for a TUE, get the necessary drugs, and off you go. What a joke. Tygart was very angry when the leaks came out about how easy it is to use and abuse the TUE system and how so many US athletes in Olympic sanctioned sports do this. The guy is a hypocrite. Says he is against doping, but in reality, he has done hardly anything about it

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/38931007
London 2012 gold medallist Mariya Savinova has been stripped of her 800m title and banned until 2019 after being found guilty of doping.

A Cas statement read: "On the basis of clear evidence, including the evidence derived from her biological passport (ABP), Mariya Savinova is found to have been engaged in using doping from 26 July 2010 (the eve of the European Championship in Barcelona) through to 19 August 2013 (the day after the World Championship in Moscow). (see http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_4481.pdf)

Savinova is now the second Russian finalist from that race to have been retrospectively banned - after Yelena Arzhakova - while a third - bronze medallist Ekaterina Poistogova - is also under investigation for doping.

 

[BullsFan22]

A MUST WATCH:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F04etMA6bgk

"Over 2000 American athletes had positive drug tests, including Carl Lewis, and they were covered up."

 

[veganrob]

A MUST WATCH:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F04etMA6bgk

"Over 2000 American athletes had positive drug tests, including Carl Lewis, and they were covered up."

Not only that, Lewis claims he was able to still compete at that high level because he went to a vegan diet. In fact there is a guy, Doug Graham that tries to take credit in his book for Lewis. Bull ***.

 

[Nomad]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/38931007
London 2012 gold medallist Mariya Savinova has been stripped of her 800m title and banned until 2019 after being found guilty of doping.

A Cas statement read: "On the basis of clear evidence, including the evidence derived from her biological passport (ABP), Mariya Savinova is found to have been engaged in using doping from 26 July 2010 (the eve of the European Championship in Barcelona) through to 19 August 2013 (the day after the World Championship in Moscow). (see http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_4481.pdf)

Savinova is now the second Russian finalist from that race to have been retrospectively banned - after Yelena Arzhakova - while a third - bronze medallist Ekaterina Poistogova - is also under investigation for doping.

Savinova crashed & burned big-time on this as her 800m Empire has come crumbling down, Lol. Not only does she lose gold from London, but gold from the 2011 WC and silver from the 2013 WC. And her time from the 2011 WC, which is 22nd all-time fastest (1:55.87), will be rescinded. Also in 2011, she won 9 out of 10 races that season.

And in London, 3 Russians had made the final (Savinova, Poistogova & Arzhakova), with Savinova annihilating a World-class field. Arzhakova finished 6th but was sanction on a ABP violation and Poistogova still has the bronze, though WADA's calling for a lifetime ban (stay tuned). The only major medal Savinova can keep in her trophy case is the gold from the 2010 WIC, though to Jenny Meadow's disgust:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/feb/11/jenny-meadows-medals-russian-doping

And here's Savinova's gold "losing" performance from London - insane as she smoked Semenya & Jelimo by over 20 meters:

https://youtu.be/vHU9OFSwmEs

 

[yaco]

I have my reservations about the Biological Passport which is in effect scientific, experts playing around and analysing blood passports - What confuses me is you have retesting of samples which of course with updated testing equipment can pick up the use of prohibited substances - Now that is as clear as water - But why wouldn't a passport violation be picked up at the time - I need someone with more scientifice expertise to help.

 

[Catwhoorg]

In simple terms, every time a sample is added to the passport data, the limits get updated.

To use the JTL case as an example, the high readings of his first sample(s) didn't trigger anything* until there was enough data to show that it/they were outliers.


*under previous non-passport guidelines, the test taken at the world championship road race would have had a high enough off score to be worthy of investigation right there.


Add to that scientific explanation, the political angle of just not looking at some people, and others being in the spotlight and under scrutiny.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

Yaco,

you are confusing tests. A biopassport test requires blood samples. The IAAF does almost none of those. The samples they are retesting are frozen urine samples, not related to the bio-passport in anyway.

Under the worst conditions, the retests find things that were found at the time of the test but not sanctioned. We know now IAAF officials would then demand bribes for never testing someone positive.

At this point, testing seems to be an opportunity to demand bribes. Coe knows nothing. At all.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Yaco,

you are confusing tests. A biopassport test requires blood samples. The IAAF does almost none of those. The samples they are retesting are frozen urine samples, not related to the bio-passport in anyway.

Under the worst conditions, the retests find things that were found at the time of the test but not sanctioned. We know now IAAF officials would then demand bribes for never testing someone positive.

At this point, testing seems to be an opportunity to demand bribes. Coe knows nothing. At all.

Well the link in the thread states Savinova was done for ABP irregularities.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

Well the link in the thread states Savinova was done for ABP irregularities.

Haha. That tells you the IAAF COMPLETELY ignored her irregularities the first time around. What a joke.

How many more irregularities have they let pass?

 

[Nomad]

Re: Re:

Yaco,

you are confusing tests. A biopassport test requires blood samples. The IAAF does almost none of those. The samples they are retesting are frozen urine samples, not related to the bio-passport in anyway.

Under the worst conditions, the retests find things that were found at the time of the test but not sanctioned. We know now IAAF officials would then demand bribes for never testing someone positive.

At this point, testing seems to be an opportunity to demand bribes. Coe knows nothing. At all.

Well the link in the thread states Savinova was done for ABP irregularities.

There's a lot on Savinova in the McLaren report. Per the ARD recordings, she discusses her use of the steriod oxandrolone and other PEDs, along with the effective doses, glow times & and who to pay off to avert a positive test. In fact, the report concludes that "Ms. Savinova-
Farsonova has an in-depth knowledge of doping regimes, dosages, physiological effects
of doping and new PEDs."

On her ABP; from the report it sounds like that after the ARD documentary WADA went back and examined her profile where the steriod module appeared normal, but the hematological module showed anomalies:

wada_independent_commission_report_1_en.pdf

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Yaco,

you are confusing tests. A biopassport test requires blood samples. The IAAF does almost none of those. The samples they are retesting are frozen urine samples, not related to the bio-passport in anyway.

Under the worst conditions, the retests find things that were found at the time of the test but not sanctioned. We know now IAAF officials would then demand bribes for never testing someone positive.

At this point, testing seems to be an opportunity to demand bribes. Coe knows nothing. At all.

Well the link in the thread states Savinova was done for ABP irregularities.

There's a lot on Savinova in the McLaren report. Per the ARD recordings, she discusses her use of the steriod oxandrolone and other PEDs, along with the effective doses, glow times & and who to pay off to avert a positive test. In fact, the report concludes that "Ms. Savinova-
Farsonova has an in-depth knowledge of doping regimes, dosages, physiological effects
of doping and new PEDs."

On her ABP; from the report it sounds like that after the ARD documentary WADA went back and examined her profile where the steriod module appeared normal, but the hematological module showed anomalies:

wada_independent_commission_report_1_en.pdf

That's fine - I still have my reservations about the accuracy of ABP profiles - There have been a few cases where the cases have been thrown out at Anti-Doping Tribunals.