Doping In Athletics

[wansteadimp]

Surely, the point of this is that advertisers/broadcasters aren't willing to pay the big bucks if no records are being broken. Easiest way around that is to find an excuse to expunge them all and trouser the extra cash.

Its not like sports administrators haven't done things in the past purely to line their own pockets.

 

[meat puppet]

Record book mingling is a shameful attempt at keeping the cake (pretending athletics has been cleans) and eating it too (having world records constantly broken).

The dope fest called sub 2hr mara attempt beckons and here' tucker's take from pacing angle (dope implications have been discussed before). I agree with him that actually breaking the barrier is highly unlikely - the 2.03s are already full genius stuff and done quite recently. Also find it a reasonable guess that a DNF is as likely as the best case scenario, ie 2.02 for kipchoge.

Would be interesting to see the first graph disaggregated for per and post epo eras, split roughly from 1990 or so. But even as it stands, one could hazard a guess that blood doping (refills and epo, say, post 1990)has allowed for a more even pacing strategy than in prior eras.

https://sportsscientists.com/2017/05/sub-2-hour-marathon-attempt-pacing-strategy/

To put a cherry on top:

"Here's a nutty statistic ahead of the #breaking2 attempt: In the 90 fastest winning marathons ever, a 5km segment faster than 14:13 has only been run 10 times. That's 10 out of 720 segments for those 90 race winners. The target pace to break 2 hours this weekend is 14:13 per 5km. They'll have to average for a marathon what has only been done for a single 5km segment ten times in the fastest 90 marathon victories ever."

 

[idunno]

Suspicious timing regarding the records-four days before the start of the diamond league season. Some free publicity for something that's never going to happen.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Record book mingling is a shameful attempt at keeping the cake (pretending athletics has been cleans) and eating it too (having world records constantly broken).

The dope fest called sub 2hr mara attempt beckons and here' tucker's take from pacing angle (dope implications have been discussed before). I agree with him that actually breaking the barrier is highly unlikely - the 2.03s are already full genius stuff and done quite recently. Also find it a reasonable guess that a DNF is as likely as the best case scenario, ie 2.02 for kipchoge.

Would be interesting to see the first graph disaggregated for per and post epo eras, split roughly from 1990 or so. But even as it stands, one could hazard a guess that blood doping (refills and epo, say, post 1990)has allowed for a more even pacing strategy than in prior eras.

https://sportsscientists.com/2017/05/sub-2-hour-marathon-attempt-pacing-strategy/

To put a cherry on top:

"Here's a nutty statistic ahead of the #breaking2 attempt: In the 90 fastest winning marathons ever, a 5km segment faster than 14:13 has only been run 10 times. That's 10 out of 720 segments for those 90 race winners. The target pace to break 2 hours this weekend is 14:13 per 5km. They'll have to average for a marathon what has only been done for a single 5km segment ten times in the fastest 90 marathon victories ever."

Have their hero bolt do the marathon. Eat chicken nuggets before hand like he always does.

He'll break the 2 hrs and we'll know its clean because a) hes tall which is better than doping and b) he doesn't look like schwarzeneger so he must be clean

 

[Singer01]

Of all the records which may be expunged, which are you most happy about, and which saddens you?

For me it is a tie between the women's 400m and 800m for most happy about, utterly implausible.
Saddest, the men's long jump, whether you think anyone was clean or not, that competition was the athletics version of Lemond v Fignon, utterly compelling.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Happiest about Flo-Jo, especially the 100m

Saddest, Jonathan Edwards and his triple jump. His technique was usually just so spot on. A text book jumper.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Happiest about Flo-Jo, especially the 100m

Saddest, Jonathan Edwards and his triple jump. His technique was usually just so spot on. A text book jumper.

Edwards is omerta through and through. Not disappointed he is losing it.

 

[yaco]

The one record that would never be beaten was Marita Koch's 400 metres from 1985 - I always wonder if their was a timing malfunction - Her time was from another planet.

 

[BullsFan22]

I think they should only take away Paula's record, just to see her reaction.

I think they should keep Ben Johnson's record, and give back his gold from Seoul. Just about everyone in that final was doping/was later caught and/or suspended, or have been suspected to, and in the case of Carl Lewis, the man that finished second and later was upgraded to first, several positive tests just that summer alone!

 

[oldcrank]

Re:

Of all the records which may be expunged, which are you most happy about, and which saddens you?

For me it is a tie between the women's 400m and 800m for most happy about, utterly implausible.
Saddest, the men's long jump, whether you think anyone was clean or not, that competition was the athletics version of Lemond v Fignon, utterly compelling.

One of my ex-clubmates who is still winning medals at the World Masters
and named her only daughter Stefka might be bummed about the women's
high jump...but I'd not be too disappointed if Blanka was given the WR.

There are plenty of Olympic records that would be affected if this change
included Olympic records too...haven't heard/read that it will though.

 

[JetSet]

Re: Re:

Of all the records which may be expunged, which are you most happy about, and which saddens you?

For me it is a tie between the women's 400m and 800m for most happy about, utterly implausible.
Saddest, the men's long jump, whether you think anyone was clean or not, that competition was the athletics version of Lemond v Fignon, utterly compelling.

One of my ex-clubmates who is still winning medals at the World Masters
and named her only daughter Stefka might be bummed about the women's
high jump...but I'd not be too disappointed if Blanka was given the WR.

There are plenty of Olympic records that would be affected if this change
included Olympic records too...haven't heard/read that it will though.te/quote]

You would have to reset Olympic records as you can't have an Olympic Record better than a World Record. In fact you would have to reset just about everything, all area records, championship records, course records, masters records, junior records, anything that comes under the IAAF, at least that's the way I see it.

Pete

 

[hoolaparara]

Well the only realistic way you can do this is if everytime you create a test for a new drug you disqualify any records for which you cannot retrospectively test that drug.

 

[buckle]

I suspect Al Oerter was using steroids in the 1950's (first gold medal 1956). The American sprinters of the 1960's must also be considered suspicious given the symbiotic links between track and field and professional football. Jim Hines (1968 100m gold) was the classic example of this.

 

[Benotti69]

There really is no point* in creating a year zero for WRs or ORs.

Testing is still a joke so it is not like those competing now are clean.

The only point I can see is PR, a marketing campaign to give the impression these athletes competing now are clean and this is believable.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

There really is no point* in creating a year zero for WRs or ORs.

Testing is still a joke so it is not like those competing now are clean.

The only point I can see is PR, a marketing campaign to give the impression these athletes competing now are clean and this is believable.

Bang on point.

 

[The Hitch]

Yep.

For me the world record is the fastest a human being has ever gone. Cheating (most of the time) or not.

As much as I do (like anyone with any basic morals) do not like paula, she run that 2.15. That's the fastest anyone went. Others were also doping. Its the world record.

 

[Cloxxki]

For new generations, more attainable records (with today's WADA code and enforcement) will lure athletes less strongly to the dark side. Some national records I am happy to see go. One in particular set at the dirtiest of OG's, before the 50% rule, before EPO detection. Hardly anyone has come close since. Recently only an unbeatable hermafrodite, dipped under it just slightly. Despite a quarter century of track and shoe development, not to speak of deeply more advanced nutricional and training knowledge. Such records, even if set by a freak of nature rather than the garden variety doper (much more prevalent), is best reset.
New WR attempts can and should be supported by sponsors.

New national, European and world records need to be tested with a multitude of samples, sent to multiple labs. The labs should be a lottery of sorts perhaps. In a age of $1500 Bicoin, surely someone can come up with a reliable randomizer. Records deserve more scrutiny. And back testing. So not just an A and B sample. Not stored in one place. Proper scrutiny.

 

[Benotti69]

Paula Radcliffe in the dailymail now trying to claim that the test results from her marathon record run were faulty. She must have heard JV's excuse about Machine calibration error!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3337824/Paula-Radcliffe-explains-innocence-blood-doping-allegations-says-testing-fault-unusual-results.html

How many times now has she changed her excuse from dehydration, altitude to MCE?

She is as crazy as Armstrong!

 

[silvergrenade]

Kipchoge might just break the 2 hour marathon barrier.
This will be huge!
We'll know in about 54 mins

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Re:

Kipchoge might just break the 2 hour marathon barrier.
This will be huge!
We'll know in about 54 mins

While I'm thoroughly disenchanted with all the (ongoing) doping going on in track&field you got my attention - I like how at the end of this article they are saying:

“Science has helped realize many things: electricity, cars, planes, mobiles, cameras, satellites,” the 27-year-old Desisa said. “It’s how we created airplanes based on how birds fly ... So science may realize (this project) as well.”

http://www.gazettenet.com/Kipchoge-leads-attempt-to-run-sub-2-hour-marathon-9704140

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Wow, dude missed the sub 2 by about 25 seconds. (He looks so old, though, for a 32 year old. I'm sure Nike has no qualms about running him down into the ground.)

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

Wow, dude missed the sub 2 by about 25 seconds. (He looks so old, though, for a 32 year old. I'm sure Nike has no qualms about running him down into the ground.)

I'm the kind f fan (of cycling and athletics) that separates my appreciation of the race from the appreciation of the sport (by which I mean, I love to youtube races from 200x, and raise a stink over dopers now).

That was incredible.

That was INCREDIBLE!

That would be like a Nike set-up, using it's best "equipped" athletes to go 34' up Alpe. Yeah, the boost is there, but everyone who has ever ridden uphill can find something incredible from watching someone, anyone, get at it in a way that defies all expectations.

I don't think I'm doing a good job explaining myself, but my point is, that when I watch sports, I watch for a competition between the most talented, well-trained, savvy individuals... who I can admire for getting that the right way.

I;m sacrificing one out of four to enjoy the highest level of cycling or athletics? Ehh, if they're going to run under 2 hours, or climb whatever mountain in whatever time, there's still a lot of pleasure to be had.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Kipchoge might just break the 2 hour marathon barrier.
This will be huge!
We'll know in about 54 mins

While I'm thoroughly disenchanted with all the (ongoing) doping going on in track&field you got my attention - I like how at the end of this article they are saying:

“Science has helped realize many things: electricity, cars, planes, mobiles, cameras, satellites,” the 27-year-old Desisa said. “It’s how we created airplanes based on how birds fly ... So science may realize (this project) as well.”

http://www.gazettenet.com/Kipchoge-leads-attempt-to-run-sub-2-hour-marathon-9704140

It was an amazing effort.
His pacing was spot on: https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/860741899912699904

We should do something like this in cycling: up Angliru or Alp d'Huez!

 

[meat puppet]

His drafting a pace car was even more spot on. This explains the improvement almost entirely to me.

Now, was the attempt subject to any sort of testing? Honest question. My understanding is that it was not an IAAF event. So a bag or two slammed in before are not out of the question.

 

[Singer01]

potential new WR in the Javelin if they do wipe old records. The cameraman nearly got taken out.