Doping in Austria

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Now, I was uncertain whether I should bring this up and I'm not sure how far this has been discussed already, but what do you think of the fact that Roglic and Pogacar are doing so extremely well? I have nothing against them personally and there is no evidence whatsoever, but since there have obviously been connections between the Aderlass-guys and Slovenian cycling... and Slovenia being such a small country... and the Erzen link... Now maybe cycling has become extremely popular in Slovenia or maybe it's due to the sportive structures. But I can't help it, my doubt is a bit bigger than normal. Maybe some of you who have deeper insights can help me out.
 
The manufacturer, Sigma also makes derivative versions from other animals. So while you're cheating with a water-add blood booster go full HORSE and get really fast.
We can finally turn a donkey into a horse. Or even ... a dolphin!!! Wouldn't a dolphin be totally cute, squealing its way through interviews? "What's that Flipper, it was really hard out there but you just didn't have the legs? Well, yes, it's hard to argue with that.,"
 
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Merck is the manufacturer in Germany Oldermanish , but they did buy Sigma-Aldrich a while back.

What I don't understand is the prosecutor back in Nov 2019 said they discovered this HG powder and handed the names to UCI/CADF, but then yesterday reports that a Croatian supplier of it to Schmidt cooperated after being arrested last month revealing the existence of the same HG Powder? I can only assume they knew what the powder was and what it did last year, but not the manufacture/product name until last month?
 
I will say that the timing seems a little strange to me cause I don't really think 2016 and 2017 had many crazy performances.
Could mean the stuff doesn't work?

Question for science geeks: how close is this to Actovegin? (Obvs one is bovine and the other human, I get that, but part from that...) The CN article draws a parallel with Hemopure (also bovine), saying it didn't do anything for Rasmussen, and Actovegin didn't actually have much uptake (I think LA has claimed Festina used it).
 
Could mean the stuff doesn't work?

Question for science geeks: how close is this to Actovegin? (Obvs one is bovine and the other human, I get that, but part from that...) The CN article draws a parallel with Hemopure (also bovine), saying it didn't do anything for Rasmussen, and Actovegin didn't actually have much uptake (I think LA has claimed Festina used it).
Nah it's probably more that they need to refine the usage and it needs to become more widespread before the overall performances in a whole group take off. It's probably the riders who use it properly early that benefit the most before the level evens out again
 
Could mean the stuff doesn't work?

Question for science geeks: how close is this to Actovegin? (Obvs one is bovine and the other human, I get that, but part from that...) The CN article draws a parallel with Hemopure (also bovine), saying it didn't do anything for Rasmussen, and Actovegin didn't actually have much uptake (I think LA has claimed Festina used it).
It's the same type of drug in that they're all hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers (HBOC) synthetic blood, instead of Perfluorocarbon-based (PFC) which is what Gianetti took when he collapsed. So they're different.

No idea how it differs from the other brands of HBOC though, chemically I mean. Not sure if each one is so similar that they can be traced via the same doping control either (the article says that specific, non-standard testing is needed to discover HBOCs).
 
Schmidt's trial begins next week, CADF testing for
It's the same type of drug in that they're all hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers (HBOC) synthetic blood, instead of Perfluorocarbon-based (PFC) which is what Gianetti took when he collapsed. So they're different.

No idea how it differs from the other brands of HBOC though, chemically I mean. Not sure if each one is so similar that they can be traced via the same doping control either (the article says that specific, non-standard testing is needed to discover HBOCs).
HBOCs are tested for, but only in the event of ABP anomalies and targeted testing via non-analytical evidence. This is why HBOCs are favoured over say EPO I would assume because so long as your ABP is in check (via microdosing it's claimed), unlike say EPO, HBOCs are not actually looked for by the WADA labs.

Of 2018's 2063 samples tested for HBOCs across all sports, 182 of those samples came from athletes in-competition blood samples and it seems nearly only ever tested for in Polish & Australian WADA labs, so perhaps only a minority of labs have the expertise. It was described as a very expensive test somewhere I read.

Total HBOC tests within road cycling was 3 from in competition samples & 78 from out of competition samples so I think safe to say only 3 riders have ever been tested for HBOCs across all of road cycling in 2018 and risk even out of compeition must be very low outside Poland & Austrlia.
 
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What sort of program is Dominic Thiem on? Even more ridiculous than the one Thomas Muster was on?
Stamina isn't really out of this world, he's obviously a strong boy with amazing technique for hitting hard, and he isn't really one of the fastest guy on Tour.

Yeah he's one of the most physical players but I woudln't really know what really stands out. It's hard for me to guess how much pace is down to technique and how much to sheer strength.

I will say his improvement in results IMO is mostly technical. He was also really physically strong long before he started making Slam finals, and he did get gassed badly against Nadal at the 2019 RG final.
 
Not really the topic here, but I still don't want to let this pass completely: Thiem said there is no doping in top tennis, he would vouch for every top player he knows. That is ridiculous. And it's what makes me believe he dopes himself, because he's not stupid and should know there is doping in tennis and it helps, just like in pretty much every other sport. Even in chess and shooting there's doping. So if he does not dope, he could say "I don't dope, I swear, and I can't imagine my friends doing it" or something like that. But someone who denies there is doping in top level tennis, who says that it does not help certain player types, and that it's all just contamination, has no credibility for me.
 
Okay, again about Pogacar and Roglic: I don't want to make accusations. I would just like possible explanations. Can somebody explain what might favour Slovenians or what their system is like, so that two of them get to the top of the TdF?
 
Okay, again about Pogacar and Roglic: I don't want to make accusations. I would just like possible explanations. Can somebody explain what might favour Slovenians or what their system is like, so that two of them get to the top of the TdF?
Same doctor/PED?

Climbing times are through the roof this year, which means there's something new that's persistent throughout the top 10 of the GC and probably even wider than that. That said, Roglic and Pogacar would then need an additional advantage to be on top of these guys.
 
Not really the topic here, but I still don't want to let this pass completely: Thiem said there is no doping in top tennis, he would vouch for every top player he knows. That is ridiculous. And it's what makes me believe he dopes himself, because he's not stupid and should know there is doping in tennis and it helps, just like in pretty much every other sport. Even in chess and shooting there's doping. So if he does not dope, he could say "I don't dope, I swear, and I can't imagine my friends doing it" or something like that. But someone who denies there is doping in top level tennis, who says that it does not help certain player types, and that it's all just contamination, has no credibility for me.
I'm pretty sure tennis is abolutely rife with it, and I'd imagine there's a lot of HGH use in juniors.
 
Not saying Thiem isn't talented or that he didn't have the physical attributes, but his game is quite grinding. He hits every ball like it's the last. I've watched some of his practice sessions and he's treating those like matches, grinding away and straining.
 
Aderlass trial starts today:
BERLIN (AFP) - The murky business of doping in sport goes under the microscope on Wednesday (Sept 16) when the trial of a German doctor accused of masterminding an international blood-doping network dismantled last year opens in Munich.

Sports physician Mark Schmidt, 42, from Erfurt, and four co-defendants who allegedly aided him, are accused of helping at least two dozen athletes undergo blood transfusions to boost performance illicitly from "the end of 2011 at the latest", according to state prosecutors.

"One must not forget, this is a business with a hard currency - money," sports lawyer Michael Lehner said ahead of the trial. We are not dealing with an athlete who dopes himself, but with the business of doping."

So far, 23 cyclists and skiers from eight countries are known to be involved, but more names could emerge.

"More can - and should - come out than what we already know," Lehner added. "There are certainly more athletes involved, the network will have been bigger."
 
Same doctor/PED?

Climbing times are through the roof this year, which means there's something new that's persistent throughout the top 10 of the GC and probably even wider than that. That said, Roglic and Pogacar would then need an additional advantage to be on top of these guys.
Climbing times could be faster because of tactics and consistency of equipment, too. Tactically everyone's been sitting this Tour until the climbs and then they've been led to the launching point by JV. That and almost all climbers have turned into spinners, save for Pierre Roland and Fortunato. The consistency of the lead pack is evident and gaps are only appearing at the ends of climbs. That's minus the sick and injured of course.

Suggesting Roglic and Poga have the same doctorin' would be too convenient and professionally stupid for them. I would doubt it....
 

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