Doping in other sports?

[sugarman]

A lengthy piece from SI on Tyson Gays positive test, they speculate that it was DHEA or testosterone.

http://m.si.com/3862340/cheat-sheet-the-file-on-tyson-gay/

Interesting that they speculate that testosterone was given as a homeopathic remedy even though it's not a homeopathic.

Completely unrelated but I don't know how this bodes for the Oscar pistorius case as they tried to say that the testosterone they found their was a homeopathic.

From a quick read i think the article misunderstands what homeopathy is.
Testosterone, or any substance, can be homeopathic. 30X on the label just means the testosterone is supposed to be diluted to a ratio of 10^-30.
Obviously if Gay tested positive from such a solution it wasn't actually homeopathic.

Homeopathic testosterone is an interesting moral question though, is it ok to use something that statistically will have no molecules of testosterone in it, on the basis that it will improve your performance like normal T would.....

 

[More Strides than Rides]

The letsrun doping poll results arefinally up

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/02/world-record-results-doping/

The trend is that the older world records are more suspicious. It is frustrating the level of niavettie the public has, as they are collectively the most important stakeholder in sports.

 

[roundabout]

Ter Mors

 

[Bavarianrider]

Seems like Dutch speed skaters took over Rabobanks left medicine.

 

[meat puppet]

Seems like Dutch speed skaters took over Rabobanks left medicine.

well, when you have four skaters in a race, and they finish 1-2-3-4, then judging by the xc thread it's probably about superb blade sharpening, no? (granted, the NL are a speed skating giant, but still!)

in other news, USA underperformed so badly. what's the story with that? super bad form on every athlete, politics or WTF?

 

[classicomano]

I think it also has to do with the competition taking a nosedive the last couple of years, it seems the Dutch are the only ones left that really give an **** about speed skating. Having said that, Ter Mors is pretty unbelievable.

 

[the sceptic]

I know nothing about speed skating but the dutch taking like 90% of the medals is extremely suspect.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I think it also has to do with the competition taking a nosedive the last couple of years, it seems the Dutch are the only ones left that really give an **** about speed skating. Having said that, Ter Mors is pretty unbelievable.

They could just transfer the result from the Dutch nats and go party instead.

 

[The Hitch]

The letsrun doping poll results arefinally up

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/02/world-record-results-doping/

The trend is that the older world records are more suspicious. It is frustrating the level of niavettie the public has, as they are collectively the most important stakeholder in sports.

I think you mean the human intelligence index poll.

It shows that 56% of people who have visited the letsrun website are total idiots beyond help.

 

[Lanark]

I'm sure the Dutch are doping, but I highly doubt they started two weeks ago. Most of these guys and girls have been well paid and succesfull pro's for years. They, and most of their competition, are unlikely to be clean.

I don't think the reason of this sudden succesfull domination should be sought in doping, that is more a constant. A lot of the competition (Russia, USA, even Canada) clearly sucking by even their own standard seems a better start to an explanation.

 

[classicomano]

I know nothing about speed skating but the dutch taking like 90% of the medals is extremely suspect.

Speed skating isnt a big sport and the Dutch pump a ****load of money into it giving the athletes all the best facilities and trainers, while pretty much every other country abandoned the sport, leaving their athletes scraping by.

 

[The Hitch]

I know nothing about speed skating but the dutch taking like 90% of the medals is extremely suspect.

To be fair speed skating is the national sport in the Netherlands and they follow all the events year round so them winning all the medals is in and of itself as suspicious as Belgium dominating cyclocross.

Of course no nation can ever be suficiently strong at a sport to overcome doping once it gets introduced, but they probably would be as dominant in a clean world as they are in a doping one.

 

[Afrank]

Speed skating isnt a big sport and the Dutch pump a ****load of money into it giving the athletes all the best facilities and trainers, while pretty much every other country abandoned the sport, leaving their athletes scraping by.

can't help but thing of how much it sounds like GB with cycling the past couple years, hmm...

 

[Pentacycle]

can't help but thing of how much it sounds like GB with cycling the past couple years, hmm...

More like track cycling, where they left but crumbs for the other countries.

 

[The Hitch]

can't help but thing of how much it sounds like GB with cycling the past couple years, hmm...

Gb pumped money into track cycling and ended up dominating Road cycling.

Maybe a few years from now the Dutch will start dominating Ski Jumping and point to all the money they invested in Speed Skating as the reason.

 

[Afrank]

Yes, track cycling was mostly what I was thinking, just wrote cycling in general because they've also ended up doing very well in road in addition to track.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yes, track cycling was mostly what I was thinking, just wrote cycling in general because they've also ended up doing very well in road in addition to track.

I think the thing that makes the British cycling not really match up to the Dutch speed-skating is that the areas of British cycling success on the road do not necessarily match up to the areas you might expect to be transferable from the track success. Compare that to the Australians, where their track success has led to the production of a number of talented time triallists and sprinters - Bobridge, the Meyers, Hepburn, Matthews, Durbridge and so on. These riders did not necessarily all come from the track, but you can see immediately how track knowledge can be applied to benefit them. Also short-track speed-skating has accounted for just one bronze out of the Dutch medal haul; they have 5 golds, 5 silvers and 6 bronzes in the long-track. Which makes sense, because similar to the reasons why the UK put so much focus on track cycling, it is an area with a lot of Olympic medals on offer, but without a huge competition field. The Dutch love the sport anyway, why not focus the efforts on the more controllable long-track skating than the chaotic short-track skating, where results can be a lot more random and unpredictable due to accidents?

I suppose you could try comparing it to cross-country skiing, at least in freestyle. If the Dutch speed-skating level led to a bit of funding going into other wintersports, a few athletes moving to Austria or Norway or something, strapping on XC skis and turning into reasonable sprinters in that (since the physical motions required are not totally dissimilar in skate and would not require such a complete change of training that other sports might), it wouldn't be so strange as if we suddenly found a bunch of random Dutch XC skiers who started winning the Holmenkollen 50k/30k and dropping the likes of Olsson, Legkov and Bjørgen like scrubs, at which point I think we'd have the alarms going like the intro to "Time" on full volume in Dolby.

 

[sniper]

Suspicious currently is the Dutch domination of both men and women speed skating. Dutch have always dominated the mens game, but not so much the womens game, where Germany used to be dominant.

edit: it's not only suspicious, it's boring as hell.
Would be good if IOC decides to take out speed skating. what a farce.

 

[hiero2]

Suspicious currently is the Dutch domination of both men and women speed skating. Dutch have always dominated the mens game, but not so much the womens game, where Germany used to be dominant.

edit: it's not only suspicious, it's boring as hell.
Would be good if IOC decides to take out speed skating. what a farce.

Huh? Do what? We must have been watching different Olympics. I do recall China and Korea being in there, pretty big-time.

 

[Freddythefrog]

I missed this. He "kept on the straight and narrow"

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...european-200m-record-holder-dies-8544909.html

"If I hadn't kept on the straight and narrow, I doubt I would have lasted so long. Doping may create grand results on one level, but it certainly doesn't bring longevity to an athlete's career." said the man who died at the age of 60 and confessed to the use of HGH

This doesn't look good
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport...-former-coach-to-sue-over-drug-claim-1.654033

and have a look at the quote here
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/****-fights-drugs-claim-1580224.html

"This story is nine years out of date. The matter of drug abuse in the Seventies and early Eighties was dealt with through the independent inquiry set up by the sport in 1987. As a direct result, we introduced some of the toughest testing and punishment measure.

"Our out-of competition-testing is the envy of the athletics world, and should be the envy of other sports in Britain."

Yes and then at Seoul in 1988 Linford tested positive but was let off. Hmmm.

 

[Freddythefrog]

Here is what the good doctor thought

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...O5AAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kacMAAAAIBAJ&pg=2127,4118736

Sadly no longer with us
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-18656640.html

 

[Freddythefrog]

Play the game

http://www.playthegame.org/knowledg...ome-issues-for-medical-practitioners-922.html

"The Drug Abuse Enquiry Report accepted that there were doctors in Britain who were involved in "monitoring athletes on a regular basis in circumstances which can only be construed as checking the effect upon those athletes of the drugs they have been taking to aid their performances" (Coni, 1988, para. B20). The report concluded:

"We have evidence of a few doctors prepared to prescribe banned drugs to athletes Medical support arises more often, though, on the basis of the doctor who says that, whilst he would never advocate the taking of drugs for the sake of athletic achievement, it is his responsibility if an athlete has made that decision for himself to monitor the athletes health to ensure so far as the doctor can that he does so without physical harm. Since availability of banned drugs presents few problems, the end result from the standpoint of drug use by athletes - that medical advice is available for those who care to look for it - is of course the same, whether the doctor is prescribing, or simply monitoring the effects. We are also told that test centres are readily to hand at which a British athlete who has been using banned drugs in training can check in advance of competition that his urine sample will no longer disclose the presence of the banned drug. We are told that such centres are available in London, in Birmingham and in Edinburgh, and no doubt there are others (para. B21).

"We also now know - though this was not revealed until a Sunday Times investigation several years later - that at about the same time that Charlie Francis and Dr Jamie Astaphan were supervising the drug programme of Ben Johnson, Dr Jimmy Ledingham, who was the doctor to the British Olympic men's team between 1979 and 1987, was prescribing steroids to British athletes and also offering advice on how to avoid detection; the same report also revealed that Britain's national director of coaching from 1979 to 1994 had "turned a blind eye" to athletes who had told him they were taking steroids (Sunday Times, 29 October 1995). "

So how did Frank **** get on with his legal case against Drew Mc Master ? BAF didn't hold an enquiry.

 

[del1962]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...european-200m-record-holder-dies-8544909.html

"If I hadn't kept on the straight and narrow, I doubt I would have lasted so long. Doping may create grand results on one level, but it certainly doesn't bring longevity to an athlete's career." said the man who died at the age of 60 and confessed to the use of HGH

This doesn't look good
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport...-former-coach-to-sue-over-drug-claim-1.654033

and have a look at the quote here
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/****-fights-drugs-claim-1580224.html

"This story is nine years out of date. The matter of drug abuse in the Seventies and early Eighties was dealt with through the independent inquiry set up by the sport in 1987. As a direct result, we introduced some of the toughest testing and punishment measure.

"Our out-of competition-testing is the envy of the athletics world, and should be the envy of other sports in Britain."

Yes and then at Seoul in 1988 Linford tested positive but was let off. Hmmm.

I missed it too, Mennea and HGH, I wonder if it contributed to his early death

I remember Mennea racing, from meomry he swept up a lot of europeen titles in the early eighties

 

[del1962]

http://www.playthegame.org/knowledg...ome-issues-for-medical-practitioners-922.html

"The Drug Abuse Enquiry Report accepted that there were doctors in Britain who were involved in "monitoring athletes on a regular basis in circumstances which can only be construed as checking the effect upon those athletes of the drugs they have been taking to aid their performances" (Coni, 1988, para. B20). The report concluded:

"We have evidence of a few doctors prepared to prescribe banned drugs to athletes Medical support arises more often, though, on the basis of the doctor who says that, whilst he would never advocate the taking of drugs for the sake of athletic achievement, it is his responsibility if an athlete has made that decision for himself to monitor the athletes health to ensure so far as the doctor can that he does so without physical harm. Since availability of banned drugs presents few problems, the end result from the standpoint of drug use by athletes - that medical advice is available for those who care to look for it - is of course the same, whether the doctor is prescribing, or simply monitoring the effects. We are also told that test centres are readily to hand at which a British athlete who has been using banned drugs in training can check in advance of competition that his urine sample will no longer disclose the presence of the banned drug. We are told that such centres are available in London, in Birmingham and in Edinburgh, and no doubt there are others (para. B21).

"We also now know - though this was not revealed until a Sunday Times investigation several years later - that at about the same time that Charlie Francis and Dr Jamie Astaphan were supervising the drug programme of Ben Johnson, Dr Jimmy Ledingham, who was the doctor to the British Olympic men's team between 1979 and 1987, was prescribing steroids to British athletes and also offering advice on how to avoid detection; the same report also revealed that Britain's national director of coaching from 1979 to 1994 had "turned a blind eye" to athletes who had told him they were taking steroids (Sunday Times, 29 October 1995). "

So how did Frank **** get on with his legal case against Drew Mc Master ? BAF didn't hold an enquiry.

Andy Norman was an interesting figure in British Athletics at the time

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2007/sep/28/guardianobituaries.obituaries

 

[sniper]

Huh? Do what? We must have been watching different Olympics. I do recall China and Korea being in there, pretty big-time.

being in where?
netherlands is second in the medal table behind germany.
china are ninth.
not normal.
china big, holland small.